Tiger is a dog?

[virulosity]

I just bought this module as it looked like a fun light small plane that should be a good dogfighter yeah? Well, so far every 1v1 fight I have had this plane just bleeds off speed once you get into a turning fight and it's all over. It feels like I'd be better off in an SU-25. Is this a bug? Are the FC3 aircraft just way unrealistically good? I have flown pretty much every aircraft DCS has to offer now that they are free to try, and I already owned F-18, F-16, M2000, AV8, FC3. This airplane seems worse than anything else I have flown. Am I missing something?

[MAXsenna]

Yeah. The AI, and speed is life in this one...

 

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[RustBelt]

Also you do have to think energy conservation in the F-5. It's not a power fighter like all the FC3 Fighters are. Your first job is to never let it get slower than 350. Then worry about shooting. To do that you need to be proactive on power input before you move the stick so the engines can keep up. Stay high and don't get suckered into a vertical fight if at all possible.

[Sting57]

LOL learn how to fly :-). This is not a yank and bank AC. You need to study its flight characteristics and practice to master them.

[RentedAndDented]

Well yeah, it's a light fighter with only as much installed thrust as it weighs when empty. It's not exactly truly a slouch, but in modern fighter terms it is underpowered.

And yet, the aggressors make it work very well. It can be done, it just needs proficiency.

I find it very difficult to beat an AI F-15 and it's not because it has endless power, it's because the AI F-15 seems to have no control issues at low speed, and you can see the plane 'cheat' as the nose yaws around and it crabs to point at you when it is very slow.

I can get him slow, but he then seems to fly like a Hornet.

[Paradox]

People often don't realise the corner speed on this thing is actually very high. Much higher than its main adversary the MiG-21.

 

Dogfighting is difficult to learn. I had hoped that the ACM campaigns would be a help for me but alas not really, they're just roundabout, long, very nicely voice acted ways to get you into almost unwinnable fights with broken AI planes.

[virulosity]

LOL learn how to fly :-). This is not a yank and bank AC. You need to study its flight characteristics and practice to master them.

 

That's the goal :)

 

To be fair, I did a quick search on YouTube and couldn't find any videos of 1v1 guns kills (on a reasonably modern fighter) where the pilot was able to actually maneuver onto the bandits 6. But, I agree haven't had a chance to study the performance curves of this aircraft to be able to posture the fight into an advantage (if there is one).

[iantron]

I've noticed that the AI F5s in the bfm campaign will always overtake me in a slow spiral.

 

I feel like the F5 is enough underpowered wrt more modern fighters that conserving energy is a battle against time. You probably can't maintain an energy advantage in BFM. Use superior roll rate to your advantage if you're on the defensive.

 

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[TaleSpin]

@virulosity:

 

I would like to highly recommend you "Growling Sidewinder" on Youtube, if you don't already know the channel.

 

He does a lot of dogfights with different aircraft and a Tacview analysis in the end - I learnd a lot there!

[Odey]

I find it very difficult to beat an AI F-15 and it's not because it has endless power, it's because the AI F-15 seems to have no control issues at low speed, and you can see the plane 'cheat' as the nose yaws around and it crabs to point at you when it is very slow.

I can get him slow, but he then seems to fly like a Hornet.

 

Yep, for a big jet the Eagle does extremely well slow with high Alfa. Both Macdonald Douglas jets. Coincidence ? :thumbup:

[LordOrion]

<cut> Am I missing something?

 

 

Yes, you are missing some energy management: F-5E is not supermaneuverable like Su-27 but yet is a very good doghfighter if proper handled.

It gave its best in turn fights when you manage to keep speed between 400 and 300 knots (best turn radius can be get at 360 knots circa): the fact that you bleed too much energy when turning probably means that you are pushing back the stick too much. Try to be more gentle, keep an eye on the air speed indicator and add some throttle power to compensate.

 

 

Also, take a look at this:

[virulosity]

Yeah I have been watching a lot of his videos, actually what got me interested in DCS! The only video he has with an F5 I could find is him flying circles around it in a M2000 :P

 

 

@virulosity:

 

I would like to highly recommend you "Growling Sidewinder" on Youtube, if you don't already know the channel.

 

He does a lot of dogfights with different aircraft and a Tacview analysis in the end - I learnd a lot there!

[virulosity]

I was able to do this and win against an AI MiG-19P. I think part of the problem is that AI likes to go vertical and I can't match climb rate with the F-5. I'll keep adjusting strategy. Thanks for the video, definitely addresses the main issue.

 

Something that helped big time was adding WAY more curvature to the stick than other models, and I limited saturation to 80% to start with. It's really easy to over command the surfaces into stall, this perhaps is more realistic than the other flight models (or because this plane isn't fly by wire IRL).

 

Yes, you are missing some energy management: F-5E is not supermaneuverable like Su-27 but yet is a very good doghfighter if proper handled.

It gave its best in turn fights when you manage to keep speed between 400 and 300 knots (best turn radius can be get at 360 knots circa): the fact that you bleed too much energy when turning probably means that you are pushing back the stick too much. Try to be more gentle, keep an eye on the air speed indicator and add some throttle power to compensate.

 

 

Also, take a look at this:

Edited May 1, 2020 by virulosity

[TaleSpin]

Somewhere else there was the conclusion that there is no sense in practising dogfight vs AI - they fly outside the physical laws sometimes.. You have to go online. The "Just dogfight" Server is a good starten point.

[S. Low]

The AI in this game is atrocious

[rinkerbuck]

The F5 is not an easy aircraft to win with against most of what we have in the game it's own age or newer but it is really rewarding and fun in general. And yeah the AI sucks. It's either completely stupid and not a challenge or a super robot defying the laws of physics and pilot endurance

[Exorcet]

The F-5 is an old underpowered fighter. In DCS raw performance plays a bit too much of a role in determining who wins, at least with AI, since they have perfect SA. In real life the F-5 would be better able to use its small visual size to deny SA and, while still underperforming compared to most fighters, at least have the ability to mislead or confuse its opponent to force a mistake.

[Mars Exulte]

I just bought this module as it looked like a fun light small plane that should be a good dogfighter yeah? Well, so far every 1v1 fight I have had this plane just bleeds off speed once you get into a turning fight and it's all over. It feels like I'd be better off in an SU-25. Is this a bug? Are the FC3 aircraft just way unrealistically good? I have flown pretty much every aircraft DCS has to offer now that they are free to try, and I already owned F-18, F-16, M2000, AV8, FC3. This airplane seems worse than anything else I have flown. Am I missing something?

 

''Worse than'' F-16, F-18, Mirage etc? Really? A 3rd gen 1960s light fighter designed for cheap mass production is inferior to 2000s era frontline superfighters?

[RentedAndDented]

Yes, you are missing some energy management: F-5E is not supermaneuverable like Su-27 but yet is a very good doghfighter if proper handled.

It gave its best in turn fights when you manage to keep speed between 400 and 300 knots (best turn radius can be get at 360 knots circa): the fact that you bleed too much energy when turning probably means that you are pushing back the stick too much. Try to be more gentle, keep an eye on the air speed indicator and add some throttle power to compensate.

 

 

Also, take a look at this:

 

 

The Su-27 is not supermaneuverable, the term has been corrupted from a concept to a marketing term. To be supermaneuverable, it needs to actually have control post stall. Once the Su-27 is in the Cobra, it has no control, it simply recovers in a predictable fashion. Same like a tail slide, which an F-15 can also do.

[Aluminum Donkey]

I just bought this module as it looked like a fun light small plane that should be a good dogfighter yeah? Well, so far every 1v1 fight I have had this plane just bleeds off speed once you get into a turning fight and it's all over. It feels like I'd be better off in an SU-25. Is this a bug? Are the FC3 aircraft just way unrealistically good? I have flown pretty much every aircraft DCS has to offer now that they are free to try, and I already owned F-18, F-16, M2000, AV8, FC3. This airplane seems worse than anything else I have flown. Am I missing something?

 

It isn't really a dog, it certainly has great handling, but if you're used to powerhouse planes like the F-15, MiG-29 and Su-27 it's not going to have anywhere near as much thrust. That means you get to bank-'n'-yank for much less time before it feels like you're flying a city bus with a couple of cylinders out.

 

Since the cannons are your main weapon instead of lugging a dozen missiles around and a long-range radar, you have to know how to fly it well. I'll be the first to admit I usually fall short in that last regard myself :)

 

Remember: DCS AI is superhuman, and the AI flight models are based off of UFOs, so don't get discouraged too much flying against the AI, especially if you set it on the highest skill setting. You actually suck somewhat less at this than you think you do :thumbup:

 

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[Aluminum Donkey]

 

 

...and add some throttle power to compensate.

 

 

 

That's funny, since dogfights (WVR) are generally done at full thrust, especially when the other guy's plane has more of it :D

 

 

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[Svend_Dellepude]

You need to be gentle on the stick in this plane. The slats are not very fast so they need time to extend to create extra lift. If you pull the stick hard and fast, you will bleed a little speed before they have time to extend.

[MAXsenna]

You need to be gentle on the stick in this plane. The slats are not very fast so they need time to extend to create extra lift. If you pull the stick hard and fast, you will bleed a little speed before they have time to extend.

Our just do it manually, right?

 

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[Svend_Dellepude]

I did experiment with this some time ago, but gave it up because it was a hassle, took too much focus and didn't give me better results than flying the bird the way it wanted. Maybe you can do it better though. :)

[MAXsenna]

I did experiment with this some time ago, but gave it up because it was a hassle, took too much focus and didn't give me better results than flying the bird the way it wanted. Maybe you can do it better though. :)

Hehe Actually, it was a sincere question as I've seen it recommended somewhere.

No, I seriously suck in dogfights in any game, loose my SA very fast, always.

 

 

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