DCS and Pimax

[Svsmokey]

This post isn't meant to change anyone's mind . I expect some are pretty much unchangable anyway . But having lately gone VR , i do see both sides of this (off topic) argument .

 

On the one hand , it is early days for VR . The displays as seen are more like SVGA than even 1080p . More than that , it will be years before we see a serious flight sim developed with VR implementation at its core . Right now , we need incredibly expensive hardware to achieve even mediocre graphical results .

 

But , given all that , there must be a reason why something like 92% of people who have flown VR can't go back .

It is more than being fully visually immersed in a virtual world . It is more even than sitting in a 3d virtual cockpit , although that alone is awesome . It is more than improved SA and more than an increased appreciation of the subtleties of terrain .

 

There is something very fundamental in the way VR fools your brain . People in VR react to , and do things that reflect not someone sitting beside a computer , but something someone might do in the world they are experiencing . The other day i had my headset on , and realised my glasses were in my lap . I found myself reaching OVER the cockpit sill and back down to lay them on the Tv stand . Anyone using VR has a similar story .

 

The thing is - why do we flightsim ? To experience flight in whatever form ? NOTHING can offer that experience in one's home like VR , short of a 720° projection system . Between the immersion , being IN the cockpit and the afore-mentioned tricking of the brain in a very fundamental way , I FEEL I'm flying . I FEEL , physically , every roll , and I positively tingle clearing - barely - a knob or tree while dropping into a valley in a dive .

 

I've been simming for many decades , from blowing-up Zeppelins in Red Baron , through many sims in the interim , to 1080p in DCS . But sitting in front of a monitor was always more an intellectual exercise than an experience .

 

And that's the difference . VR makes you feel . It is experiential .

 

BTW , TrackIr for sale .

Edited February 3, 2019 by Svsmokey

[SharpeXB]

You've been saying this for how long now?

Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself.

Just sayin...

:smilewink:

That’s not me saying it. That’s anything you read about it.

 

Please do stay on topic.

Sure. Keep the topic on Pimax. What is the potential for selling a $650 8K VR headset in a market where one of the top selling VR games is Job Simulator? Where are the games and apps that would encourage a consumer to purchase something like a Pimax? That’s the dillema VR hardware finds itself in. Although great in VR flying and racing sims are just a tiny fraction of the overall market. The type of game that Pimax would seem ideal for isn’t a big seller overall.

Edited February 3, 2019 by SharpeXB

[dogbite]

That’s not me saying it. That’s anything you read about it.

 

 

Sure. Keep the topic on Pimax. What is the potential for selling a $650 8K VR headset in a market where one of the top selling VR games is Job Simulator? Where are the games and apps that would encourage a consumer to purchase something like a Pimax? That’s the dillema VR hardware finds itself in. Although great in VR flying and racing sims are just a tiny fraction of the overall market. The type of game that Pimax would seem ideal for isn’t a big seller overall.

 

 

I enjoy over 25 titles in VR and I know at least 20 will run fine as demonstrated in videos, This includes most of my Rift library without Revive.

I guess on it depending what you like to play and if you can justify the cost of entry.

Edited February 4, 2019 by dogbite

[hansangb]

That’s not me saying it. That’s anything you read about it.

 

 

Sure. Keep the topic on Pimax. What is the potential for selling a $650 8K VR headset in a market where one of the top selling VR games is Job Simulator? Where are the games and apps that would encourage a consumer to purchase something like a Pimax? That’s the dillema VR hardware finds itself in. Although great in VR flying and racing sims are just a tiny fraction of the overall market. The type of game that Pimax would seem ideal for isn’t a big seller overall.

 

 

LOL. I didn't kickstart Pimax because of the job simulator game (or whatever it comes with). I *ONLY* care about DCS. It's that fundamental for me. If all VR support went away, I would *NOT* play DCS anymore. What would be the point? Go back to looking at 2D pictures pretending that I'm flying in 3D world w/ no sense of height and speed? No thank you.

 

As for the market, my guess is in the next two years, no one will play with 2D monitors.

 

It's killing me that I can't install my Pimax until next weekend. Grrrr. I'll be sure to write up detailed review.

 

If you haven't tried DCS and VR, you really can't give an opinion on it. I get that you tried it and hated it. But do understand that if you didn't hit the sweet spot, if IPD wasn't set, if the GPU was lacking, you may not have had the best experience.

 

But I could careless if you decided to stick with 4K picture or VR immersion. It's no skin off my back. Enjoy your 4K monitor, I'm sure the picture looks nice (well, I know because I used to fly with 4K in DCS)

[SharpeXB]

LOL. I didn't kickstart Pimax because of the job simulator game (or whatever it comes with). I *ONLY* care about DCS.

No doubt flight sims are great in VR. But that’s not the whole market, only a sliver. Pimax won’t survive selling only to DCS. That’s the rub with the headset manufacturers. There aren’t games out there that really scream buy me for VR. The fact that Job Simulator really is a top seller is disturbing. And without an install base there’s not an incentive to make those games.

[StandingCow]

No doubt flight sims are great in VR. But that’s not the whole market, only a sliver. Pimax won’t survive selling only to DCS. That’s the rub with the headset manufacturers. There aren’t games out there that really scream buy me for VR. The fact that Job Simulator really is a top seller is disturbing. And without an install base there’s not an incentive to make those games.

 

There are a LOT more uses of VR besides video games... from designing cars, etc in the commercial sector to watching movies, sporting events, etc in the consumer market. VR isn't limited at all to just video games, that is only a small percentage.

 

Just a few examples:

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-introduces-virtual-reality-experiences/c-279085566

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/NFL-and-NextVR-Return-for-Second-Season-of-Virtual-Reality-Experiences.aspx

https://www.nextvr.com/wwe

 

Can't afford or don't have the room for a nice home entertainment area? Or don't want to go to the movies? You can sit in a huge theater or watch a movie on the moon on a big screen. Want to feel like you are at a concert but not actually go? Buy a VR ticket. https://www.nextvr.com/live-nation VR even helps those with things like flight anxiety, since you can power some of the headsets with phones.

Edited February 4, 2019 by StandingCow

[SharpeXB]

There are a LOT more uses of VR besides video games...

Right. I actually have one at work as an Architect. It’s amazing for that.

[dburne]

This is a very long running thread regarding Pimax VR with DCS World.

More and more backers are receiving their 5k units now, can we please get back to the thread topic...

Pretty sure it is amazing for DCS and would like to learn more about it.

:music_whistling:

[Buckeye]

This is a very long running thread regarding Pimax VR with DCS World.

More and more backers are receiving their 5k units now, can we please get back to the thread topic...

Pretty sure it is amazing for DCS and would like to learn more about it.

:music_whistling:

 

I unfortunately made the mistake of not backing up being an immediate pre-orderer, so, I had to pay double what the backers did and I'll receive mine a couple months later than them...but when I do, I will provide a nice write-up to compare to my Rift CV1 and Odyssey+ :thumbup:

[Harlikwin]

I unfortunately made the mistake of not backing up being an immediate pre-orderer, so, I had to pay double what the backers did and I'll receive mine a couple months later than them...but when I do, I will provide a nice write-up to compare to my Rift CV1 and Odyssey+ :thumbup:

 

I really look forward to that. I've got a rift, and right now its between the O+ and P5k for the "upgrade".

[Gladman]

I really look forward to that. I've got a rift, and right now its between the O+ and P5k for the "upgrade".

 

I currently use an O+ and I'll have my Pimax in a couple weeks so I'll give my impressions.

[Naruto]

I unfortunately made the mistake of not backing up being an immediate pre-orderer, so, I had to pay double what the backers did and I'll receive mine a couple months later than them...but when I do, I will provide a nice write-up to compare to my Rift CV1 and Odyssey+ :thumbup:

 

You have no recourse as a backer if something goes wrong. A guy on the pimax forum had his stolen in France and the delivery person said it was delivered so no recourse on charging back Pimax if they don't come through. For a preorder, I used a CC so if any issues, at least I can do a charge back but backers can't, they would be SOL if anything goes wrong.

[hansangb]

This is a very long running thread regarding Pimax VR with DCS World.

More and more backers are receiving their 5k units now, can we please get back to the thread topic...

Pretty sure it is amazing for DCS and would like to learn more about it.

:music_whistling:

 

 

Dammit! My new miter saw came in so now I won't be able to configure the 5K+ for another week. LOL. It's *killing* me. But I really want to knock out the enclosure for my Shapeoko first. Been pretty cold so I need to get that done first. :thumbup:

 

After I saw that through the lens shot of Samsung O+, I'm thinking it'll be about the same with wider FOV. We'll see. I'll be sure to write up a review.

 

And for those of you still waiting, they shipped over 5,000 units. I think that's all Kickstarters. So I'm guessing all the pre-orders will ship after the Chinese new year holiday week is over.

[Wmacky]

My 5K+ finally came today after more than a year wait. This puts me one step closer to the ultimate VR cockpit I'm constructing.

[rjetster1]

Great!! Waiting for review!

[Harlikwin]

I currently use an O+ and I'll have my Pimax in a couple weeks so I'll give my impressions.

 

Please do.

[StandingCow]

The only negatives with the pimax for DCS (well anything really) right now is the headstrap... and with a lower PD setting it is painful to wear. There is a mod you can do to use the vive deluxe headstrap but I might just wait to see what pimax comes out with, not sure yet.

 

The other is performance, but that's not really pimax specific... although Pimax's brainwarp may help since it can make lower FPS look smooth when you turn down the HZ of the display. The rest is up to ED to fix.

[ram0506]

Here are some of my observations regarding the Pimax 5K+ with Smart Smoothing in combination with DCS.

 

The 90/45Hz-mode is working rather good. First impression was, that it was working as good as ASW of Oculus. Game play with 45fps is smooth except when rolling the aircraft and looking to the sides. Then you have noticeable stuttering and landscape gets blurry. In addition to that you will have the same artifacts, that you get with ASW. Very noticeable in prop aircraft when looking through the visor.

The other two modes of Smart Smoothing (72/36Hz and 64/32Hz) cause flickering of the screens, most noticeable on bright areas of the picture like the sky or snowy fields. The stuttering when rolling the aircraft is more pronounced in those two modes.

 

Overall problem is still the performance of DCS. My system is barely capable of maintaining the 45 fps for Smart Smoothing. 32Hz-mode would be great for DCS, but is unplayable at the moment because of the screen flickering and stutters.

 

Smart Smoothing is a first step for better performance but still needs lots of improvements. At least the 45Hz-mode is well usable.

 

Waiting for the FFR (fixed foveated rendering) to bring further improvements.;)

Edited February 5, 2019 by ram0506

[Boris]

That sounds encouraging. Smart smoothing has only just been released, so I'm sure there will be further improvements.

I'm hoping that performance will be noticeably better on a 2080 Ti.

[Lehmen]

Game play with 45fps is smooth except when rolling the aircraft and looking to the sides. Then you have noticeable stuttering and landscape gets blurry

You get blurry picture when SS is not active. It became perfectly sharp when SS is active. To properly test it, you need someone looking at PiTool window and report to you when smart smoothing is active or inactive.

[ram0506]

You get blurry picture when SS is not active. It became perfectly sharp when SS is active. To properly test it, you need someone looking at PiTool window and report to you when smart smoothing is active or inactive.

 

That sounds strange to me. You mean, that SS is disabling during playing? And later on active again? Can't imagine that.

The blurryness and stuttering (with 45 fps) is only while rolling the aircraft. So, SS is enabled and while I'm performing a roll, the SS will deactivate, beeing active again when the roll is finnished? I don't think so. While I am having those stutters, fps stay at 45, which means, that SS is active. Otherwise fps would alternate noticeable.

 

Btw., artefacts/warping with Smart Smoothing are much worse compared to ASW. Did some dogfighting today (in IL2) and the warping of the prop/visor is so heavy sometimes, that it becomes almost impossible seeing something through it.

Edited February 5, 2019 by ram0506

[Lehmen]

That sounds strange to me. You mean, that SS is disabling during playing? And later on active again? Can't imagine that

But this is exactly how it works. SS is only active when current FPS is more than 1/2 of refresh rate. It immediately inactive when fps drops lower and active again when fps is sufficient for SS to work. At first you need someone to tell you when it active or inactive from PiTool window, but very soon you will learn to see the difference.

 

The blurryness and stuttering (with 45 fps) is only while rolling the aircraft. So, SS is enabled and while I'm performing a roll, the SS will deactivate, beeing active again when the roll is finnished?

Normally you don't see this effect when looking straight ahead. But it is very visible when you looking at the side. And this is how you can tell if SS active or not. When it active, there is no blurriness at all (which, in fact, double rendered objects, shifted a little). As soon as objects on the sides became blurred - you know that SS is inactive. When they become sharp - you know that SS is active.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Lehmen

[ram0506]

Ok, I will have a look at it, if SS is disabled temporarily. All I can say at the moment is, that frames were always at 45 when I noticed the blurriness. Furthermore, I had the same effect (much more pronounced) with the lower frame modes - 72 and 64Hz. Also the motion blurriness/stuttering while rolling with fix frames of 36 and 32 fps. The stable fps should have been the proof, that SS was enabled all the time.

[Buckeye]

Ok, I will have a look at it, if SS is disabled temporarily. All I can say at the moment is, that frames were always at 45 when I noticed the blurriness. Furthermore, I had the same effect (much more pronounced) with the lower frame modes - 72 and 64Hz. Also the motion blurriness/stuttering while rolling with fix frames of 36 and 32 fps. The stable fps should have been the proof, that SS was enabled all the time.

 

 

 

For the stuttering on rolls, etc, make sure you have Game Mod selected to OFF in Windows settings. Make sure I’m Nvidia CP you have Virtual Reality Pre-rendered frames set to 2. These settings are cured the “my frames are high but I’m getting stutter in DCS” for many, many people. Worth a shot as these are best practice settings anyway.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ram0506]

Thanks, I will try that. But I'm pretty sure, that those stutterings are related to the Pimax Smart Smoothing. I didn't see those stutters on rolls with my Oculus and ASW enabled, when having constant 45 fps.

Btw. I have the feeling, that setting VR-pre-rendered frames to 3 gives me the best result in general.