So still no news about AG radar,SLAM,and new FLIR function?

[Airhunter]

I just can't wait for the AG Radar so that I can turn it on once, determine it sucks compared to the targeting pod, and then immediately start pining for the next unimplemented feature that prevents me from enjoying the Hornet. What'll it be? I was thinking the training bombs on that list is a good candidate...

 

HAH! This guy gets it. :thumbup:

[VirusAM]

I just can't wait for the AG Radar so that I can turn it on once, determine it sucks compared to the targeting pod, and then immediately start pining for the next unimplemented feature that prevents me from enjoying the Hornet. What'll it be? I was thinking the training bombs on that list is a good candidate...

 

ahahaha lol...this is a good one :)

[ebabil]

I just can't wait for the AG Radar so that I can turn it on once, determine it sucks compared to the targeting pod, and then immediately start pining for the next unimplemented feature that prevents me from enjoying the Hornet. What'll it be? I was thinking the training bombs on that list is a good candidate...

 

yeah it sucks, that's because air forces spend countless amount of money for it.

[Topper81]

Dear All,

 

We are planning to deliver the Open Beta update tomorrow, May 20.

According to the previous post we planned to have:

 

1. Completion of the Litening Targeting Pod

2. Dynamic launch zone, AUTO mode for JDAM

3. AG radar. MAP + Fixed Target Track (FTT)

4. SLAM air-to-surface missile

 

All the features are done but we can't technically include AG radar due to terrain enhancements we made for better radar realism that currently break our third party radars and we cannot include SLAM missile due to intercommunication of weapon systems of third parties. This work is underway and will be fixed for June 3rd release.

 

In addition, we changed Fixed Target Track (FTT) to Navigation Stabilized Cursor Designation because FTT requires additional enhancement for all terrains that will be developed later on.

 

Update for Litening Targeting Pod and Dynamic launch zone and AUTO mode for JDAM will be delivered as expected.

 

Litening Targeting Pod will not include updates for LTD/R and LST (laser), automatic laser illumination, OFFSET cursor and AA mods. The features will be delivered with update for June 3rd.

 

Sincerely,

The Eagle Dynamics Team

 

I hope ED will survive this *management because I've spend a lot of money on their unfinished modules and I'll hope they are willing and are able to complete them one day... Sorry I'm just frustrated but that might be the prise of an ED early accsess module. :-(

 

 

Sorry I've forgotten to thank you Kate for the transparency we always demand! So thank you, and I can understand the issue that you won't break the API to 3'd party products, but I still fear a bit that ED will never complete the module I have paid for, [or they "complete" it but it's still full of bugs and missing features] if ED continues with this speed of developement for the Hornet.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Topper81

[Swift.]

yeah it sucks, that's because air forces spend countless amount of money for it.

 

I guess you know best do you? Are you not aware of the several hornet pilots around who laugh at the thought of people being excited for AG radar?

[fmedges]

I guess you know best do you? Are you not aware of the several hornet pilots around who laugh at the thought of people being excited for AG radar?

 

I don’t like it so you can’t have it, thanks Karen.

Edited May 19, 2020 by fmedges

[ebabil]

I guess you know best do you? Are you not aware of the several hornet pilots around who laugh at the thought of people being excited for AG radar?

 

No I don't, but apparently you don't know the best either. You can use your fellow TGP at 20k feet during bad weather or searching for enemy ships from tens of miles away. If you feel you don't need it, just don't turn it on. But for those who need, they can not do anything atm

[Thump]

Yeah who gives a shit, it's better then 27 broken features that have to be re-done.

 

@Derka @Razbam @magnitude

 

1) If Deka (et al to an extent) waited for ED, their module(s) would never get released. Heaven forbid they try to do the best they can with what ED has given them and actually release as close to a full product as possible.

2) What would change from what we have now exactly?

3) ED threw a third party dev under the bus (again)

4) I'm interested in why you don't hold ED to the same level as a third party dev.

 

P.S. No opinion on magnitude, and I'm not a fan of Raz. I do not own the Jeff, but I can respect a company that did their best to release as close to a full product as possible at launch.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Thump

[Thump]

 

 

 

Even though it's painful to wait for all the features I'll accept a much thorough, quality module in the end.

 

Agreed, I would far rather they take the next 3 years getting it done right (we're on our way). My point was that he was saying that if it's not done right it's not done. Ed is effectively calling the Hornet "complete" by removing it from EA with 27 things missing/broken/inop. The rest of 2021 is "sustainment"...whatever that happens to mean to them at the time as meanings of words are relative to their current goalpost placement. It's the blatant double standard that is in question and lambasting of a third part dev for doing what they can with what they have.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Thump

[Wizard_03]

Agreed, I would far rather they take the next 3 years getting it done right (we're on our way). My point was that he was saying that if it's not done right it's not done. Ed is effectively calling the Hornet "complete" by removing it from EA with 27 things missing/broken/inop. The rest of 2021 is "sustainment"...whatever that happens to mean to them at the time as meanings of words are relative to their current goalpost placement. It's the blatant double standard that is in question and lambasting of a third part dev for doing what they can with what they have.

 

In this case doing: "what they can with what they have" has directly impacted hornet progress and development for both A2G radar and SLAM according to the horses mouth. Imagine how people who own the hornet and don't own JF-17 feel now they have to wait because Derka decided to rush ahead on their completely separate project. IMO ED should implement their radar right now and let Derka deal with the consequences of jumping ahead. Instead of punishing hornet owners. But I guess we can wait some more. Right? It's only been two years.

 

If you can't do something right it's not worth doing at all. The real double standard is how everyone can jump down EDs throat and let Derka, and half the other third parties who practice that, slide .

Edited May 19, 2020 by Wizard_03

[Northstar98]

I guess you know best do you? Are you not aware of the several hornet pilots around who laugh at the thought of people being excited for AG radar?

 

Completely irrelevant.

 

Seriously, why is this pissing contest still going? It was bad enough in that other thread.

 

Here's some cold hard reality - the real aircraft has it, it's a feature of the real RADAR, in the real aircraft - I suggest we get over that.

 

How useful it is compared to other stuff means jack, it's completely irrelevant. The AMRAAM is more useful than the Sparrow, the JSOW is more useful than the Walleye etc. Should they have never been developed? I mean what's the point of having the F-5E-3? When the F-16 and F/A-18 can do everything it can do, with way more utility and effectiveness?

 

And the opinion of pilots on people excited for xxxx means the square-root of zilch. It's subjective, what some people think about features people are excited for means nothing, it doesn't change the fact that the real aircraft has it. You can laugh at anyone for wanting a feature you don't think is that good - it's totally meaningless.

 

Guess what, the Hornet we have has access to Mk82s, but if GBUs and JDAMs do the job better we shouldn't have them, right?

 

I could not care less about it being less useful, because generally the stuff that is more limited is far more rewarding to me when I get results.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Northstar98

[Thump]

In this case doing: "what they can with what they have" has directly impacted hornet progress and development for both A2G radar and SLAM according to the horses mouth. Imagine how people who own the hornet and don't own JF-17 feel now they have to wait because Derka decided to rush ahead on their completely separate project. IMO ED should implement their radar right now and let Derka deal with the consequences of jumping ahead. Instead of punishing hornet owners. But I guess we can wait some more. Right? It's only been two years.

 

If you can't do something right it's not worth doing at all. The real double standard is how everyone can jump down EDs throat and let Derka, and half the other third parties who practice that, slide .

 

You do realize ED gave them the API and relevant code? It was also ED that changed the terrain most likely knowing what it would mean for third party devs without giving them time to adjust. The "nearly assured projection" (avoiding the word promise) of the radar/SLAM shouldn't have been made until it could be implemented without breaking the game (i.e. June 3rd apparently).

 

Also by your logic, the Hornet should have never been release. Most of its systems have not been done right and therefor should not have been done at all.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Thump

[Harker]

Let's not jump ahead and blame Deka here. They don't operate in a vacuum. They developed with the tools they were given. It's likely that the Hornet's AG radar was delayed for more than just messing the Jeff's up. If it was only that, it'd be released and Deka would have to adapt their implementation around the new code. They're a third party dev, that's how it works. ED makes changes, the third party devs adapt to them. The API has clearly undergone changes in the meantime and the delay was likely a joint decision.

[Wizard_03]

You do realize ED gave them the API and relevant code? It was also ED that changed the terrain most likely knowing what it would mean for third party devs without giving them time to adjust. The "nearly assured projection" (avoiding the word promise) of the radar/SLAM shouldn't have been made until it could be implemented without breaking the game (i.e. June 3rd apparently).

 

Also by your logic, the Hornet should have never been release. Most of its systems have not been done right and therefor should not have been done at all.

 

Your making a lot of assumptions, all I have to go of is what they said: Hornet Development is now delayed because third party aircraft would be adversely affected period

 

If you cannot see the inherent problem with that policy then I cant reason with you.

 

Listen I'm mad about their definitions of EA and Release status too and I share your concern that development will slow down once that status gets changed, but that is a 2021 problem and has not in fact happened yet. These issues are happening RIGHT now and are not assumptions. Hornet progress took a hit because of the F-16 last year and now it's apparently happening again.

[104th_Cobra]

I don't want to ruin the party which is claiming that ground radar capabilities are pointless, but it's ridiculous seeing the use of IR TPODs on adverse weather, when the sensor is an optical passive one. Fog, clouds and mostly rain will degrade or prevent the use of guided weapons wich depend on previous optical passive acquisition.

Until the 90s, before GNSS (GPS), the pratical option you had for a capable and accurate weapons delivery on adverse weather was to use one IP for INS update, using ground mapping radar, before the ingress on target.

[Thump]

Your making a lot of assumptions, all I have to go of is what they said: Hornet Development is now delayed because third party aircraft would be adversely affected period

 

If you cannot see the inherent problem with that policy then I cant reason with you.

 

Listen I'm mad about their definitions of EA and Release status too and I share your concern that development will slow down once that status gets changed, but that is a 2021 problem and has not in fact happened yet. These issues are happening RIGHT now and are not assumptions. Hornet progress took a hit because of the F-16 last year and now it's apparently happening again.

 

Unless you're saying Deka stole their code and used it, I would call the first statement a fair assumption. If ED really didn't see a major change to the terrain/radar relationship not effecting third part dev's work, that makes them incompetent. You are also making a large assumption that they are shooting straight with you (which they proved to not be the case in the Hornet devs for Viper revs). I can see the problem you are talking about with that "policy" but it was also something ED brought upon themselves.

 

If we do not address issues as see them, then you're 2021 problem will become a 2023 problem very quickly. Forest through the trees.

[Wizard_03]

Unless you're saying Deka stole their code and used it, I would call the first statement a fair assumption. If ED really didn't see a major change to the terrain/radar relationship not effecting third part dev's work, that makes them incompetent. You are also making a large assumption that they are shooting straight with you (which they proved to not be the case in the Hornet devs for Viper revs). I can see the problem you are talking about with that "policy" but it was also something ED brought upon themselves.

 

If we do not address issues as see them, then you're 2021 problem will become a 2023 problem very quickly. Forest through the trees.

 

 

I'm not mad that Derka used the APIs I'm mad that it is now a hornet problem that they did. And your right that one is on ED. They did not have to provide the APIs and they didn't have to hold off on hornet updates for the sake of Jeff but they did and they did.

 

 

 

Now we're into June, whats the next excuse gonna be??

 

 

 

Sorry we couldn't release the New Amraam updates because it would break SD-10...Sorry we couldn't release FLIR because it would break TCS on the Tomcat. This is not a sustainable way of doing things. Third parties need to follow EDs lead not the other way around. Jeff updates and maintenance should take a back seat to hornet development, or that very least not hamper it in any way. It's great that Derka has the Jeff in the state that its in, I'm happy for them. But it definitely shouldn't be at the hornet's or any other older modules expense.

[Eldur]

Yay. With the goalposts on the Hornet moved, the Viper on the backburner and even features of the supercarrier cut (crew on recovery etc) while promised featured get delayed again another EA is what we need. Can't wait to buy into that one.

 

Well, I kinda paid for it over half a decade ago and I'm just patiently waiting for it

 

I just can't wait for the AG Radar so that I can turn it on once, determine it sucks compared to the targeting pod, and then immediately start pining for the next unimplemented feature that prevents me from enjoying the Hornet. What'll it be? I was thinking the training bombs on that list is a good candidate...

 

This posts reminds me of the still mostly useless Mk.20s and their literal duplicates with just another name since we still can't set their HOB before taking off via the kneeboard (or at all) after two years, but having tons of incomplete features added that kinda worked for 6-8 weeks each after introduction and then got broken by another update... but yeah... new toys for the boys

 

Who else is looking forward to the massive fps drop with that radar switched on? The Jeff's hasn't been usable since day one because of this and even the Viggen's ist totally useless for the same reason since we're at 2.x even though that one doesn't use ED APIs at all

 

I'm not mad that Derka used the APIs I'm mad that it is now a hornet problem that they did.

 

I considerably fail at getting what the issue is there... did I miss some comms?

[Harker]

Who else is looking forward to the massive fps drop with that radar switched on? The Jeff's hasn't been usable since day one because of this and even the Viggen's ist totally useless for the same reason since we're at 2.x even though that one doesn't use ED APIs at all

The AG radar on the Jeff indeed caused massive FPS drops in the beginning, but not anymore, at least for me. That issue got fixed soon after release, AFAIK. It might still reduce FPS, but I don't notice it most of the time (I play capped at 60 FPS). Maybe the issue is more prominent above complicated terrain.

[Wizard_03]

 

I considerably fail at getting what the issue is there... did I miss some comms?

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4337181&postcount=186

 

 

Mini update, According to Kate the A2G radar modes and SLAM were ready for tomorrow but they decided to hold off as some of the improvements break third party Implementations. (we're guessing Derka, she doesn't specify but It's pretty obvious since they are the only ones with a Man in the loop weapon and A2G Radar which according to them uses official DCSW API for surface radar)

[Thump]

 

Who else is looking forward to the massive fps drop with that radar switched on?

 

 

Between the radar and the SA page, it'll be interesting to say the least.

[Harker]

Between the radar and the SA page, it'll be interesting to say the least.

For the SA page, switch to the NVIDIA 442 driver version. Not an ideal solution, but at least you won't have the FPS drop until the devs figure out what's wrong and fix it.

[raelias]

I'm not mad that Derka used the APIs I'm mad that it is now a hornet problem that they did. And your right that one is on ED. They did not have to provide the APIs and they didn't have to hold off on hornet updates for the sake of Jeff but they did and they did.

 

 

You honestly belive, at this point in time, after all the stuff over the last months/years, that ED held up a very antecipated update with a core system and a new weapon to their flagship module after all of the latest PR disaster and delays to no mess with some 3rd party aircraft?

 

That's laughable.

[Harlikwin]

So it's not just me that wondered if the phoenix was a bit off from reality. :)

 

I mean within the limitations of the old API... From what I see, my main gripe is that the phoenix tracks off the rail regardless of what the F14 is doing... Hopefully this can be fixed with the new API.

 

Basically how it should work at a very basic level:

 

Lock up target in TWS, STT whatever. <Fire>

 

1. Missile now has INS fix of when to go hot...

2. This is updated from the F14 if it still has a lock (this is critical)

3. Missile goes hot at whatever range ~10nm, based on its latest INS information

4. If you are where in the INS thinks you are, you will have a bad day

5. If say you turn 30 degrees right when he launches and he goes cold the phoenix will miss by 10's of miles.

 

Currently

1. Missile tracks you right off the rail

2. Missile is more or less pitbull at 54nm or whatever

3. You die cuz the phoenix is unrealistic

 

Real life:

The F14 needs to fly and update the phoenix with the data link till it goes hot to get a decent kill like everything else...

DCS. The F14 can literally pull a 180 cuz it doesn't matter since its more or less hot off the rail.

 

More real Life...

That magic datalink, jammable...

Depending on which version of the phoenix, succesitible to ECM, depending on the type. And don't give some weaksauce HOJ BS... Deception jamming works fine against the A model, which is why it was upgraded throughout its life. And cross polarization jamming likely work decently against the 54c (you know, those funny "pods" the Su-27 carries...

[Harlikwin]

Well what do you know! Third parties that implemented systems ahead of EDs official APIs are now holding up Development..I don't wanna hear anymore about how Derka had A2G radar on their product first..

 

if it's not done right it's not done.

 

LOFL <eyeroll gif>

 

So, 3rd party is used as by ED as a "test platform" for said API. Now Wizzzrurd is madz because ED revised the API based on initial test data provided by having that radar in the Jeff first.

 

ED winz! They can test their marginal AG radar API, and "saavy" players like Wizzurd can now blame some 3rd part that they hold a negative pre-concieved notion against.

 

Then once the beta test data is back from the Jeff, ED can "fix" it for the F18 so it will be better. Everyone wins aside from ol Wihizzzurd…

Edited May 20, 2020 by Harlikwin