F-15 still pulling 14G with two bags and no damage

[Svend_Dellepude]

Hope this gets fixed soon. It's been bugging me for quite a while.

GG, do you know if BST still work on the FM?

 

I THINK I've seen what you're describing. Does it sometimes lead to the stabilators "jumping" from one position to another when the stick is near center at high AoA/low airspeed? (Full back stick gives less stab angle than ~1/4 stick deflection) If so, that's something I've been trying to figure out as well.

[GGTharos]

I don't know, though I figure cofcorpse might get to it at some point :)

[captain_dalan]

G tolerance is less than it should be, at least for certain countries. The g system is already just fine and fair.

 

And a couple of other things: Taking away g capability immediately takes away the ability to use a high-g capable fighter as a high-g capable fighter. Imagine for a moment if it was an F-16, and not an F-15 ... people would complain about not being able to turn that plane as they ought to, and rightly so.

 

I have no idea about the tolerance levels myself. The most i have experienced was about 4g, and that's way too low to even begin feeling anything. I did that test run i was talking about (8g vertical 180, starting at 450-500 KIAS, angels 10) though. And even as some screen darkening does appear, you can safely do it. I didn't count in how much time, nor can i calculate it (as the load dropped near the top of the egg, when my IAS fell beneath 300), but i did a sustained 8g level turn down low later on, and i get the impression that the virtual pilot can do it either long enough to not be a hindrance or practically indefinitely. So..... dunno. Maybe different g tolerance for different plane's pilots? But that would cause even more hate on the forums.

 

Also, people who in some cases paid many hundreds of dollars to build their pits/get VR rigs might be really unhappy about this.

 

I'm pretty sure they would. But i'm talking about my personal preferences only.

 

P.S. sorry to have brought this back, i was away from keyboard the last day or so.

 

EDIT:

2) Not sure about that, look on page 47 of Eagle Talk Part 2 regarding pitching moment.

 

Did check that too. The HUD, the cockpit and the external g-meters (or accelerometers, whatever you want to call them), all show the same g in our sim. SO which g is it? The one at the center of gravity? The one in the cockpit?

Edited March 31, 2017 by captain_dalan

[Sweep]

Till then the F15 AFM is a poor imitation of the Su27s.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Sweep
edited quote

[*Rage*]

The turkeys vote to cancel Xmas. Who would have guessed?!

[Sweep]

Who would have guessed?!

 

Whoever isn't pulling 14g in a loop.

 

:smilewink:

[Monkey21]

Just in case some of you aren't salty enough yet

 

 

23.3G

 

[Sweep]

Thanks for the new profile picture Monkey.

[The Black Swan]

Thanks for the new profile picture Monkey.

 

Lol

[Pocket Sized]

^^ Wow, look, it's a 0.05 second transient reading that may or may not even be accurate. I still laughed though.

 

Hope this gets fixed soon. It's been bugging me for quite a while.

GG, do you know if BST still work on the FM?

 

At some point, I was doing some experimenting with moving the CG around. A few months later I tried the exact same values and found the aircraft to be completely uncontrollable. That indicates some tweaking to stability margins maybe?

[karambiatos]

^^ Wow, look, it's a 0.05 second transient reading that may or may not even be accurate. I still laughed though.

Enough to get a snapshot on something you shouldn't be able to.

[Sweep]

Lol no.

 

There's a point where adding G just adds bleed rate and no useful turn rate...

[*Rage*]

There's a point where adding G will damage your aircraft and stores. It's not about how useful it is. Pulling 30G in the Flanker was not significantly useful either.

 

When BST implement it I suspect it will be a shock how much G pilots don't realise they're pulling.

Edited April 1, 2017 by ///Rage

[captain_dalan]

Come again?

 

640 KIAS, 3000ft (or about), no stores, 60% internal fuel, full aft deflection...... just barely goes above 13g (mostly because of lateral input) in less then a blink on the first go, doesn't even reach 13 on the second with less fuel by then.

(for some reason it won't let me frame the video, so here is the link)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULx3QGNUqdc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULx3QGNUqdc

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by captain_dalan

[lunaticfringe]

When BST implement it I suspect it will be a shock how much G pilots don't realise they're pulling.

 

Or you could just... oh, I don't know- initiate a smooth pull, listen for the OWS, and relax appropriately.

 

But that would actually entail max-performing the airframe, and nobody does that.

[Sweep]

There's a point where adding G will damage your aircraft and stores. It's not about how useful it is.

 

It absolutely is about how useful the bug/exploit in quesiton is - Because how useful it is when exploited will determine if or when it gets changed.

 

Pulling 30G in the Flanker was not significantly useful either.

 

That's not what virtual Chuck Norris or whatever you called him thought. He and others used the direct control mode for BFM VERY successfully. That bug *was* significantly useful.

 

When BST implement it I suspect it will be a shock how much G pilots don't realise they're pulling.

 

Yeah those Flanker guys who fly the Eagle once a year to make a track for their strawman will be absolutely shocked.

 

And besides, that's assuming BST sees this as a bug worth fixing. ;)

 

There are much bigger things that affect the Eagle right now and have a huge effect on the PVP that everyone loves - They just don't effect the Flanker guys negatively so there's no complaining.

[Chrinik]

Fixing an overperforming flight model and imposing a damage model is not a high priority. A higher priority is fixing something that could make the Eagle lose.

 

 

This thread in a nutshell :megalol:

Edited April 1, 2017 by Chrinik

[lunaticfringe]

Fixing an overperforming flight model and imposing a damage model is not a high priority. A higher priority is fixing something that could make the Eagle lose.

 

Just to make sure I understand you properly:

 

A ineffective, and wholly unusable transient load divergence is less important than a literal control lockout bug.

 

Absolutely.

 

The direct control mode issue with the Flanker was tactically advantageous; you're welcome to run the rate and radius numbers- based on when CL and Q would converge to permit this transient in the F-15, it's not generating numbers more exceptional than driving it correctly. Is it overperforming? For some reason, perhaps. Is it permitting Eagles to pull anything related to what we saw with the high G in the Su-27? Not even close.

 

And the Flanker hasn't had a bug that caused it a control lockout; that's a sad flaw, and you wouldn't hear anyone in their right mind complaining to see it fixed were it affecting Red Air.

 

Which is to say, you didn't have it locked down. But I do:

 

Fixing a bug that causes an Eagle to lose positive flight control for no reason is not a high priority. A higher priority is complaining about a marginal state of over-performance an F-15 can't effectively use, because the Flanker doesn't get to use a bug that granted it three and a third times its designed load factor to an advantage anymore

[Chrinik]

Just to make sure I understand you properly

You didn´t. But I won´t explain the joke.

 

I also never complained.

 

But to reiterate the joke:

 

 

Fixing the unrealistic flight performance of a Flanker by imposing a damage model that would kill your aircraft if you didn´t fly it within structural parameters instead of just limiting it´s AOA and G capabilities is fine. Doing the same on the F-15C is not.

 

And to think that doing high G barrel rolls does not give you a significant advantage in combat when it is literally the way to go to dodge ED missiles is hillarious. You see it all the time, with bags, with spikes up to 23Gs for whatever reason (be it lag or whatever you want to excuse it as), and you guys shrug saying "it can´t be used to your advantage so it doesn´t matter".

Every missile dodged in this video was dodged in the same manner. But yeah, sure, can´t be used. Not an advantage. Insignificant. Whatever you say.

 

Just thought of another one:

 

Complaining about your K/D ratio is because of fanboyism. Complaining about mine is about furthering the quality of the sim.

 

I´m just making sarcastic observations about the rethoric in this thread, man...no need to get all fanboy at me.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Chrinik

[jackmckay]

Fixing an overperforming flight model and imposing a damage model is not a high priority. A higher priority is fixing something that could make the Eagle lose.

This thread in a nutshell :megalol:

 

:megalol: Absolutely! Theres some signifficant resemblence between north korea and ED. :megalol:

[BodyOrgan]

You didn´t. But I won´t explain the joke.

 

I also never complained.

 

But to reiterate the joke:

 

 

 

 

And to think that doing high G barrel rolls does not give you a significant advantage in combat when it is literally the way to go to dodge ED missiles is hillarious. You see it all the time, with bags, with spikes up to 23Gs for whatever reason (be it lag or whatever you want to excuse it as), and you guys shrug saying "it can´t be used to your advantage so it doesn´t matter".

Every missile dodged in this video was dodged in the same manner. But yeah, sure, can´t be used. Not an advantage. Insignificant. Whatever you say.

 

Just thought of another one:

 

 

 

I´m just making sarcastic observations about the rethoric in this thread, man...no need to get all fanboy at me.

 

Fixing an overperforming flight model and imposing a damage model is not a high priority. A higher priority is fixing something that could make the Eagle lose.

 

 

:megalol: Absolutely! Theres some signifficant resemblence between north korea and ED. :megalol:

I approve this message! :thumbup:

[probad]

remove fc3 from the game already

[winchesterdelta1]

You didn´t. But I won´t explain the joke.

 

I also never complained.

 

But to reiterate the joke:

 

 

 

 

And to think that doing high G barrel rolls does not give you a significant advantage in combat when it is literally the way to go to dodge ED missiles is hillarious. You see it all the time, with bags, with spikes up to 23Gs for whatever reason (be it lag or whatever you want to excuse it as), and you guys shrug saying "it can´t be used to your advantage so it doesn´t matter".

Every missile dodged in this video was dodged in the same manner. But yeah, sure, can´t be used. Not an advantage. Insignificant. Whatever you say.

 

Just thought of another one:

 

 

 

I´m just making sarcastic observations about the rethoric in this thread, man...no need to get all fanboy at me.

 

Sorry but you can defeat AIM-7M like this with every plane in DCS. Done it with Flanker, MIG-29, F-5, Sabre, Mirage. It has more to do with the AIM-7 then how many g's you pull. Also i barely use a barrel role to avoid 99% of the missiles. Mostly it's a last ditch effort from close range to make the missile over compensate.

[Frostie]

The point is lost, in a Flanker you have to be aware of your limits when in the heat of an engagement, cranking, diving, rolling pulling into the notch even barrel rolling, if you want to be succesful you have to be aggressive but with airframe limits imposed you also have to be disciplined. Being concerned about not overstressing your airframe is a major factor in this. Now with the new stick limiter imposed there is a terrible turn rate on the Flanker unless you apply the override which greatly increases the overstress risk. Now switch to the F-15 and you have nothing to worry about, not even if you're carrying 3 bags, you can perform any move without any concern whatsoever so can focus purely on prosecuting attack and defence, spiking G by pulling too hard, rolling too erratically, crazy barrel rolls at mach speed to confuse seekers anything goes there is nothing to worry about here, its like comparing a military sim against X-Wing v Tie fighter.

 

Why would ED restrict one airframe in FC3 to this while the others don't have such restrictions. It is like making the doppler notch affect one radar set but not another.

[Falcon_S]

...

Why would ED restrict one airframe in FC3 to this while the others don't have such restrictions. It is like making the doppler notch affect one radar set but not another.

 

Maybe before we get answer from Boeing why they restrict F-15.

 

http://www.boeing.com/defense/f-15-strike-eagle/#/facts

 

Did they have ever heard for DCS F-15C which can go over 14G and our ninjas pilots who can withstand +9G without problems? :D

 

I know, i know, i know... strike eagle, C, dcs... ;)