Introducing the VPC MongoosT-50

[Buckeye]

Hi Karon,

 

The other cams are indeed no-center and hard-center!

 

The issue with your x-axis is most unfortunate, I'm very sorry to hear about that. As mentioned in our previous correspondence, have a quick chat with our electronics engineer and we'll be able to get to the bottom of this - it'll get sorted don't worry!

 

 

 

 

Remember that faults are not unique to us, on these forums the (very) few issues that do crop up will be most vocal. We've shipped out more units to date than we ever would've imagined at the start of the year - the actual % of issues we've had speaking to existing customers is absolutely minuscule.

 

Of course, as a company we really try to go the extra mile for anyone who does experience any issues and we'll never leave any of our customers in the dark!

 

 

 

Got it, I guess I just missed these similar types of issues popping up so consistently (or at all) with the VKB Gunfighter and any BRD products.

 

I hope QC continues to improve and as I've said before, customer service seems to be great...i would love to get a VPC setup, I just can't bring myself to trust it yet.

 

 

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[Karon]

Got it, I guess I just missed these similar types of issues popping up so consistently (or at all) with the VKB Gunfighter and any BRD products.

 

I hope QC continues to improve and as I've said before, customer service seems to be great...i would love to get a VPC setup, I just can't bring myself to trust it yet.

Probably because they have a very open approach to the community so whenever there's a problem we speak about it because maybe someone else has already found a solution. Also, CS responsiveness is great.

 

That being said, they had issues with rough cams initially but now they fixed it (I posted a picture of mine in post #1482 and they look polished and well made). Several other issues (calibration, for instance) are due to the lack of a software but afaik is coming. Hopefully mine is simply another software issue.

[dburne]

Probably because they have a very open approach to the community so whenever there's a problem we speak about it because maybe someone else has already found a solution. Also, CS responsiveness is great.

 

That being said, they had issues with rough cams initially but now they fixed it (I posted a picture of mine in post #1482 and they look polished and well made). Several other issues (calibration, for instance) are due to the lack of a software but afaik is coming. Hopefully mine is simply another software issue.

 

I hope that is the case - As previously mentioned I just got a new gimbal a couple of weeks ago - serial # 138 and the cams that are in it are certainly rough. I am able to fly with it just fine and have several hours on it now, just one of those things that is a bit of a small aggravation for me.

 

I still recommend the stick so I hope that will not be the case going forward.

[SinusoidDelta]

Hmm I can try adjusting them a little, but really have them about right where I want them. I guess though if it is nothing to worry about I just won't bother, as like I said I of course do not hear it whilst flying.

 

Thanks,

 

I don’t own a Virpil stick but could the clanking you hear/feel be eminating from the springs under load?

 

Sorry if I’m mistaken, I’m not sure how the springs are attached in the Virpil mechanism.

[dburne]

I don’t own a Virpil stick but could the clanking you hear/feel be eminating from the springs under load?

 

Sorry if I’m mistaken, I’m not sure how the springs are attached in the Virpil mechanism.

 

It could be I guess, I really do not know.

[Cyph3r]

Regarding the "clanking" that doesnt have any sort of tactile feel or effect on the input, we've heard from one other user that reseating the springs sorted it out for him!

[dburne]

Regarding the "clanking" that doesnt have any sort of tactile feel or effect on the input, we've heard from one other user that reseating the springs sorted it out for him!

 

If I were to open her up and do that, I would get you also to send me some replacement soft center cams. But after what I went through already with that earlier, just not sure that is a route I want to take at this time.

 

Thanks,

[Cyph3r]

If I were to open her up and do that, I would get you also to send me some replacement soft center cams. But after what I went through already with that earlier, just not sure that is a route I want to take at this time.

 

Thanks,

 

We've already sent you replacement cams by the way ;) :thumbsup: they should be with you end of this week or start of next! I know you didn't explicitly request them, but as you mentioned some roughness on your current cams, we sent some out - at least you'll have the option if you want to take another shot at it.

 

If you do attempt the cam change again, please feel free to contact me beforehand, and I can walk you through it :)

Edited October 23, 2017 by Cyph3r

[dburne]

We've already sent you replacement cams by the way ;) :thumbsup: they should be with you end of this week or start of next! I know you didn't explicitly request them, but as you mentioned some roughness on your current cams, we sent some out - at least you'll have the option if you want to take another shot at it.

 

If you do attempt the cam change again, please feel free to contact me beforehand, and I can walk you through it :)

 

Sounds great, thanks so much!

Still undecided whether to try it, but at least I will have them should I decide to give another go.

 

I tightened up the tension a couple of turns and seems to have stopped the clanking noise in the roll axis for now.

[Buckeye]

We've already sent you replacement cams by the way ;) :thumbsup: they should be with you end of this week or start of next! I know you didn't explicitly request them, but as you mentioned some roughness on your current cams, we sent some out - at least you'll have the option if you want to take another shot at it.

 

If you do attempt the cam change again, please feel free to contact me beforehand, and I can walk you through it :)

 

 

 

This is why, despite the early on QC "issues", I deep down want to be able to get comfortable enough to order a VPC as my next HOTAS (instead of VKB). Outstanding customer service supported by Corporate...whereas I feel VKB corporate is non-existent in terms of customer relations.

 

 

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[dburne]

This is why, despite the early on QC "issues", I deep down want to be able to get comfortable enough to order a VPC as my next HOTAS (instead of VKB). Outstanding customer service supported by Corporate...whereas I feel VKB corporate is non-existent in terms of customer relations.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I can't speak to VKB support, but certainly in my case with Virpil the support has been outstanding and they have been quick to try to resolve any issue.

 

And it really is an awesome setup!

[SinusoidDelta]

This is why, despite the early on QC "issues", I deep down want to be able to get comfortable enough to order a VPC as my next HOTAS (instead of VKB). Outstanding customer service supported by Corporate...whereas I feel VKB corporate is non-existent in terms of customer relations.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I tend to disagree with you there. I own a VKB stick and have nothing but positive things to say about them. They may not be as active on message forums but the end products have had zero quality issues AFAIK. Also, their NA sales distributer and forum member RRhode is very helpful and excellent with communication between customers and VKB headquarters.

[Barefoot Bandit]

If I were to open her up and do that, I would get you also to send me some replacement soft center cams. But after what I went through already with that earlier, just not sure that is a route I want to take at this time.

 

Thanks,

 

I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem with this, I've seen a few people comment, and when I got my new cams and swapped them, I found it quite easy. The hardest thing was finding the written instructions, the rest was pretty straight forward, though, I guess I am used to working on "small things", so could be an experience thing.

 

Z...

[dburne]

I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem with this, I've seen a few people comment, and when I got my new cams and swapped them, I found it quite easy. The hardest thing was finding the written instructions, the rest was pretty straight forward, though, I guess I am used to working on "small things", so could be an experience thing.

 

Z...

 

No, at least in my case it was a locked in cam - could not get screw out, and tried to use brute force which did not end well...

 

I understand they have better and slightly larger screws now.

[Sokol1_br]

No, at least in my case it was a locked in cam - could not get screw out, and tried to use brute force which did not end well...

 

WD-40 do magic in this cases. ;)

[Barefoot Bandit]

No, at least in my case it was a locked in cam - could not get screw out, and tried to use brute force which did not end well...

 

I understand they have better and slightly larger screws now.

 

Ah ok, I understand :thumbup:

 

Z...

[LeCuvier]

T-50 Initialization issue?

 

Quite often when I start a mission I find that none of the buttons on the stick have any effect, while the pitch and roll axes do work. Also, when I open Options -> Controls at the beginning of a session sometimes the data on screen jump up and down, and I cannot test or modifiy control bindings.

In both situations, when I unplug and re-plug the stick (with DCS still running, also in a running mission) it always comes to life and all buttons work ok.

It seems to me that there might be an initialization issue.

@Cyph3r: Do VPS have a firmware update to fix this?

[Cyph3r]

Quite often when I start a mission I find that none of the buttons on the stick have any effect, while the pitch and roll axes do work. Also, when I open Options -> Controls at the beginning of a session sometimes the data on screen jump up and down, and I cannot test or modifiy control bindings.

In both situations, when I unplug and re-plug the stick (with DCS still running, also in a running mission) it always comes to life and all buttons work ok.

It seems to me that there might be an initialization issue.

@Cyph3r: Do VPS have a firmware update to fix this?

 

It seems to be an issue with some USB hubs/motherboards if you leave the stick plugged in during boot up. Of the few that reported the issue, they fixed it by using a powered USB hub, or just plugging the stick in after boot up.

 

So of course the problem may well be fixable with a firmware update but there's a problem:

1. It seems to be a rare issue, I think it's only been reported 4-5 times at most.

2. Unfortunately this issue doesn't effect any of the VPC Team (on various laptops and desktops) so it's very difficult for us to get any real information on the issue.

 

So if you can send an email to support@virpil.com with your PC specs, OS version, motherboard model, which USB ports you're specifically using, if you're using a hub and if so what kind etc etc. We'll try to get to the bottom of it!

Edited October 24, 2017 by Cyph3r

[Bearfoot]

This is why, despite the early on QC "issues", I deep down want to be able to get comfortable enough to order a VPC as my next HOTAS (instead of VKB). Outstanding customer service supported by Corporate...whereas I feel VKB corporate is non-existent in terms of customer relations.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This is poor taste to slander another company like this. The VKB thread is highly active with both VKB NA (rrhode) and VKB Rus (AeroGator) regularly and quickly responding to questions and comments, and, furthermore email turn-around time for me with VKB has been < 24 hrs, with all queries answered, spare parts dispatched, etc. etc. promptly. The products themselves have arrived as finely-polished "functional works of art" that you would expect from boutique shops such as these, with everything to the best standards of craftsmanship I've seen (I compare it to a Swiss watch, as opposed to the farm machines of the TMHW), working flawlessly out-of-the-box.

 

High-quality artisan sim hardware are niche-within-niche products. There is no reason to poop in one side of the cereal bowl because you like the other side --- at the end of the day, we may not be eating the same cereal, but we are all sharing the same milk.

 

Sorry for taking this thread OT. Feel free to ignore or delete as appropriate.

[Buckeye]

This is poor taste to slander another company like this. The VKB thread is highly active with both VKB NA (rrhode) and VKB Rus (AeroGator) regularly and quickly responding to questions and comments, and, furthermore email turn-around time for me with VKB has been < 24 hrs, with all queries answered, spare parts dispatched, etc. etc. promptly. The products themselves have arrived as finely-polished "functional works of art" that you would expect from boutique shops such as these, with everything to the best standards of craftsmanship I've seen (I compare it to a Swiss watch, as opposed to the farm machines of the TMHW), working flawlessly out-of-the-box.

 

High-quality artisan sim hardware are niche-within-niche products. There is no reason to poop in one side of the cereal bowl because you like the other side --- at the end of the day, we may not be eating the same cereal, but we are all sharing the same milk.

 

Sorry for taking this thread OT. Feel free to ignore or delete as appropriate.

 

It's an opinion. I think their distributors are great and have great communication, I think that VKB corporate ignores emails and attempts by their customers to connect with them. This is drawn on my own experience and reading the experiences of others. Am I an expert on everything VKB corporate as ever done? No, but I have an opinion based on what I do know. It's not "slander", so relax and stop trying to blow things out of proportion.

 

Read prior posts where I've said that VPC needs to get their QC up to the standards of VKB, because I feel VKB currently wins there. I think they produce a quality product with very few QC issues and I believe that they have good distributors (as you said), I don't believe their corporate team is their strength though. That's all.

 

Anyway, back on topic. This thread is about VPC and their products.

[LeCuvier]

It seems to be an issue with some USB hubs/motherboards if you leave the stick plugged in during boot up. Of the few that reported the issue, they fixed it by using a powered USB hub, or just plugging the stick in after boot up.

 

So of course the problem may well be fixable with a firmware update but there's a problem:

1. It seems to be a rare issue, I think it's only been reported 4-5 times at most.

2. Unfortunately this issue doesn't effect any of the VPC Team (on various laptops and desktops) so it's very difficult for us to get any real information on the issue.

 

So if you can send an email to support@virpil.com with your PC specs, OS version, motherboard model, which USB ports you're specifically using, if you're using a hub and if so what kind etc etc. We'll try to get to the bottom of it!

If it's really such a rare issue I see very little chance to have the cause identified. Note I have had this issue since I own the stick i.e. end of August, and I was hoping that some firmware update would come along and fix it. That's why I didn't report earlier. Also note that my stick is now plugged into one of the rare direct USB ports on my PC - no hub in-between. Earlier it was connected through a powered hub - same issue.

So rather than tie up your technicians on a wild-goose chase, I will just re-plug my stick when I start playing. And if one day a firmware update is available I hope I will find out and try it.

[Hoffster]

Got my base this weekend. As expected there were quality issues, Cams installed were grinded after cutting (laser i presume) the other were not..

Not a major problem for me as i will polish them myself.

The pitch cam is glued in tight so i have some issues removing that, will tackle that one later with some heat. will change the screws from philips to hex head ones on the cams at some point, should be on there from factory.

 

Other than that it looks good. I will try it out once i've made an attachment for my monstertech table mount.

[Thadiun Okona]

Got my base this weekend. As expected there were quality issues, Cams installed were grinded after cutting (laser i presume) the other were not..

Not a major problem for me as i will polish them myself.

The pitch cam is glued in tight so i have some issues removing that, will tackle that one later with some heat. will change the screws from philips to hex head ones on the cams at some point, should be on there from factory.

 

Other than that it looks good. I will try it out once i've made an attachment for my monstertech table mount.

 

There's no way the cams are laser cut that's far too crude of a process to make cams, especially tiny ones like these. The marks along the machined edge are called 'sniping' and is a result of flex in the milling cutter or setup. In this case is a pretty small diameter cutter do accommodate the arc in the center (bit has to be smaller than the smallest radius) so is almost certainly flex in the bit. The solutions are pretty simple so it's puzzling why it's still happening unless it's a cost cutting measure. They are not machining their own parts and the shop in China is probably just trying to get through them as fast as possible or with the least amount of consumption or being cute with tooling, but for cutting cams you need really good bits and operators for really good results.

 

Solution(s) for sniping:

 

1) more rigid setup -don't stick bit out as far, use stiffer bit, clamp better

 

2) do more than 1 finish pass. Normally you first rough machine the shape, then go back and shave off the last .005" - .010" to bring it to finish size. In this case I would rough it and do 2 or more finish passes, with the last one cutting only .002" and maybe follow that with a 'spring pass', where the tool travels the same route as the last pass to take care of what tiny amount was still left behind due to cutter/tool flex. Also might alter rpm/ipm for better results (higher rpm+lower feed rate = smoother finish)

 

3) don't be cheap with milling cutters -replace them more often, use only high quality cutters for this particular critical piece, make sure coolant is up to the task.

 

4) final finish with grinder vs milling cutter, likely unecessary if 1-3 is followed.

 

Of course by moving manufacturing out of house it's hard to have control over these details, but so long as you are familiar with them yourself it's just a matter of communication to convey this to the people actually cutting them, perhaps paying them a little more to make sure they come out right if that's what it takes to maintain qc.

[Hoffster]

There's no way the cams are laser cut that's far too crude of a process to make cams, especially tiny ones like these. The marks along the machined edge are called 'sniping' and is a result of flex in the milling cutter or setup. In this case is a pretty small diameter cutter do accommodate the arc in the center (bit has to be smaller than the smallest radius) so is almost certainly flex in the bit. The solutions are pretty simple so it's puzzling why it's still happening unless it's a cost cutting measure. They are not machining their own parts and the shop in China is probably just trying to get through them as fast as possible or with the least amount of consumption or being cute with tooling, but for cutting cams you need really good bits and operators for really good results.

 

Solution(s) for sniping:

 

1) more rigid setup -don't stick bit out as far, use stiffer bit, clamp better

 

2) do more than 1 finish pass. Normally you first rough machine the shape, then go back and shave off the last .005" - .010" to bring it to finish size. In this case I would rough it and do 2 or more finish passes, with the last one cutting only .002" and maybe follow that with a 'spring pass', where the tool travels the same route as the last pass to take care of what tiny amount was still left behind due to cutter/tool flex. Also might alter rpm/ipm for better results (higher rpm+lower feed rate = smoother finish)

 

3) don't be cheap with milling cutters -replace them more often, use only high quality cutters for this particular critical piece, make sure coolant is up to the task.

 

4) final finish with grinder vs milling cutter, likely unecessary if 1-3 is followed.

 

Of course by moving manufacturing out of house it's hard to have control over these details, but so long as you are familiar with them yourself it's just a matter of communication to convey this to the people actually cutting them, perhaps paying them a little more to make sure they come out right if that's what it takes to maintain qc.

 

I hear you. Having worked as a cnc operator in the past, these cams does not look machine cut to me, Stamped or laser, Not waterjetted as that would make nice cuts with no need for finishsing.

[Abburo]

Small tip for those who have the screws blocked and/or destroyed:

- drill the screw with a small diameter drill bit. Use a high temperature mini torch or even a soldiering iron to heat up the screw. The drilled hole helps high temperature to better dissipate to entire screw length. Everything there is metal so you will risk nothing, just be a bit careful to not torch the electronics :D

 

The mini torch is something like this:

https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/micro-flame-butane-torches

 

The thread lock compound is generally affected by high temperatures so that you can easily unscrew it when is heated enough.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Abburo