PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller

[Snow51th]

Hi Miles,

I'm in France too and I'll be your man for being the first flying frog using your system !!! :)

Do you have any info on first expected deliveries please ?

thks ;)

[schurem]

Hey Guys,

Another benefit of the stand alone system is zero impact on PC performance, and no additional coding requirement from software titles.

Miles

 

Yeah that makes sense. I'd prefer USB powered to battery powered myself, just to lessen the hassle once operational. Really looking forward to getting my hands on this (or this on my hands?)

[joca133]

Miles, besides daily checking this thread eager to hear more about your project, do you plan to have a website for people to place orders? Let me know, I want to be amongst the first lol.

[Fusedspine33]

Subscribed, count me in for a pair. If I understand your request for input. Wired for the headset mounted camera/sensor sounds good, I have a cable to contend with for the Rift anyway. If you do go cabled please make it as long as the one on the Rift.

[Pac-Man]

I will absolutely purchase these.... pre prod or public release. Just let me know! :))

[GVO]

Same here, will definately buy this!!

[aaron886]

If the price is reasonable, I'd buy this. A simple pointing device that doesn't interfere with the stick is exactly what I've wanted for VR.

[Chic]

Can the Tracking Camera be mounted on a fixed location as opposed to the headset? (I run 2D mostly)

[BlacleyCole]

I’ve not kept up on this item or post so what is the current status of. This itemas I’m interested in tying it ot

[MilesD]

Hey Guys,

I am waiting for the production FCU PCBs to be delivered. Once I have them populated with components I will post some pics. I have been testing and finalizing the new HMD and I am close to the final design. The initial release of the PointCTRL HMD will be wired with a Micro USB connector. I am still targeting November 1st for pre-release testing to community contributors with general sales beginning in December.

 

@ Chic The camera can be mounted in a stationary position, I do plan on doing an optimized setup for use with a monitor. I have also been experimenting with 2 cameras to add the third dimension of depth for when software titles can support it.

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

Miles

[OzWookiee]

Super excited sir!

[AdrianK]

I have been watching this thread from the start. Can't wait to try them.

Put me on the purchase list. I will buy as soon as they are

Available.

Edited October 10, 2018 by AdrianK

[heloguy]

Definitely interested in two when they are available.

[Bob_Bushman]

Also very interested, was already considering spending something like 60-100$ on a trackball for my pit build, but this would be much better.

[VirusAM]

Hey Guys,

 

I am waiting for the production FCU PCBs to be delivered. Once I have them populated with components I will post some pics. I have been testing and finalizing the new HMD and I am close to the final design. The initial release of the PointCTRL HMD will be wired with a Micro USB connector. I am still targeting November 1st for pre-release testing to community contributors with general sales beginning in December.

 

 

 

@ Chic The camera can be mounted in a stationary position, I do plan on doing an optimized setup for use with a monitor. I have also been experimenting with 2 cameras to add the third dimension of depth for when software titles can support it.

 

 

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

Miles

 

 

 

Hi Miles this is a genius touch....i will buy for sure (well depending on the price)

just a question...i imagine you want to keep things compatible with all the VR devices...but have you considered to use Mixed Reality Headsets cameras?it has two cameras that uses for 6dof for tracking and maybe you could use it for finger unit tracking in place of your camera...obviously it would give the option to Mixed reality headset users to buy only the finger units and save some money...but for the others would be indifferent

[Thick8]

Hi Miles this is a genius touch

Thanks. I don’t know about genius, but I thought it was a good idea at the time.

I know it may be a little petty but when someone blatently uses your idea they should at least give you a nod. Posted 2 months before Miles stated that he thought it up. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284136&postcount=3

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284139&postcount=4

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284139&postcount=5

Just had to get this off my chest.

Carry on.

[MilesD]

Thanks. I don’t know about genius, but I thought it was a good idea at the time.

I know it may be a little petty but when someone blatently uses your idea they should at least give you a nod. Posted 2 months before Miles stated that he thought it up. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284136&postcount=3

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284139&postcount=4

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284139&postcount=5

Just had to get this off my chest.

Carry on.

 

Hi Thick8,

I am sorry you feel slighted, but I was only aware of your experimenting when you posted it in the PointCTRL thread a few weeks ago. I agree that neither of our implementations are genius. While I don't recall the specifics of yours, I think I recall it used a USB camera and freetrack software without any button implementation and talk of gloves. So I am a little confused about what you thought I could of used of your idea. I don't know when you posted, but I was messing around with a working prototype 6 months before I posted. My inspiration was from Leap Motion to mount the camera on an HMD. I don't think it's petty to be upset if you feel someone used your idea and did not give you credit. I am glad you posted what you felt and got it off your chest. Had I been inspired by your experiments I would have enthusiastically let you know and give credit where it was due. I am sure we are not the only two people who have had this exact idea, after all there are not a lot of different ways to track your finger position. So please don't feel slighted and your experiments were a great idea.

 

Miles

[MilesD]

Hey Thick8,

Just read your linked post, It looks like you posted almost a year ago, which was well before I started messing with this. I was also incorrect, because you were talking about mouse button implementation. Didn't you post a video too?, I thought I saw one you made.

 

Miles

[OzWookiee]

Hi Thick8,

I am sorry you feel slighted, but I was only aware of your experimenting when you posted it in the PointCTRL thread a few weeks ago. I agree that neither of our implementations are genius. While I don't recall the specifics of yours, I think I recall it used a USB camera and freetrack software without any button implementation and talk of gloves. So I am a little confused about what you thought I could of used of your idea. I don't know when you posted, but I was messing around with a working prototype 6 months before I posted. My inspiration was from Leap Motion to mount the camera on an HMD. I don't think it's petty to be upset if you feel someone used your idea and did not give you credit. I am glad you posted what you felt and got it off your chest. Had I been inspired by your experiments I would have enthusiastically let you know and give credit where it was due. I am sure we are not the only two people who have had this exact idea, after all there are not a lot of different ways to track your finger position. So please don't feel slighted and your experiments were a great idea.

 

Miles

 

Bravo. Well said sir!

[hansangb]

Thanks. I don’t know about genius, but I thought it was a good idea at the time.

I know it may be a little petty but when someone blatently uses your idea they should at least give you a nod. Posted 2 months before Miles stated that he thought it up. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284136&postcount=3

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284139&postcount=4

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3284139&postcount=5

Just had to get this off my chest.

Carry on.

 

 

 

 

If you make it, I'm sure folks will buy the best of both. Competition is great for us consumers!

[Shrike_AU]

fixed link for the vive tracker

https://www.hackster.io/hivetracker/hivetracker-3aaa24?utm_source=Hackster.io+newsletter&utm_campaign=bed3e0c01d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_07_26_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6ff81e3e5b-bed3e0c01d-140463197&mc_cid=bed3e0c01d&mc_eid=7b0c3bd87a

[Thick8]

Like I said earlier in the thread, I’m glad someone ran with this idea. I built mine and realized that the implementation was off enough to be more frustrating than useful for me. You have to be able to completely unlock the mouse from the view to make this work right. Because the slightest movement of your head will ruin the mouse cursor alignment with a switch or a knob. Coupled with no tactile feedback, it’s a dance between your hand movement and hand movement. In addition there is unintended movement of your pointing finger when clicking the buttons.

I know we all share ideas and thoughts here. Heck, I used Gadrock’s HELIOS with Cpt. Zee’s profile for years. All of my sim panels were built using the ideas and files of forum members here. I assumed (maybe erroneously) that you read my posts, thought is was a good idea and built on it. Like I said, maybe petty, but we all like to be appreciated for our contribution.

I receive a sample pack of super low pressure tactile dome switches from a company when I realized the button click issue. There’s like hundreds of them in the sample. If you run into issues with your chosen switches let me know and I can send you these.

Good luck!

[Thick8]

One of the things I thought would make the button clicking better would be to use a micro 4-way “hat” switch. Something like this. https://blog.adafruit.com/2012/05/18/partfinder-friday-5-way-joystick-navigation-switch/

Because the buttons have to be small and close together you can find yourself searching for them a little. With a clickable 4-way you can have left click, right, click, and scroll up/down on 1 “button”. The center click can be assigned to middle mouse button. That way you can double click it to switch between the X and the cursor so you can manipulate the communication menu.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Thick8

[MilesD]

The Challenge of locking a 2d cursor to a 3d surface plane or cockpit panel that Thick8 mentions is significant. This has mostly been solved thru optics and math running on the three on-board micro-controllers that PointCTRL employs. I think I will do a video explaining this in more detail. Basically, you can change the default "arm length" to what you are comfortable with, and as long as you keep your hand generally the same distance from the HMD as you move it though its field of view, you will keep the 1 to 1 ratio of real-world hand movement to the 3d environment. Moving your head will only have a small effect on cursor movement and pressing a button even less.

I had experience with this balancing act about six or seven years ago when my kids were playing call of duty. In the PC version you could move your aim-point independent of your view. Being a former Green Beret, I said, if you’re going to play this game, you are least going to stand up and hold a real weapon. I then proceeded to take apart a wireless Logitech game controller and replace the pots with photo resistor arrays. Both arrays, one pointed forward and one pointed backward, and the Logitech controller guts were mounted to the top rail of a AR15 carbine. 2 IR emitters were used, one in front of the Flat Screen TV, the other on a worn headband.

It kind of worked, If you kept a good check weld and moved the rifle, the aimpoint would move on the screen without the view moving, and if you moved your head independent of the rifle, the view would scroll in the direction you were looking. At that time, I did not have the experience with electronics and programming that I have now. Come to think of it, I think that project got me moving in the direction of this field.

PS. After some adult thought, I did move the device to an airsoft M4 carbine replica, and by the time I had it working my kids were interested in something else.

 

Miles

Edited October 12, 2018 by MilesD

[MilesD]

Sorry for the long post, I am trying to respond to as many questions and suggestions as I can.

 

@ Virus, Thanks for the suggestion. I think eventually there will be no need for PointCTRL as VR Headsets advance. I probably should not even be developing this, but I enjoy the challenge and I think it will be a few years before everything gets integrated into a workable solution for flight sim guys requirements.

PointCTRL does not use a standard camera like MVR, it uses an advanced IR sensor with 4k x 4k resolution capable of tracking 16 separate IR sources at 200FPS all independent of the PC. I have NDA's so I am unable to get into more specifics of this new sensor. This is not new technology, just improved. Think of it as an advanced Wii sensor. I may have mentioned this in the You tube comments, I have experimented with using 2 HMD sensors like Leap Motion or the new integrated MVRs that you mentioned. By using two cameras we can then calculate range of the FCU from the HMD. This eliminates the need to "calibrate your arm length" and makes the 1 to 1 ratio movement consistent, regardless of the distance of FCU to HMD. The down side to this that depending where our hardware (joysticks, chairs, desk,) are located, it can make it more difficult because objects are physically in the way of where we need to put our hand to flip a switch.

 

@ Shrike AU, Thanks for the link. That’s very interesting. I just wanted to make PointCTRL independent of any other hardware requirements for compatibility.

 

@ Anita95, I think this was from his you tube comments. You got me thinking about an onboard charger again, so I changed the design, AGAIN and added a port on the FCU to plug the charger into without having to remove the battery. You still maintain the ability to swap out the batteries if one dies during gameplay.

 

@ Thick8, I tried the 5 way switch but found it uncomfortable to use. The one I had, also put a torque on the FCU causing it to rotate on my finger. I can look at other types ,like the one you pictured in the future. The touch-surface had the problem you mentioned with being unsure on what button is being pressed. Thanks for the offer of the dome switches, but I just wasn't happy with the feel of them. The switches I ended up with are easy to identify which is which and the center switch has a slightly lower profile. I will post a pic wen I get a minute.

 

Thanks everyone and its back to work for me, and I will post a pic of the latest, final, final, latest, FCU as soon as I possible. I am really going to try and stop updating things, because my timeline is starting to slide.

Miles

Edited October 13, 2018 by MilesD
Added Respons