clipped wings effect flight model?

[DracoLlasa]

in today's news (http://bit.ly/2kVgISa), its mentioned that the Spit will have the option for the clipped wings which as i have read gave it an improved roll rate and a higher speed at low altitudes.

 

so i wanted to ask, are the clipped wings just a cosmetic change, or will we see the changes to the flight model to go along with them?

[probad]

this is dcs

 

of course it would come with accompanying fm changes

[DracoLlasa]

i would think so, but i have learned not to just assume

[rrohde]

i would think so, but i have learned not to just assume

 

ED's Yo-Yo said that early on, while asked as to why the clipped-wing version isn't out at the same time with the DCS: Spitfire, that they will need additional time for the Professional Flight Model (PFM) for that variant. So that's always good to hear (even though waiting sucks).

[probad]

i would think so, but i have learned not to just assume

generally a good rule of thumb but there are some safe assumptions to make.

considering flightmodel authenticity to be one of the core features of dcs, this is one of them.

 

beyond that, there's the search button.

[DracoLlasa]

ED's Yo-Yo said that early on, while asked as to why the clipped-wing version isn't out at the same time with the DCS: Spitfire, that they will need additional time for the Professional Flight Model (PFM) for that variant. So that's always good to hear (even though waiting sucks).

 

so your implying that, they might have the flight model ready now, which is why the feature is being added?

[Ala13_ManOWar]

so your implying that, they might have the flight model ready now, which is why the feature is being added?

Obviously. We haven't waited so long for a cosmetic change, still this is DCS :smilewink: . A different kettle of fish would be how much those differences in FM can be told at first sight.

 

 

Anyway, IIRC, it was not only a different FM but the fact that a single module would have more than one FM depending on ME selectable options (aside from fuel/MW50 tanks filling levels). Clipped wings is a first and after this development more modules could have similar features implying more than one FM for the same module in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

S!

[DracoLlasa]

ok i think i understand, thanks for the feedback, will be interesting to see the differences in the FM

[Aluminum Donkey]

in today's news (http://bit.ly/2kVgISa), its mentioned that the Spit will have the option for the clipped wings which as i have read gave it an improved roll rate and a higher speed at low altitudes.

 

so i wanted to ask, are the clipped wings just a cosmetic change, or will we see the changes to the flight model to go along with them?

 

I'm not sure there's really any difference worth modelling, I recall this sort of thing being discussed a long time ago, and apparently there was just about no difference in performance between the full-span Spitfire and the versions with clipped wings.

 

It would make sense that the clipped-wing version would have a slightly higher rate of roll, slightly higher max speed, and somewhat less G available at a given speed than the full span version, but apparently this wasn't the case. The aircraft performed and handled pretty much identically regardless of wing type.

 

Just anecdotal, mind you--and I'm not known for my outstanding memory :)

 

AD

[Esac_mirmidon]

If they are identical why the clipped wing version?

[Aluminum Donkey]

If they are identical why the clipped wing version?

 

Originally intended to improve speed at low altitude. I believe they eventually built all Spitfires with clipped wings, even high-alt versions, because it didn't make any difference but allowed them to use slightly less aluminum to build each aircraft. That left more metal for building other things--like more aircraft :)

 

So-called 'strategic' materials like aluminum were at a premium near the end of the war, so as far as building machinery out of the stuff goes--less means more.

 

AD

[DracoLlasa]

So i guess i go back to my original question... Is there a flight model difference or is it cosmetic.

 

Maybe someone will be able to comfirm it o e way or another.

 

I know, its DCS.. everything should be hyper real... But as also noted, maybe the effect was so minor that there is nothing or no point in trying to model the difference..

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Aluminum Donkey]

So i guess i go back to my original question... Is there a flight model difference or is it cosmetic.

 

Guess we'll find out eh :)

 

I wouldn't mind little extra speed in the Spit, it's mighty hard to catch them Germans! :) On the other hand, it's almost effortless to turn with them, and out-turn them, which I suppose was the whole point of the Spit in the first place.

 

AD

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I'd say "for sure!" It'll feel different.

 

One of the strongest features of DCS is it's quality regarding reproduction of flight and systems characteristics of the RW counterparts of aircraft it models, so, at least regarding turn rates I am sure I'll feel the difference :-)

[saburo_cz]

Originally intended to improve speed at low altitude.

No, clipped wings were introduced mainly to increase roll-rate, because Spitfire was totaly outclased by Fw190 in this discipline.

 

some results of clipped wings

advantages:

- a small increase in the rate of roll

- a slight increase in speed bellow about 20000ft

 

disadvantages:

- an inability to turn as fast of tight as an aircraft with normal wings due to an increased stalling speed in the turn

 

- a small increase in take-off run

- a loss in maximum rate of climb at any height of 160 - 200ft/min

- a lowering of the service ceiling by 1800ft

- a decrease speed above 20000ft

 

It comes from test where several Spitfire models were tested

so, for Mk.IXc some figures may not be exactly the same, but will be similar or close.

 

btw. the last sentence in report is : "... it is recommended that the wings tips are not removed from Spitfire aircraft"

[NeilWillis]

You failed to mention squeezing through tight gaps! One obvious advantage is the ability to fly under low bridges where the support piers are closer together. :music_whistling: :music_whistling: :music_whistling:

[Mr_sukebe]

Anyone got early feedback on the in game implications and performance changes?

[Mr_sukebe]

Just took mine out.

Some thoughts:

- Didn't feel noticeably different (unsurprising really)

- The engine seemed to take longer to warm up / get to the point of overheating

 

Have to say that I was rather surprised that it didn't share controls with the standard Spit, so had to recreate them.

Lastly, I couldn't find the trim for the pitch. Has that been removed?

 

Anyone else found the same?

[saburo_cz]

Lastly, I couldn't find the trim for the pitch. Has that been removed?

 

Anyone else found the same?

 

it is still here : Flight Controls / Trim Elevator NOSE DOWN/UP

it works for me

[Mr_sukebe]

it is still here : Flight Controls / Trim Elevator NOSE DOWN/UP

it works for me

 

Sorry, my mistake, not pitch, roll.

[71st_AH Rob]

Sorry, my mistake, not pitch, roll.

 

Spitfire doesn't have trim for roll, except maybe in the game avionics mode but I've never looked.

[Art-J]

Indeed, they couldn't remove something which didn't exist in the first place :D.

 

That being said, there's something wonky going on with controls. When I created my first mission (in the full editor, on the Normandy map), the clipped plane had all controls working as the standard version. But as soon as I tried the quick mission generator and Caucasus map next, it suddenly "forgot" all controls assignment. What's worse, the standard Spit got reset too. I decided not to re-do controls, but reboot the game - everything is back to normal - for now.

 

Will have to do some testing again, but looks like there might be some controls-reset bug hiding in the shadows, dependent on how we set up the mission with the Spit after loading the game for the first time.

[Reflected]

Indeed, they couldn't remove something which didn't exist in the first place :D.

 

That being said, there's something wonky going on with controls. When I created my first mission (in the full editor, on the Normandy map), the clipped plane had all controls working as the standard version. But as soon as I tried the quick mission generator and Caucasus map next, it suddenly "forgot" all controls assignment. What's worse, the standard Spit got reset too. I decided not to re-do controls, but reboot the game - everything is back to normal - for now.

 

Will have to do some testing again, but looks like there might be some controls-reset bug hiding in the shadows, dependent on how we set up the mission with the Spit after loading the game for the first time.

 

I first fired up the CW, and all the control assignments were forgotten. I thought that came with the patch. I set it up for the normal version. I'm not going to fire up the CW until someone confirms it's not a bug.

 

EDIT: I flew the CW again and the assignments were OK. Maybe ED had to reset the controls due to the new functionalities.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Reflected

[Art-J]

Nah, there's more to that. Checked again:

a) launching the game -> quick mission generation with CW -> controls are fubared for both Spits

b) Rebooting the game -> quick mission generation with non-CW -> controls are OK -> switch to CW -> controls are OK.

 

Will have to test on other maps and with other planes being loaded first after launching the game, but there's something wrong going on here. Not enough info yet to start a separate bug thread, though.

[ams999]

I copied the controls from the normal Spit to the CW (changed one button in the CW before to create the CW folder in SavedGames) - seems to work OK.