Why wont DCS listen to us the customers

[Jim L]

When are DCS going to listen to us the customers, I am becoming increasingly frustrated with being told something is w.i.p. and it takes time but will happen sometime. Not good enough DCS.

Other flight sims etc. have the ability to take hold of throttle and stick for a couple of years now and you seem no nearer implementing it, why not, you do not even give a straight answer when asked, just w.i.p. .

I have requested along with others to have this implementation for a couple of years now and its still nowhere to be seen and DCS do not keep us up to date on progress, do they not want to give it to us. Maybe they need to fix some of the things they have taken our money for before bringing out new planes etc to take even more of our cash.

What do you think ?

I appreciate it is difficult to implement but if other programers can do it I am sure the team at DCS with all their expertise can do it as well.

Look forward to hearing comments

:mad:

[BigDuke6ixx]

Other flight sims etc. have the ability to take hold of throttle and stick for a couple of years now and you seem no nearer implementing it, why not, you do not even give a straight answer when asked, just w.i.p. .

 

What does that even mean?

[hansangb]

When are DCS going to listen to us the customers, I am becoming increasingly frustrated with being told something is w.i.p. and it takes time but will happen sometime. Not good enough DCS.

Other flight sims etc. have the ability to take hold of throttle and stick for a couple of years now and you seem no nearer implementing it, why not, you do not even give a straight answer when asked, just w.i.p. .

I have requested along with others to have this implementation for a couple of years now and its still nowhere to be seen and DCS do not keep us up to date on progress, do they not want to give it to us. Maybe they need to fix some of the things they have taken our money for before bringing out new planes etc to take even more of our cash.

What do you think ?

I appreciate it is difficult to implement but if other programers can do it I am sure the team at DCS with all their expertise can do it as well.

Look forward to hearing comments

:mad:

 

 

I'm guessing you're referring to use the VR hand controllers to act like a joystick? My guess would be that *overwhelming* number of DCS users would prefer a real HOTAS. I'm just going by my gut and all the discussions in the forum. I would NEVER fly DCS with a controller acting as a joystick. A few years from now, if the haptic feedback is perfected, and the Captogloves of the world become reality, then I would revisit my opinion.

 

But we're pretty far away from that happening.

[Svsmokey]

Because most of us don't care to see amputated hands floating around the cockpit , and find flying with VR controllers unrealistic as compared to using a stick and throttle . As exciting as it is , VR users represent as yet only a very small portion of the DCS community (prolly single-digit percentage) , and of those , only a very few (prolly single-digit percentage) wish to fly with VR controllers .

So yeah , pretty low on the priority scale .

[DeltaMike]

I wouldn't know. Never wrote a line of code, never got venture capital, never had a budget to model complex electronic equipment or flight physics and don't have the data or math expertise to do that anyway, don't know how CPU's or GPU's work, never had to market a niche software product, never had to adapt 10 year old code to evolving VR technology. So, unfortunately, I am unable to comment :/

[Svsmokey]

I wouldn't know. Never wrote a line of code, never got venture capital, never had a budget to model complex electronic equipment or flight physics and don't have the data or math expertise to do that anyway, don't know how CPU's or GPU's work, never had to market a niche software product, never had to adapt 10 year old code to evolving VR technology. So, unfortunately, I am unable to comment :/

 

Nice non-comment :thumbup:

[NeilWillis]

In a word, a very low priority given the need for HOTAS in all but WW2 modules. Will it Happen? Who really cares when it brings so little to the immersion.

 

There are simply MUCH higher priorities.

[Jim L]

Because most of us don't care to see amputated hands floating around the cockpit , and find flying with VR controllers unrealistic as compared to using a stick and throttle . As exciting as it is , VR users represent as yet only a very small portion of the DCS community (prolly single-digit percentage) , and of those , only a very few (prolly single-digit percentage) wish to fly with VR controllers .

So yeah , pretty low on the priority scale .

 

Just because it don't work for you does not mean it wont work for others, no one is forcing you to have it, it is another means of immersion to some and there are a lot of people out there do want it.

[Svsmokey]

Just because it don't work for you does not mean it wont work for others, no one is forcing you to have it, it is another means of immersion to some and there are a lot of people out there do want it.

 

You appear to have missed entirely my point...5% of 5%= low priority

[Jim L]

You appear to have missed entirely my point...5% of 5%= low priority

 

on what do you base your assumption that its 5% of 5% and that its low priority, what is your priority because if controls don't work then nothing does or is DCS only there to supply your requirements.

[SmirkingGerbil]

They do listen, quite well in my experience. Been here since 2011 (registered in Steam first). Since then I have seen other titles walk away from games, or abandon them altogether. Other titles have done 180's on design philosophy an driven away the playerbase. I can't name these titles due to 1.6 (I think), but compared to many other titles . . . DCS does very very well.

 

You just need to be patient, as the scope of what they are developing in ambition is much larger than what other developers attempt.

 

Again, without getting into other titles, many have claimed a "World" environment, DCS is the only one that has truly integrated worlds via Combined Arms, maps, and aircraft modules. Plus the Mission Editor and scripting add on's is one of the most powerful I have seen.

 

 

Breath, relax, it will happen.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Just because it don't work for you does not mean it wont work for others, no one is forcing you to have it, it is another means of immersion to some and there are a lot of people out there do want it.

 

 

It's not at all immersive, is hideously unintuitive, works badly, if at all, for tracking in a cockpit rig where your hands aren't always seen by the sensors. Great if you sit in a typist chair in an open space and don't like realistic controls though.

 

The more I think about, the more i understand why is a no priority feature.

 

I hope they continue to listen to me and not bother with such nonsense.

[sohei]

You may really want this feature, but very few people as far as I can make out would replace physical HOTAS with haptic feedback. The technology is just nowhere near reliable enough at this point in time.

 

So the devs at DCS aren't going to prioritise a very low demand feature which will be a pain to develop and will require a lot of bug fixing and constant updates to improve it just because you want it. And to be honest I really think you're better off relying on a decen HOTAS which is going to be far more rewarding an experience and will give you far superior control over the aircraft of your choice.

[tintifaxl]

on what do you base your assumption that its 5% of 5% and that its low priority, what is your priority because if controls don't work then nothing does or is DCS only there to supply your requirements.

 

But controls do work, don't they? Keyboard, DX devices, even FFB works quite well. ;) What you want is a non issue for most of the users, as you can see by the responses here. :music_whistling:

[BIGNEWY]

Hi

 

ED do listen, many wish list items get added to the sim.

 

Sometimes it can get very busy and it may seem like nothing is happening ( especially during the summer months as we have team members on holidays), but I can assure you all ED are working very hard and VR Improvements continue to be worked on.

 

 

Thanks

[Savvy]

I thought the VR hotas idea worked really well in another game that was built from the ground up for VR controllers. However personally I'd have no use for it in DCS and don't see how it would work.

 

 

There are many many functions on the hotas stick itself with coolie hats, DMS, Trim etc etc which couldn't be replicated in VR. Having to use keyboard for these extra functions would surely kill immersion even more.

Aside from that, I just can't see how anyone would be able to perform fine functions like refuel with VR controlelrs. I don't think you'd have the control required over the fine movements, not to mention having to hold your arm up in the air for extended periods.

 

 

Look at the current method of flipping switches in VR. You basically point at the switch and flick your finger? To go the other way you have to turn your hand upside down and do the same thing like you're trying to tickle it. Can't see how that is remotely immersive and to me seems a bit of a fun gimmick that allows them to tick the feature box of 'yes you can use hand controllers'

 

Considering the complexity of these systems, the age of the code, the speed in which new tech comes around and the small niche of the market they have to work with - I'd say ED are doing a really quite remarkable job to be where they are now.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Savvy
ugly formatting

[XtraChrisP]

I could see this feature being quite nice for manipulating stitches, pushing buttons on MFDs etc, but I honestly can't see this being even close to the feel of a good HOTAS in your hands.

[eaglecash867]

Why add the ability to grab phantom flight controls with phantom hands? I'd rather have real flight controls that I grab with my real hands. I don't need to see my hands to know where they are on a HOTAS, either in game or in real life. My guess is that ED "doesn't listen" when there's not much demand for a feature that a vocal minority thinks is important. Unfortunately, they are a business, and they have to focus their efforts on more important things. My advice would be to stick with those other sims, and hope that some day they produce a sim with aircraft as complex as some of the aircraft/sensor/weapons system combinations in DCS modules. I'm sure having phantom hands on phantom flight controls will make up for the other shortcomings. :doh:

[hansangb]

I could see this feature being quite nice for manipulating stitches, pushing buttons on MFDs etc, but I honestly can't see this being even close to the feel of a good HOTAS in your hands.

 

PointCTRL does that today.

[mdee]

When are DCS going to listen to us the customers

 

I personally don't care about whatever that thing you asking for is, so speak for yourself (unless you are a royalty).

[NeilWillis]

So. in a nutshell, ED are listening, they act on priority stuff as soon as they can. The problem here is that your request simply isn't something many people want or need. Add to that the much higher priority stuff, and you have yourself a perfect storm. It may happen someday, but I wouldn't get impatient simply because you asked for it and it hasn't happened.

 

Just appreciate the number of other requests that take a higher place on the list because they are wanted by more people, and add more to the sim.

[BaD CrC]

Is Jim L actually talking about VR controllers or captogloves? I am not sure I understand the reason of the first post.

[Sperrfeuer]

neither do I

[Fri13]

Look at the current method of flipping switches in VR. You basically point at the switch and flick your finger? To go the other way you have to turn your hand upside down and do the same thing like you're trying to tickle it. Can't see how that is remotely immersive and to me seems a bit of a fun gimmick that allows them to tick the feature box of 'yes you can use hand controllers'

 

That is the current limitation that ED should fix ASAP.

 

It shouldn't be a challenge of any kind for developer there to simply make the two buttons on both controllers act as mouse buttons, and use the touch sensitivity as well (the controller recognizes when your finger touches any of the buttons, stick or the touch button or the grip).

 

The idea to use a trigger and 12'clock axis as switch between Left/Right click is just abysmal.

 

Instead make the mini-stick press as a re-center view and the menu button to open the menu. And that way free A/B and X/Y buttons as left/right clicks.

[Mars Exulte]

Just because it don't work for you does not mean it wont work for others, no one is forcing you to have it, it is another means of immersion to some and there are a lot of people out there do want it.

 

Your initial comment about 'we the customers' nonsense, it isn't 'we the customer' it's 'I the random guy who is inflating my own importance and desires'.

 

It's not something likely to come anytime soon on the grounds it's utterly useless. You might be able to do it with a Yak or CE, but virtually everything else requires too many controls, meaning an ACTUAL HOTAS is preferable to the poor precision and functionless mess of ''VR stick''.

 

It's fine for you to request it, but leave the drama at the door, yo. You're vastly outnumbered and far less important than you think. Log your request and move on, accepting that what you're asking for is an extremely uncommon, low priority niche desire. It's not bad, but you're not representative of much more than yourself in this particular case.