jc005e Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafEtqTSqNg&feature=youtu.be I know many Eagle pilots will disagree with my opinion but this is not how an F-15 should be handling at slow speeds based on its design... I have NEVER seen an F-15 pull off 30 degrees nose up at slow speed and low altitude. Hopefully ED will fix this issue. In no way an F-15 at low altitude should be out maneuvering and out turning a clean SU-27.... 2
red_coreSix Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 So because you have not "seen" it it's unrealistic? Makes sense..
aileron Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192176 https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19830011486.pdf https://youtu.be/ZpxD6n9ZWyQ?t=156
razo+r Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 better bring some tables about performance than just telling your opinion
Exorcet Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 I could be wrong, but you never went over 20 degrees. The F-15 displays AoA in units (units = AoA + 10). I think your HUD showed 30 max. The video is very low quality though. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files
lunaticfringe Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafEtqTSqNg&feature=youtu.be I know many Eagle pilots will disagree with my opinion but this is not how an F-15 should be handling at slow speeds based on its design... I have NEVER seen an F-15 pull off 30 degrees nose up at slow speed and low altitude. Hopefully ED will fix this issue. In no way an F-15 at low altitude should be out maneuvering and out turning a clean SU-27.... Stop talking about what you know nothing about, and have no data to back up. Once again, from the 325th TTW student RTU manual: 1
HiJack Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 Everytime a Su-27 fanboy is shot down 2-3 times in one event they start complaining. :lol: 2
probad Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192176 when you have trouble learning from your mistakes you're going to have difficulties in the pvp arena.
Gunny Highway Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 Listen m9, The F-15 is vastly superior to the poorly engineered su-27. What else did you expect? 1 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vsd0o5MT4FGzkWjaEucVg Combat Vet, Couch Pilot
DarkFire Posted August 16, 2017 Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Here we go again... :yawn: For what it's worth the DCS F-15C flight model has been signed off by actual Eagle pilots. That suggests to me that it's an accurate representation of how the real thing behaves and handles. Edited to add: if we really must go in to yet another comparison between the F-15C and Su-27, then even under ideal conditions the difference in STR between the two is very small, something of the order of 1-2 degrees per second in favour of the Su-27 IIRC. The reason it's so dangerous in a WVR fight is not all to do with the ITR / STR capability but is that combined with the off-axis capability of the R-73 and the HMS. Final edit: until we get things like the EF-2000 and maybe the F-18, the WVR opponent I have the most respect for when piloting my Su-27 is the F-15C. Edited August 17, 2017 by DarkFire 1 System Spec: Cooler Master Cosmos C700P Black Edition case. | AMD 5950X CPU | MSI RTX-3090 GPU | 32GB HyperX Predator PC4000 RAM | | TM Warthog stick & throttle | TrackIR 5 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 4 SSD 1TB (boot) | Samsung 870 QVO SSD 4TB (games) | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.
aileron Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 Listen m9, The F-15 is vastly superior to the poorly engineered su-27. What else did you expect? This is a mis-characterization of the SU-27 and to Russian engineering. Which is pretty impressive and far from poor. Its a matter of attitude. Russians think from a war time perspective which states stuff will get shot out of the sky and design accordingly. Cheap where they can afford it to be and expensive where it must be and easily replaceable under war time conditions is not a poor design choice nor poor engineering.
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafEtqTSqNg&feature=youtu.be I know many Eagle pilots will disagree with my opinion but this is not how an F-15 should be handling at slow speeds based on its design... I have NEVER seen an F-15 pull off 30 degrees nose up at slow speed and low altitude. Hopefully ED will fix this issue. In no way an F-15 at low altitude should be out maneuvering and out turning a clean SU-27....Sure it can outmaneuver a clean flanker. All it takes is a bad flanker pilot, and there is no shortage of poor virtual pilots. F-15s will easily fly at 30deg AOA and have demonstrated spikes to 45+ AOA. If you're defeated by such a spike, your merits as a flanker pilot should be in question ;). The flanker can SUSTAIN an insane 15deg/s turn rate at show speeds and spike AOA to 100deg. The Eagle can't do either of those things. The Eagle is not the problem here. The problem is the flanker pilot's lack of understanding of bfm. If you want to show that something is wrong, there are f15 performance charts you can use to see if the FM deviates from the real performance of the Eagle. Your opinion on the matter what you believe the aircraft should or should not do with respect to a flanker simply don't matter. Your opinion is not proof - but information to make your case is out there. Hint: the real data didn't back up your opinion. Edited August 17, 2017 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
jc005e Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 "For what it's worth the DCS F-15C flight model has been signed off by actual Eagle pilots" I call that bullshit. But as i knew abunch of F-15 Fanboys saying this is exactly how the real thing flys.. LOL you guys just want it easy thats why pilots who flew the su's are much better.
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 "For what it's worth the DCS F-15C flight model has been signed off by actual Eagle pilots" I call that bullshit. But as i knew abunch of F-15 Fanboys saying this is exactly how the real thing flys.. LOL you guys just want it easy thats why pilots who flew the su's are much better.So, prove its wrong. Grab the charts, the data, and show the FM IS wrong and ED will fix it. Easy. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
jc005e Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192176 https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19830011486.pdf https://youtu.be/ZpxD6n9ZWyQ?t=156 Notice how in the video all those moves are done at higher altitudes where the f-15 excells at. All the moves i did were at low altitude were the f-15 should struggle in slow speed maneuverability.. But go ahead and keep believing the f-15 is a slow speed turning fighter like the su and mig's... The flight model is unrealistic for sure though. 1
VampireNZ Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 ... the poorly engineered su-27. As an aircraft design engineer I am very impressed with many design aspects of the SU-27, and Soviet aircraft design in general. The closure of the engine intakes on the ground is a genius idea. Just because something is different, this doesn't automatically make it inferior. Vampire
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 Citation/proof needed. I'll put it to you another way:. Unless you prove it's wrong, I doubt ED will ever look at this. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
DarkFire Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 "For what it's worth the DCS F-15C flight model has been signed off by actual Eagle pilots" I call that bullshit. But as i knew abunch of F-15 Fanboys saying this is exactly how the real thing flys.. LOL you guys just want it easy thats why pilots who flew the su's are much better. Go watch Wag's videos on the relatively recent updates to the F-15 FM. Clearly explains that ED had actual F-15C pilots make some recommendations, some of which were rather ironically about the high-AOA behaviour. But cool, don't believe it. Compare the performance of the DCS F-15C to published charts for the actual thing. They're very similar. VERY similar. Personally that's good enough for me to believe that it's realistic, but YMMV I guess :glare: System Spec: Cooler Master Cosmos C700P Black Edition case. | AMD 5950X CPU | MSI RTX-3090 GPU | 32GB HyperX Predator PC4000 RAM | | TM Warthog stick & throttle | TrackIR 5 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 4 SSD 1TB (boot) | Samsung 870 QVO SSD 4TB (games) | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.
jc005e Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 Everytime a Su-27 fanboy is shot down 2-3 times in one event they start complaining. :lol: I have shot down plenty of f-15s with the R-27ER/ET. Same in my mirage 2000c But sadly most F-15 pilots use the spamraams and not much of the aim-7s.. Im going to asume your afraid or not a good enough pilot to fly with only fox 1's?? IDK Props to the guys who stick with aim-7s though. Bottom line a clean and light su-27 at lower altitude should be able to get his not around MUCH quicker than the f-15 should. 1
Buzzles Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 You've already had one thread on this topic locked (yesterday no-less). Pretty sure you're about to feel the force of an unhappy moderation team considering you haven't even bothered to bring hard data to this thread (again). Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here!
GGTharos Posted August 17, 2017 Posted August 17, 2017 And it does, provided they are turning at the same speed below say m0.7. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
jc005e Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 Go watch Wag's videos on the relatively recent updates to the F-15 FM. Clearly explains that ED had actual F-15C pilots make some recommendations, some of which were rather ironically about the high-AOA behaviour. But cool, don't believe it. Compare the performance of the DCS F-15C to published charts for the actual thing. They're very similar. VERY similar. Personally that's good enough for me to believe that it's realistic, but YMMV I guess :glare: Dude F-15s were stationed out of Elmendorf AFB for years and every single airshow i went to were the f-15 performed NOT ONCE has it ever attempted to demonstrate a high alpha or a pitch up rate like an f-18 NOT ONCE... lol "Clearly explains that ED had actual F-15C pilots make some recommendations, some of which were rather ironically about the high-AOA behaviour" Clearly F-15 pilots are not going to tell you exactly how the thing flys and those AOA rates are probably done for a few seconds not like in the video i showed you. Remeber all the maneuvering i did were at low speeds and low altitude , I take it as you and your Eagle fan boys agree that the F-15 should be maneuvering like an F-18/F-16 at lower alt , total Bullshit.
jc005e Posted August 17, 2017 Author Posted August 17, 2017 You've already had one thread on this topic locked (yesterday no-less). Pretty sure you're about to feel the force of an unhappy moderation team considering you haven't even bothered to bring hard data to this thread (again). Yeah... A room full of eagle fanboys , I already knew ALOT would disagree. I know you guys want your precious F-15 to stay the way it is because you can easily get kills and easily out maneuver misses when your plane is literally unbreakable.
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