Full 8min align, quick option in special tab?

[Agrrregat]

This is simulator, not arcade game. Everyone is in a hurry. why?

This is a beautiful game in which you can relax and take away from the nerves of work or everyday life.

8 mins is far enough to relax, prepare before flight, check mission, update playlist and open a beer! :D

[Alicatt]

 

Ah JHMS Joined Helmet Mounted Simulation

[tekrc]

Ah JHMS Joined Helmet Mounted Simulation

 

:thumbup:

[wowbagger]

This is simulator, not arcade game. Everyone is in a hurry. why?

This is a beautiful game in which you can relax and take away from the nerves of work or everyday life.

8 mins is far enough to relax, prepare before flight, check mission, update playlist and open a beer! :D

 

Spoken like someone without children ... or at least my children. :cry_2:

 

:D

[Bull0369]

 

if you honestly cant wait 2.5 minutes for something then go fly the fc3 planes where you dont have to wait on the ins at all. or fly the cat in game mode/avionics (if it works on the cat) to simplify things like you can in other modules. (though I dont know of any servers supporting that off the top of my head)

 

2.5 I might tolerate. Just saw jabbers vid and hope this is the norm. I dont wear a flight suit to sim. Heck I dont wear a tac rig when I fps game either... But I do enjoy and PAY for good content. I simply hope there are 2 options 1 for people that already have their beer and Preflight BM complete and a second for those that dont and like to dilly dally and wait 20 minutes. Ill be in the former group always.

 

Edit: phone fat fingered

Edited March 11, 2019 by Bull0369

[hi41000]

people in this thread say that this is suppose to be a 100 percent realistic simulator and we cant allow those damn pesky people to take off to fast!

 

but then why does dcs have two different control schemes for aircraft, one for real and the other for game? why is there an option in the game to start in the air, on the tarmac hot and on the runway hot?

why is there the option for external views, labels, infinite weapons fuel and be immortal? why is there an option to disable birds and random system failures or g effects? hell for most aircraft you have the option of just saying screw it and you can start most of your aircraft with the press of button

:doh:

at the end of the day the alignment is not related to skill. in multiplayer you could take off and twenty seconds be shot down because you had to sit 4+ minutes waiting your your ins to align just to use your weapons.

not to mention realistically f14 pilots could have a stored heading alignment on their aircraft to allow a faster start up. But that option should be in the special for the users choice if they want the full experience of 8-9 minutes or waiting for the 2 minutes.

 

Finally don't forget not everyone flies several hours in one session, most fly for an hour or even less which means roughly 10 percent of you flying in the f14 (if you do cold start) is just waiting for the ins to align on the tarmac, just waiting. it gets even worse if you decided you wanted to take off from a carrier because it takes longer! its even worse for multiplayer missions that involve attacking airfields which means you can be killed just upon taking off in the f14 after waiting so long.

[Max_Rogue]

wait hours for what? the flight briefing before hand? getting dressed? those are things people already do. get dressed, sit down, read what the mission is, get in the pit, and go. a sim simply simulates. doesnt mean we are about to fly the real thing. but the goal remains the same as in the military sims. to simulate the aircraft in as much detail as possible which has been the goal of DCS from the start and should continue to be without taking unnecessary shortcuts or simplifications for the aircraft itself. not all of the interactions on the ground

I dont know why you call this time "arbitrary" it wasnt just pulled out of a hat. inertial navigation alignment actually takes time. airliners, military aircraft both have to wait for this to be complete. durring that time however the pilots are busy doing the planning actions for the flight. setting flight route for example or planning target ingress/egress.

 

also we dont need instant ins because we already have the faster stored heading align which is a real thing in the aircraft taking less than 3 minutes and you will be waiting for waypoint entry anyway which will still take time. you arnt just sitting there doing nothing while waiting for the ins and I dont understand where this idea comes from. if youre doing nothing in the 2.5 mins the ins takes in ASHA then you missed something you should probably be doing.

 

if you honestly cant wait 2.5 minutes for something then go fly the fc3 planes where you dont have to wait on the ins at all. or fly the cat in game mode/avionics (if it works on the cat) to simplify things like you can in other modules. (though I dont know of any servers supporting that off the top of my head)

 

 

This is how I feel about it. Thank you for putting my thoughts into the words I couldn't find, haha.

[tekrc]

I dont wear a flight suit to sim. Heck I dont wear a tac rig when I fps game either...

 

I mean I wear a flight suit but mostly because its comfortable for me. its my "around the house" wear

[mkosmo]

This is simulator, not arcade game. Everyone is in a hurry. why?

This is a beautiful game in which you can relax and take away from the nerves of work or everyday life.

8 mins is far enough to relax, prepare before flight, check mission, update playlist and open a beer! :D

 

Because people want to simulate the flying, not the ground setup.

[tekrc]

people in this thread say that this is suppose to be a 100 percent realistic simulator and we cant allow those damn pesky people to take off to fast!

 

but then why does dcs have two different control schemes for aircraft, one for real and the other for game? why is there an option in the game to start in the air, on the tarmac hot and on the runway hot?

why is there the option for external views, labels, infinite weapons fuel and be immortal? why is there an option to disable birds and random system failures or g effects? hell for most aircraft you have the option of just saying screw it and you can start most of your aircraft with the press of button

:doh:

at the end of the day the alignment is not related to skill. in multiplayer you could take off and twenty seconds be shot down because you had to sit 4+ minutes waiting your your ins to align just to use your weapons.

not to mention realistically f14 pilots could have a stored heading alignment on their aircraft to allow a faster start up. But that option should be in the special for the users choice if they want the full experience of 8-9 minutes or waiting for the 2 minutes.

 

Finally don't forget not everyone flies several hours in one session, most fly for an hour or even less which means roughly 10 percent of you flying in the f14 (if you do cold start) is just waiting for the ins to align on the tarmac, just waiting. it gets even worse if you decided you wanted to take off from a carrier because it takes longer! its even worse for multiplayer missions that involve attacking airfields which means you can be killed just upon taking off in the f14 after waiting so long.

 

it has nothing to do with how fast people can take off. they should have to wait because you actually have to wait for this system to work like you do in the a10, f18, av8, and whatever else. this wait is not a new concept and no one was complaining when the a10 made people wait that I saw. why complain about a similar time for the cat? on top of that it isnt just about making the waypoints more accurate its integrated in to the weapon system. if you break it or dont do a full alignment the system will suffer.

 

those options exist for mission makers to adjust the accessibility/difficulty of a mission. added to those options will be the stored heading alignment nearly eliminating the wait. that option should remain in the mission maker or server's hands to let them control how they want their scenario played. could force you to wait so you hear an audio message briefing or whatever.

even with the aircraft you start with the press of a button you have to wait for the process to finish so I dont see the point here. also most servers/mission makers will probably leave ASHA on to be nice. though depending on the scenario there could be a reason for a full align. the ONLY reason to ask for it in the special option is the simple fear of mission makers not giving you your shortcut.if they dont, play somewhere else

 

no, ins alignment isnt a skill. but it brings a new decision for the crew (and also potential for creating error typing in bad coords and not correcting it). you can either leave early and have a less accurate ins and possibly run into issues later as a result, or wait and be sure. also no one said you had to do a fine alignment every time. if you just want to do the alert status and just go shoot who you run into then go for it and save a few minutes. if its a dogfight server where aim 7 and 54s are not in play you dont even need that and can go with a coarse align.

 

if people are FLYING for hours at a time that 8 minutes really isnt a lot. if it is actually 10% of the time as you claim, thats sales tax in some states here. I have heard no one complaining about that 10% tax (other than other states having lower. but not about the tax existing which the same ideal can be applied to dcs. other planes might align faster but no one saying get rid of ins). its considered acceptable cost for what you get. if 10% of my flight is aligning the ins so the other 90% goes well thats acceptable cost for what I am getting from that evening.

 

the carrier time is only 1.9 mins TOTAL on the in ASHA which in the video example is actually FASTER than on land taking the sluggish pace of just 2.1 mins. which thinking about it is as long as it takes players to go through the arming window and crew to load the plane. so why not:

1. start the engines and start the ins warming up.

2. rearm. by the time that is done you should be aligned or close to

 

so again.... you are going to complain this much over 2 minutes? and complain this much about an option we already have?

Edited March 11, 2019 by tekrc

[Matchstick]

I don’t like air-quake either. So no one else should be allowed the option. I don’t care if the mission designers can force required alignments so that I can choose to play in “realistic” servers. Everyone should play like me.

 

This is an example of Poe's Law, right ?

[Bull0369]

I mean I wear a flight suit but mostly because its comfortable for me. its my "around the house" wear

 

I have a few from my instructor days in the Corps - but to put that thing on now, yeah not gonna happen - its comfy, but it isnt something I would wear around the house.

[hi41000]

leave early and have a less accurate ins and possibly run into issues later as a result, if its a dogfight server where aim 7 and 54s are not in play you dont even need that and can go with a coarse align.

 

if people are FLYING for hours at a time that 8 minutes really isnt a lot. if it is actually 10% of the time as you claim, other planes might align faster but no one saying get rid of ins). its considered acceptable cost for what you get. if 10% of my flight is aligning the ins so the other 90% goes well thats acceptable cost for what I am getting from that evening.

 

the carrier time is only 1.9 mins TOTAL on the in ASHA which in the video example is actually FASTER than on land taking the sluggish pace of just 2.1 mins. which thinking about it is as long as it takes players to go through the arming window and crew to load the plane. so why not:

1. start the engines and start the ins warming up.

2. rearm. by the time that is done you should be aligned or close to

 

you are going to complain this much over 2 minutes? and complain this much about an option we already have?

i dont mind the 2 minutes and i am not complaining about that i am complaining, infact i am perfectly content with that alignment time, i am complaining about the potentially forced 8-9 minute wait since the ASH is actually a mission editor feature which means its server side, not a user choice

 

also i dont know what your math or your reading skills are. i never said that pilots fly for several hours i said that people do not fly for ever hours. also for 8 minute alignment that's 10 percent of the flight if you fly for 80 minutes or ~72 minutes in the air. assuming you just want weapons capability then that's roughly 6 percent for a land start, assuming you start from a carrier which should be just as common since its a naval fighter then that's 10 percent for 60 minutes total (assumption is since carrier ins alignment takes longer it will thus take longer for weapons also).

not to mention you need the second last tier of alignment if you even want to be able to launch aim 54s/aim 7s. sure yeah if you really play on dog fight servers you dont need to wait that long but that isnt the point, its about the servers where its not just dogfight servers, dogfight servers are also incredibly rare. as in if i search for a dogfight server specifically there is a singular one although i assume some other servers are also just dogfight but do not state such

 

 

also there are people specifically saying that it should not because then it would be like airquake, if that doesnt imply they dont want them to take off to fast then i dont know what does. what OnlyforDCS stated not count or other users posts?

Edited March 12, 2019 by hi41000

[gorgar0]

For us with time constrains.

Will we have the "Full 8min alignment", pre-aligned option in special tab?

/Thank you!

 

There is an option (for now anyway): Time Accelerate LCTL-Z

Edited March 12, 2019 by gorgar0

[tekrc]

There is an option (for now anyway): Time Accelerate LCTL-Z

 

not for MP

[tekrc]

i dont mind the 2 minutes and i am not complaining about that i am complaining, infact i am perfectly content with that alignment time, i am complaining about the potentially forced 8-9 minute wait since the ASH is actually a mission editor feature which means its server side, not a user choice

 

also i dont know what your math or your reading skills are. i never said that pilots fly for several hours i said that people do not fly for ever hours. also for 8 minute alignment that's 10 percent of the flight if you fly for 80 minutes or ~72 minutes in the air. assuming you just want weapons capability then that's roughly 6 percent for a land start, assuming you start from a carrier which should be just as common since its a naval fighter then that's 10 percent for 60 minutes total (assumption is since carrier ins alignment takes longer it will thus take longer for weapons also).

not to mention you need the second last tier of alignment if you even want to be able to launch aim 54s/aim 7s. sure yeah if you really play on dog fight servers you dont need to wait that long but that isnt the point, its about the servers where its not just dogfight servers, dogfight servers are also incredibly rare. as in if i search for a dogfight server specifically there is a singular one although i assume some other servers are also just dogfight but do not state such

 

 

also there are people specifically saying that it should not because then it would be like airquake, if that doesnt imply they dont want them to take off to fast then i dont know what does. what OnlyforDCS stated not count or other users posts?

 

welcome to the real plane where most launches were probably not be done in SHA. mission makers should keep control because you dont actually have that with every launch it has to be done prior like in an alert 5 setting and as a result isnt something available to the crew for every launch. us getting the option at all is a shortcut. guessing you missed the part where I pointed out the carrier align was actually faster than on land with SHA? only takes longer for a full align. also with a CV align the ship provides the lat/lon for you so time is saved not typing that in. things to consider.

 

that same math applies to the a10 which I dont see people complaining takes too long with the "forced" alignment for next to the same time spent. if the extra few minute wait is really that bad this might not be the module for you? no one is asking to shorten the a10 ins, why does it matter so much if the 14 has to do its full align just the same? and why is it only a problem with the 14 not the a10? if you seriously dont have time to do the preflight maybe take a different plane that has less or no wait time required

 

finishing at that tier takes 5 minutes which is still saving time which again is crew choice. by that point you should be finishing getting everything else done so it shouldnt be a big issue anyway. you have things to do. do them. take advantage of the time setting up wps, decm, or whatever else

 

dont know what airquake does. never been on. simply put I dont care if you leave in 8 mins or 1 as long as you get the appropriate consequence for doing so. or as long as everyone has the same shortcut. and I also dont know what people's experiences are there so I cant speak for them nor do I expect them to speak for me. if they dont like airquake's way of doing things, I imagine they play on a server that does things they do like. the same should apply here.

 

there is such a thing as plane spam where players will just throw themselves at the enemy since fc3 planes have no wait time and is a big advantage against those that have to wait or chose something that requires a wait. simply because it takes longer per respawn. if everyone has the same wait between takeoffs that removes that particular balance issue

ie if we have a mission where mig 29s vs 14s and its a go kill as many as possible of the other team in a time limit (not saying it exists but one example) or a ground attack mission where one has to destroy a group of targets being guarded by the 29s, those 29s have a large advantage over the attacking force because they dont have to "wait" like the 14s do for every death and get in the air and back in the ao well before the 14s can so a forced wait for the 29s actually makes sense to level the playing field a bit.

 

but again I dont know what exactly they do

 

and regardless. if the mission maker wants people to slow down rate of departures then let them control how their server/mission is played and play somewhere else if its honestly that big of a deal but I dont think these shortcuts should be client side for any aircraft and only penalizes people that want to fly more realistically because those that dont will have already left them behind using shortcuts

Edited March 12, 2019 by tekrc

[draconus]

Since you're all for simulated realism. I hope you'll consider these situations & adhere to them every time you simulate in DCS.

 

When you come back to the boat Winchester, for a full rearming & refueling, wait for +20min- Yeah, that's the RL TAT for the F-14.

 

Repair takes 3min in DCS- not so realistic...

 

Don't pull Max-G's for for hours in dogfights, DCS isn't calculating pilot's G-fatigue over time! :smilewink:

Who says that these should stay on? I would be glad if these 3 shortcomings of DCS were fixed/removed. But since a few years with DCS and on the ED forums I learned that options are good. So let's have them all including the FastINS under the "Game" settings button.

 

 

As for those time constrained - there are always hot starts and air starts.

[Bull0369]

The simple way, but possibly intensive response would to include BOTH - those that want to wait and those that do not wish to - allowing the USER to chose the route. I imagine most would take the shortcut - it is arbitrary to the process of flight when it comes to a simulator. Waiting for NO REASON is exactly that, a waste of time.

[mojomonkey]

Amazed nobody has gone here, given the incredible character portrayed and the success of the movie last year. Accordingly, I must:

 

 

I pity your wife if you think 8 minutes is forever

[FragBum]

Here's a thought all the purest's saying you gotta wait 8 minutes will change their mind after actually having waiting 8 minutes for the um tenth time,.. Just saying. :music_whistling:

[Strikeeagle345]

Can someone fill me in on what "air-quake" is so I can follow along? HAHA

[Eldur]

;3831013']Most servers will probably do the ASH option' date=' which is no different in time that the alignment in the hornet.[/quote']

 

Actually it is. The hornet takes a minute longer

 

And actually loading up DCS takes MUCH longer as well. It's a whole minute alone until the actual DCS screen opens up from double clicking the icon. Then 3-5 minutes on top of that to load up the map. And in the Viggen it's at least half a minute with a totally black cockpit until that's loaded as well, on top of it. I expect the Tomcat to take longer as well... That's on an SSD, no m.2 though.

 

Spoken like someone without children

 

True fact, but TBH: Everyone with children who still has some time to fly is a lucky git. Literally everyone with children I know personally stopped gaming altogether simply due to the lack of time. And if they didn't their sessions are like 10 minutes at best, maybe once or twice a week. You just couldn't DCS in that timeframe anyway

[Strikeeagle345]

The hornet alignment isn't even implemented yet, so if you guys are waiting thinking it does something, skip it for now.

[Bull0369]

The hornet alignment isn't even implemented yet, so if you guys are waiting thinking it does something, skip it for now.

 

I actually burst out laughing imagining someone waiting - for no reason, and then seeing them realize as we all do how silly it is to wait for NOTHING. That almost single handed proves the point.

[Strikeeagle345]

I actually burst out laughing imagining someone waiting - for no reason, and then seeing them realize as we all do how silly it is to wait for NOTHING. That almost single handed proves the point.

 

yeah it cracks me up to see / hear the traction of people once they learn it isnt implemented yet.:lol: