Please, remove unnecessary liveries from DCS builds. Put them in separate packs

[upyr1]

I would be fine with removing extra liveries as long as a decent generic skin takes the place of a missing livery 

[SharpeXB]

1 minute ago, upyr1 said:

I would be fine with removing extra liveries as long as a decent generic skin takes the place of a missing livery 

I think that’s what happens now. You see the default livery. Trouble is (in multiplayer) for many aircraft that default is bright aluminum. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by SharpeXB

[SkateZilla]

There's a few problems with this:

A. Removing all and giving a player a generic skin, when online, if a player chooses a dark camo, and you don't have it, it will represent the player in a generic grey livery, or something that stands out more, causing desync in player visuals and essentially cheating by making players non-camouflaged.

B. When I polled server admins of the popular servers, they choose to have them installed, so Even if ED says "Make AI Skin Packs optional downloads", as soon as you try to play MP, most if not all server admins will have the packs installed, thus creating more MP Environment separation. 

Object textures and liveries are part of the core.
If it's total DCS Install Size that's bothering you, then there are other aspects that take of space that have more of a reason to clean/fix than current CoreMods Liveries.

This entire thread exists because SSD Prices 4 Years ago were insane.

now you can get 4TB for $200 Easily 2TB for $100 etc.

Market Storage Medium Prices (and their inflation) should not dictate how DCS is developed.
 

Edited September 15, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Rudel_chw]

7 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

There's a few problems with this:

Seems like a lot of trouble just to save a few GB (not 60 GB, as I doubt any one would select absolutely no liveries).

[Schmidtfire]

I have to say that many 3rd parties are killing it in terms of bringing a variety of liveries. There is nothing more boring than a module with only 4-5 liveries that are specific to a nation and a specific block. Very hard to build interesting missions around that. A good mix of fictional (can be real, but not for specific model) and non-fictional liveries are essential.

However 40 modules having 6GB worth of textures each is not really ideal, so there maybe has to be some form of balance...    

Edited September 15, 2023 by Schmidtfire

[Doughguy]

Suggestion: Low res texture variations for the core modules, that get replaced with the high res, once you purchase a module.

Same method as with normandy 2

Edited September 15, 2023 by Doughguy

[SharpeXB]

20 minutes ago, Doughguy said:

Suggestion: Low res texture variations for the core modules, that get replaced with the high res, once you purchase a module.

Same method as with normandy 2

The problem here is you’re using liveries so other players can see them, not just you. Plus you still see other AI aircraft which you don’t own. 

[Doughguy]

again, if all core models including the ones you do not own are by default low res everyone will have low res unless you replace these with your downloaded module

[SharpeXB]

30 minutes ago, Doughguy said:

again, if all core models including the ones you do not own are by default low res everyone will have low res unless you replace these with your downloaded module

But players won’t like seeing low res skins despite not owning that aircraft. 

[IanC58]

20 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

But players won’t like seeing low res skins despite not owning that aircraft. 

How would you know what others think, in another forum post you say you only fly multiplayer with one other person?

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, IanC58 said:

How would you know what others think, in another forum post you say you only fly multiplayer with one other person?

It’s a safe guess that most people don’t like ugly graphics. And again, we’re talking about jumping through hoops over $1 of hard drive space…

Edited September 15, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Northstar98]

On 9/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, SkateZilla said:

A. Removing all and giving a player a generic skin, when online, if a player chooses a dark camo, and you don't have it, it will represent the player in a generic grey livery, or something that stands out more, causing desync in player visuals and essentially cheating by making players non-camouflaged.

1. Then make it something under the purview of the integrity checker.
2. This is something that is already possible under the current system - exactly nothing is stopping me from deleting liveries left and right as it is, they'll just get redownloaded if I update or run a repair.

On 9/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, SkateZilla said:

B. When I polled server admins of the popular servers, they choose to have them installed, so Even if ED says "Make AI Skin Packs optional downloads", as soon as you try to play MP, most if not all server admins will have the packs installed, thus creating more MP Environment separation. 

Surely, that also applies to the modules?

And if this point is supposed to address the IC (the only thing suggested so far that would actually prevent players from joining), then server admins should be able to enforce it at their discretion - meaning it's entirely up to them whether the MP environment separation exists.

Not only that but this is already something that already exists with the current system, especially when user liveries are involved.

On 9/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, SkateZilla said:

Object textures and liveries are part of the core.

And they can be deleted largely without consequence and totally without consequence to SP players.

On 9/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, SkateZilla said:

If it's total DCS Install Size that's bothering you, then there are other aspects that take of space that have more of a reason to clean/fix than current CoreMods Liveries.

Or I could choose delete stuff I don't want, don't need, don't use and will experience little to no consequences (definite no for single player) if I do so.

And seriously, this exact system, the exact system is already present for modules, terrains and campaigns (campaigns which are even smaller than some liveries), so why on Earth is it so controversial to do the exact same thing with the liveries? I don't get it one bit.

Heck, have it so its default behaviour is to install every official livery, like it does now - so that only players who want to delete them need to touch anything.

On 9/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, SkateZilla said:

This entire thread exists because SSD Prices 4 Years ago were insane.

No - this is entire thread exists because paying money to store files you don't need, want or use, that can be deleted with little to no consequence, is a fundamentally ridiculous premise - you're putting the cart before the horse.

Even if I have plenty of storage (I do) why should I store files I don't want, use or need, that can be deleted without consequence (especially as a predominatly SP player)?

I don't clutter where I live with stuff I don't want, need or use; I don't clutter my car up with things I don't want, need or use; why should I clutter my SSD with stuff I don't want, need or use?

On 9/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, SkateZilla said:

now you can get 4TB for $200 Easily 2TB for $100 etc.

Yes, people should fork out $100 so they can store data they don't need, want or use. As opposed to spending $0 deleting unnecessary files.

On 9/15/2023 at 6:22 PM, SkateZilla said:

Market Storage Medium Prices (and their inflation) should not dictate how DCS is developed.

Nobody is trying to stop liveries being developed.

And again, this exact system already exists for modules, terrains and campaigns - why is it so disagreeable to do the exact same thing with the liveries?

Edited November 13, 2023 by Northstar98

[The Oligopolist]

I posted a solution and everyone has just ignored me!

Do you know how upsetting that is? To be ignored on the internet? I'm pretty upset.

[SkateZilla]

17 minutes ago, The Oligopolist said:

I posted a solution and everyone has just ignored me!

Do you know how upsetting that is? To be ignored on the internet? I'm pretty upset.

Compressing Folders makes load times extreme, plus hits on ram and disk during games as new assets need to be de-compressed.

Honestly, if you dont want them, simply delete them.

But 60 GB in 2023 is nothing, there's 12/18/22/44 TB Drives.

I have Literally EVERY Module on my External M.2 and it's no where near taking up 2TB,

It sits somewhere around 650 GB Total Folder Size, 
133 GB is the \CoreMods\ and the \Bazar\ Folder for all the AI Aircraft, Weapons, Objects Shapes and Textures
  53 GB is the \Mods\aircraft\ Folder for all Player Aircraft Modules Cockpit Shapes Textures and Systems Coding
365 GB is the \Mods\terrain\ Folder for all Terrains, Textures, Terrain Shapes etc.
     8 GB is the \Mods\tech\ for Asset Packs Shapes and Textures, as well as GPS Systems, Shapes and Textures
   60 GB is the \Mods\campaigns\.

So Removing the Liveries Honestly in the grand scheme of things doesn't do anything ~ 5-10% of the total install size.

There are more concerning things in the core files that need attention and cleansed.

 

[The Oligopolist]

10 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Compressing Folders makes load times extreme, plus hits on ram and disk during games as new assets need to be de-compressed.

I have noticed no negative impact on load times and I have a pretty old machine.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, The Oligopolist said:

I posted a solution and everyone has just ignored me!

Do you know how upsetting that is? To be ignored on the internet? I'm pretty upset.

 

I don't like hard drive compression, aside from performance issues, it makes almost impossible to recover any data if the disk crashes ... with the current drive prices it is simply not worth it.

[MAXsenna]

I posted a solution and everyone has just ignored me!
Do you know how upsetting that is? To be ignored on the internet? I'm pretty upset.

I thought you were joking. Sorry. It's not really a solution.

Cheers!

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[Schmidtfire]

14 hours ago, Doughguy said:

Suggestion: Low res texture variations for the core modules, that get replaced with the high res, once you purchase a module.

Same method as with normandy 2

 

In theory it sounds like a good idea. From a marketing standpoint this sounds like a no-go. How bad would it look if there are myriads of gameplay videos on youtube or twitch with low res textures? Ever wondered why there is not a single old AI unit in the trailers?

If ED want DCS to look like a modern game and attract a "broader" audience, they cannot sanction low quality graphics. That's why they review and approve all 3rd party products not only by FM, systems etc. but also modeling and texturing. Certain standard must be upheld.  

Edited September 16, 2023 by Schmidtfire

[RazerVon]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:46 PM, SharpeXB said:

Not a great idea because there are hundreds of them. It’s too time consuming to sort through. Like the User Files Skin section, just too much extra work. 
 

You can also get a 2TB SSD these days for $65 so this whole topic isn’t worth worrying about. 

 

Dude, my suggestion is a standard feature of many modern games.
"Just use up data you'll never use." is an anti-consumer take.

Why should DCS be less consumer friendly than the competition?

[Rudel_chw]

23 minutes ago, RazerVon said:

"Just use up data you'll never use."

 

Sure, I don't use every livery that I have all the time ... but I do enjoy my freedom to choose a given livery from within a wide choice ... and I don't appreciate the users that want to reduce my freedom of choice just so they can save a few dollars of disk capacity.

Do you really want to restrict the standard liveries even further from what they are now? ... I'm all the time adding more liveries to my DCS thanks to those users that share them at User Files, and enjoy the choice that they afford me when I edit a mission.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Rudel_chw

[Exorcet]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:56 PM, Doughguy said:

Suggestion: Low res texture variations for the core modules, that get replaced with the high res, once you purchase a module.

Same method as with normandy 2

 

Don't link them to purchase. Just give them to everyone. With a livery manager we could then simply choose to use the low or high res skins. This removes the problem of "cheating" as low res skins would work fine at a distance and keep the colors/visibility of a certain scheme.

Cheating in quotes because it's possible with the current system anyway, so it's not really an issue with livery select options.

[DAZnBLAST]

I think MP environment should be locked down to ED/3rd party dev skins only. User created skins are only available for the SP environment. If a skin is popular enough with the community, submit to ED as a change control.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, RazerVon said:

Dude, my suggestion is a standard feature of many modern games.
"Just use up data you'll never use." is an anti-consumer take.

Why should DCS be less consumer friendly than the competition?

You’re just making this too complicated over $1 of hard drive space. It’s 2023 today not 2012

[Guest]

On 5/28/2020 at 3:51 AM, SkateZilla said:

 

They are part of the core, so if a user flies those aircraft on a MP Server you see the livery instead of "Missing Textures".

Hi SkateZilla,

is there a way that the server can check to see what everyone in the mission/server is running/has selected.  This can be liveries, but could be extended to other files as well- reducing the storage required?  On another note, surely the server should be able to check what textures etc. each players PC has, and only send then the ones they need for the mission/server?  Many files that are stored locally already, surely don't need to be resent by the server?

Everyone likes reduced load-times  

'52

[MAXsenna]

Hi SkateZilla,
is there a way that the server can check to see what everyone in the mission/server is running/has selected.  This can be liveries, but could be extended to other files as well- reducing the storage required?  On another note, surely the server should be able to check what textures etc. each players PC has, and only send then the ones they need for the mission/server?  Many files that are stored locally already, surely don't need to be resent by the server?
Everyone likes reduced load-times  
'52

Are you sure you'd want the server to send you files you don't have?


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