Unexplained Ballooning

[Avio]

Anyone encountered sudden unexplained nose-up ballooning tendency on final approach just above rwy threshold? Definitely not ground-effect. Happens like about 1 out of 3 approaches sometimes.

 

Also occasionally encountered sudden sinking near approach end ss if there is a microburst down gust. Weather set at clear.

 

Noticed these issues from past versions and patches, on different computers.

 

Avio

[StandingCow]

Most likely your flaps lowering all the way. You can set them down, but they won't actually come down until your airspeed is low enough.

[Avio]

My landing setup is always quite spot-on, so it is not that.

[GurbY]

Yes, but only on 2.0. As far as I know, it doesn't occur in 1.5.

[Avio]

I am planning to do more flying in 2.0. Is this bug already known and scheduled for fixing anytime soon? Any work-around? Rather annoying.

[BIGNEWY]

Attach a short track showing the issue and we will take a look

[Nu-NRG]

Duplicate here

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2920749#post2920749

[Avio]

It definitely feels like a bug. Noticed this some several patches back, when i used to fly more often in DCS, like maybe last couple of years.

 

For today's session, just before it happened i noticed nose up trim did not seem to have much effect despite putting in much uptrim, then suddenly it just pitch up violently when about to flare.

 

Something to do with rare latent delay in trim input?

[Yurgon]

I've witnessed this in the past as well. Will try to remember to save a track in case it happens again.

 

But I would have thought the issue is well known by now.

[Scaley]

If this is what I think it is it has been extensively reported a few times, but I'm not sure if ED have realised the connection between bits of it yet.

 

Whenever you fly under some objects (wingman, bridge, structure)you will have a pitch down sudden transient. You will likely re-trim the aircraft and continue the flight. On approach to landing at low altitude (which I think is the boundary for ground effect to kick in) you will get that same pitch transient in reverse (nose up). It will only happen on the first approach, so if you go around again then your next landing should be fine.

 

Is that what you are experiencing?

 

See also:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154018

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154325

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154018

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154901

Edited December 8, 2016 by Scaley

[Precog]

Never experienced it. Sorry.

[prionic1]

I am running into the same issue on the latest version of 1.5 as of now. It really throws me off as I'm trying to learn to approach, traffic pattern, land properly now. :/

[escaner]

This has happened to me a lot of times in Caucasus too, and a friend just suffered it last Tuesday. I started a thread about it and someone pointed to this bug report:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154630

 

I don't think ED has acknowledged it though...

 

In my case, I cannot relate it to flying under structures. Under other aircraft, who knows...

[Avio]

Have experienced this for several years now, across different PCs and systems and patches. Only in the A10C, not in other add-ons. Pretty sure there's a bug somewhere. Rather frustrating as landing is always a nice moment to savour.

 

Will the developer help look into fixing this soon?

[Boris]

 

Someone made this video of this phenomenon over a year ago. Disappointing that nothing has changed...

[Bersagliere81]

I would say it is the flaps lowering when the bird gets the appropriate speed (and not when commanded to), but that video shows a more dramatic pitch up

 

(just for noobs like me who used to watch a lot of videos trying to learn something, at 0:11 it is not a speed indicator)

[Snoopy]

I would say it is the flaps lowering when the bird gets the appropriate speed (and not when commanded to),

 

Absolutely has nothing to do with flaps extending, this happens to me almost every sortie and my flaps are down and extended long before I'm close to the ground.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Snoopy

[metzger]

I noticed (don't know if it is a bug) when you put master arm from armed to safe, pitch goes up.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Nu-NRG]

I noticed (don't know if it is a bug) when you put master arm from armed to safe, pitch goes up.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

Its the PAC system, that you are reffering to.

 

You should not be doimg that on landing anyway.

[Xavven]

at 0:11 it is not a speed indicator

 

You're referring to the AoA indexer I take it? When you are on the backside of the power curve, throttle controls altitude and pitch controls speed. Here's a quote from pg 129 of the DCS A-10C flight manual:

 

The indexer presents the information by displaying illuminated green and yellow symbols; low-speed symbol "\ /", on-speed symbol "circle", and high-speed symbol "/ ". Slightly low/high speed is indicated by the on-speed and low/high speed symbols coming on simultaneously. The AOA indexer lights operate only when the nose gear is down.

[Bersagliere81]

You're referring to the AoA indexer I take it? When you are on the backside of the power curve, throttle controls altitude and pitch controls speed. Here's a quote from pg 129 of the DCS A-10C flight manual:

 

The indexer presents the information by displaying illuminated green and yellow symbols; low-speed symbol "\ /", on-speed symbol "circle", and high-speed symbol "/ ". Slightly low/high speed is indicated by the on-speed and low/high speed symbols coming on simultaneously. The AOA indexer lights operate only when the nose gear is down.

 

I didn't read that part of the manual but I do trust you.

 

However I am pretty sure I have been explained it is only referring to AoA, I can't remember if it was the ingame tutorial or whatever.

It would make sense, as you get the /\ symbol even when you are landed and stopped (it "says" you should raise your nose).

Also, when you make a landing approach, you will see the icon changing according to your nose pitch/dive, not to speed.

 

I'll have a better look on the manual, but so far I am pretty sure it is only about AoA

 

edit:

 

Figure 105.

AoA Index Lights The AoA Indexer is located on the left/front canopy rail beneath the accelerometer gauge, and provides indication of proper landing angle of attack.

The indexer presents the information by displaying illuminated green and yellow symbols; low-speed symbol "\ /", on-speed symbol "circle", and high-speed symbol "/ ". Slightly low/high speed is indicated by the on-speed and low/high speed symbols coming on simultaneously. The AOA indexer lights operate only when the nose gear is down.

 

My guess is "low speed/on speed/high speed" is not related to actual speed, but its attitude on the AoA.

 

I am still convinced speed itself does not relate to that indicator

Edited January 8, 2017 by Bersagliere81

[colyoap]

What does the Aoa indicator have to do with the OP's question? He was right on or close to the target aoa in every landing.

[Yurgon]

I am still convinced speed itself does not relate to that indicator

 

And what would your AoA depend on?

 

I think "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche contains some of the best explanations around. He goes into great detail on AoA, and speed, and elevators, and how it's all deeply connected.

 

On final approach, you want to come in at a certain speed, with a certain rate of descent. The one thing that connects these is the angle of attack - the angle at which the air meets the wing.

 

Of course you could come in at an AoA of 0 degrees while in a 3 degree descent - but that would mean your nose gear would touch down first, and you'd be waaaay too fast.

 

Or you could come in with an insanely high AoA, waaay too slow and just above stall speed, on a 3 degree descent, probably making your tail strike before the main gear touches down.

 

Or you could fly on the doughnut, with proper AoA and on glide path, and that would automatically mean correct speed. As long as you're on the glide path, if your AoA isn't right it means your speed isn't right. Or the other way around, that really doesn't matter. ;)

 

You just can't look at AoA and speed as independent - they're not.

 

What does the Aoa indicator have to do with the OP's question? He was right on or close to the target aoa in every landing.

 

That's actually a good question. ;)

 

I guess the video creator just wanted to point it out, but I don't think it has anything to do with this ballooning effect. :thumbup:

[escaner]

Come on, guys, stop the OT. If you want to talk about the AoA indexer, start a new thread.