Modernised Mig 21?

[zcrazyx]

So with everyone creating polls i thought i'd make this one for us Mig 21 lovers.

 

I love the Mig 21 but it feels a bit out of place given the avionics compared to the M2K and all the 4th gen aircraft running around so i'm interested to see if anyone would actually be interested in a modernised version such as the -93 and LanceR.

 

Most of us would agree that the 21 is perhaps the hardest aircraft to land with exception of helicopters in DCS, so why not also make it a deadly foe in the skies with R77s and improved radar!

 

There also might be a possibility of an expanded ground ordnance suite as some version were capable of lazing targets giving the possibility of guided munitions in addition to some of the older systems we're used to.

 

If neither are within the realm of possibility then i suggest adding the Mig 21UM, now i know a lot of people will say oh no another trainer aircraft but hear me out. We have the L-39, we now have the Yak 52, so why not have a Mig21 UM? The 21 is perhaps one of the hardest aircraft to land in the game and has some very interesting operation characteristics in both flight and systems.

 

So share your thoughts! would you like this challenge and upgrade?

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by zcrazyx

[KilledAlive]

While it's a blast trying my best to take on aircraft with airframes and avionics far more advanced than I, it would be pretty amazing to try out the aircraft with fancy modern instruments and radar! Maybe, we could even get a gun sight that doesn't lie to you half the time in a dogfight!

[QuiGon]

Nah, we have the iconic MiG-21bis and that good enough for me. I would rather like them to spend their resources on something else.

[Kang]

Would I like to fly it? Sure. Would I want M3 to dedicate resources to it? No.

[Baco]

Hell yeah!

[Mars Exulte]

It would be cool to have, but as far as being 'out of place', it's not out of place with the F-5E, one of its real world foes, nor will it be out of place against the eventual F-4E or other 70s era aircraft coming down the pipeline in days (I mean years) ahead =)

[zcrazyx]

It would be cool to have, but as far as being 'out of place', it's not out of place with the F-5E, one of its real world foes, nor will it be out of place against the eventual F-4E or other 70s era aircraft coming down the pipeline in days (I mean years) ahead =)

 

I think the real issue at the moment is that they tweaked the flight model and now it flies so much different that everyone seems to think the critical aoa was lowered too much, an issue that is being looked into :P so hopefully they fix the bis before anything else happens, i just honestly wanna have an old airframe that i love be able to do similar things to the modern stuff, a mix of old and new if you will.

[jojo]

The problem isn’t what we want to fly, but what documentation they can get to replicate it...

[Dr_Arrow]

I would rather like to see older Mig-21 versions like MF, PFM or F-13, which would fit in far more scenarios.

[Kev2go]

So with everyone creating polls i thought i'd make this one for us Mig 21 lovers.

 

I love the Mig 21 but it feels a bit out of place given the avionics compared to the M2K and all the 4th gen aircraft running around so i'm interested to see if anyone would actually be interested in a modernised version such as the -93 and LanceR.

 

Most of us would agree that the 21 is perhaps the hardest aircraft to land with exception of helicopters in DCS, so why not also make it a deadly foe in the skies with R77s and improved radar!

 

There also might be a possibility of an expanded ground ordnance suite as some version were capable of lazing targets giving the possibility of guided munitions in addition to some of the older systems we're used to.

 

So share your thoughts! would you like this challenge and upgrade?

 

 

 

No the mig21bis isnt out of place. It's meant to represent a legacy era plane. Dcs is not strictly about modern era 21st century combat. It's clear they are bran hig out to cold war eras

 

 

Mig21bis is no longer an orphan iarcract. Its current contender is the f5e. Mig19 and mig23mla are wip.

 

Razbam also has plans for a mirage 3, and belsimtek has f4e as one of its projects in early wip stage. So the legacy era is being more and more fleshed out. And thus the mig21 will have more era appropriate opponents to face off against.

 

 

Ultimately the jf17 yhunder bu dekka will fill the void for a redforce 4th generation multimission fighter

Edited August 30, 2018 by Kev2go

[pepin1234]

I voted yes. Anyway F-13 will be better for a Vietnam.

[Vampyre]

I would rather like to see older Mig-21 versions like MF, PFM or F-13, which would fit in far more scenarios.

 

Exactly what I was going to post. :thumbup:

[zcrazyx]

While i do think about the older ones being introduced to sort of balance the Vietnam era I just think that having more variety in a module would extend the life and play time significantly hence why i suggested some of the new models, as someone said though, some systems or information might be classified or not available but I have to question this as a lot of the tech is from other aircraft such as targeting pod and weapons like the R77 which if i remember the Mig 29 uses.

 

Imho i believe the hardest system would be the radar as i'm fairly sure most countries don't want anyone to know the limitations of such a system.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

So with everyone creating polls i thought i'd make this one for us Mig 21 lovers.

 

I love the Mig 21 but it feels a bit out of place given the avionics compared to the M2K and all the 4th gen aircraft running around so i'm interested to see if anyone would actually be interested in a modernised version such as the -93 and LanceR.

 

It's not out of place. For many nations, it's a reality of their defense needs. If you need an air arm according to the defense needs your nation is facing and you can't afford much, it's whatever they can get their hands on. For many, that's the MiG-21.

[zcrazyx]

It's not out of place. For many nations, it's a reality of their defense needs. If you need an air arm according to the defense needs your nation is facing and you can't afford much, it's whatever they can get their hands on. For many, that's the MiG-21.

 

I'm talking in relation to DCS not real world politics. The reason I chose the LancR and 93 is because both are still in use, both have modern avionics, Sure many countries still use the Bis but i'm merely suggesting it would be nice to have an older airframe (in dcs) that can still fight against 4th gen as i believe that many people will not buy the Mig 21 on the basis it is meant to be an interceptor and dogfighter which in dcs at least only has one human foe, the F5E and with the recent update even that is now becoming out of the question.

 

Also not to mention the fact that some us Mig pilots wanna use guided munitions :P

 

the last thing i have to say is that at the least a BIS D version would be a nice change, updated ILS etc.

[AeriaGloria]

While in a perfect world it would come as either a free or paid update for biz owners to have two variants, but I don’t think there’ll be enough manpower I. DCS for 5-10years. Hopefully MAC grows things. Remembering old times in lock on made me get into DCS

[BeastyBaiter]

We desperately need a few modern-ish full fidelity red birds. The MiG-21-93 or better would help a lot. It isn't top of my wishlist, but it's better than nothing.

[zcrazyx]

We desperately need a few modern-ish full fidelity red birds. The MiG-21-93 or better would help a lot. It isn't top of my wishlist, but it's better than nothing.

 

We are getting the Mig 19 and 23, however one will be stuck in a weird spot between the 15/sabre and the Mig 21 and the other will not be a dogfighter.

[BeastyBaiter]

There is nothing modern about the MiG-19 or MiG-23. Don't get me wrong, I look forwards to both but there is a pretty big gap between full fidelity blue planes and the red counterparts. The JF-17 is the only thing announced so far and though I'm hopeful for it, it is being develped by an unproven team.

[zcrazyx]

There is nothing modern about the MiG-19 or MiG-23. Don't get me wrong, I look forwards to both but there is a pretty big gap between full fidelity blue planes and the red counterparts. The JF-17 is the only thing announced so far and though I'm hopeful for it, it is being develped by an unproven team.

 

Looks good so far but for sure we badly red redfor aircraft that are PFM and full fidelity. If not a modern air frame then at least from an avionics stand point. I love flying form with F18s but when they're seeing stuff 80 miles away and i can't tell who or what is locking me and sometimes not even that because of the rwr blind spots as well as the fact the radar is only good to 20km then you know we're out of date lmao.

 

I still love the idea of having a modernised Mig 21 in game because it's not too far off what we have now from a flying stand point. they feature similar systems to aircraft like the Mig 29, some are built as air superiority fighters and others ground attack which begs the question as to what the max landing weight is with BLC because in the mig its a bare airframe with 800ltr fuel.

 

In any event a Mig 21UM might be cool from a trainer stand point to complete the trifecta of aircraft off. Yak 52, L-39, Mig 21UM. then i can mess with the nozzle position and scare the trainee with engine surges and compressor stalls :P :megalol:

 

Also it'll help train the noobies to not barrel roll down the runway heh

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by zcrazyx

[Zius]

I'd buy it.

 

 

I think a modernised MiG-21 can be a decent fighter for a low-budget airforce and could (if employed well) still make life difficult for modern Blue fighters.

 

 

Even adding the R-73 (and HMS) to the Bis would already be a big improvement.

[pepin1234]

The only Mig-21 in the planet that can face a modern fighter is the Mig-21Bison. The other are just support.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I'm talking in relation to DCS not real world politics. The reason I chose the LancR and 93 is because both are still in use, both have modern avionics, Sure many countries still use the Bis but i'm merely suggesting it would be nice to have an older airframe (in dcs) that can still fight against 4th gen as i believe that many people will not buy the Mig 21 on the basis it is meant to be an interceptor and dogfighter which in dcs at least only has one human foe, the F5E and with the recent update even that is now becoming out of the question.

 

Also not to mention the fact that some us Mig pilots wanna use guided munitions :P

 

the last thing i have to say is that at the least a BIS D version would be a nice change, updated ILS etc.

 

If a sim's goal is to create the most realistic environment possible, then those realities have to be taken into consideration. These aircraft take on a role outside of defense; they become cultural icons. For so many nations, the lowest tech iterations of the -21 are their air defense backbones.

 

Granted, I'd love me some of the Croatian BisD just for the nice new NavAids. Though, that represents a pretty tiny part of the fleet. How do we pick which upgrade set?

 

Personally, I'd use the success of the upgrades, so the Indian Bisons would be the logical decision in my eyes,

[pepin1234]

Just make the Cuban modification that carry R-73. Imagine shoot head on and run away. That version work and worth it.

 

No extra mod in cockpit needed. (NavAidd, we already have NS430 Nav...)

 

https://goo.gl/images/FTzhsX

[Auditor]

I voted 'no', and let me explain why.

 

I would love nothing more than to be able to fly the 21-93 or the LanceR. I think those would be great additions to DCS. That said; I would rather the Mig-21bis that we have RIGHT NOW work than for resources to be moved to a completely new project. As you can see; it's a big laundry list of problems that exist with the current module. Some of these problems are well over three years old. I don't want to say that maybe there wouldn't be interest in the future, but I don't want to set our sights too high. I feel pressuring M3 to start on a new project when they theoretically have three other projects going on right now (21, CE2, Corsair) is the wrong move and is putting pressure where pressure doesn't belong.

 

If we were going to vote about modernization programs that we could apply in our current situation; my vote goes to the BisD. Croatia's modernization program. Same Mig-21bis, but has some niceties like the NS430 mounted, better location of AoA indicator, and completely new radio stacks built-in. Including a Navigation radio and a dual-band V/UHF radio.

 

 

 

 

 

This accomplishes two very important things. For one it's enough of an upgrade to be compatible with the other modernized aircraft who aren't limited to twenty radio channels and 99 RSBN channels. But most importantly: This minor upgrade would force M3 to keep working on improvements for the bis as it is the basis for the bisD. Not only that, it is the perfect way to modernize the aircraft without changing too much about how it flies, what it's armed with, or what time period it belongs in.

 

The bisD is really just the same early 80's/late 70's 21 we all know and love with a few modern niceties bolted on, and I would have it no other way.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Auditor