Micro-stuttering / hitch & Frametime spikes issue

[Hiob]

That‘s your CPU loaded to 100% Your system is doing some heavy load (dcs related or not). The cpu can‘t feed the gpu anymore.

If that was my system, the first thing I would get rid off, would be the geforce experience. 

What tasks are running beside dcs?

Edit: from my pov, those are not micro stutters, but full fledged halts.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Hiob

[captain_dalan]

5 hours ago, Hiob said:

That‘s your CPU loaded to 100% Your system is doing some heavy load (dcs related or not). The cpu can‘t feed the gpu anymore.

If that was my system, the first thing I would get rid off, would be the geforce experience. 

What tasks are running beside dcs?

Edit: from my pov, those are not micro stutters, but full fledged halts.

 

They are more of hiccups then stutters. I call them micro cause they usually last less then a second, and this video is them at their absolute worst. As for what's running beside DCS, this is the average list of processes on an average day (DCS excluded) 


That is, not much. And most of the time i don' get them. But when i do, sometimes (though i haven't always checked) the System goes up. 

[Flappie]

A user once said Razer Synapse was inducing stutters in DCS. Can you try killing this task before playing?

Oh, and have you added DCS main folder as an exception in your ESET antivirus?

[captain_dalan]

10 hours ago, Flappie said:

A user once said Razer Synapse was inducing stutters in DCS. Can you try killing this task before playing?

 

That's only been around since april i think, when i got the new mouse, but the stutters were here since ever. Never the less, i will kill the task next time the stutter reappears and report the effects! 

 

10 hours ago, Flappie said:

 

Oh, and have you added DCS main folder as an exception in your ESET antivirus?

Oh yeah, both the main folder and the saved games folder, just to be on the safe side. 

[Flappie]

Ok. Have you disabled Windows Hardware Acceleration GPU Scheduler already?

[AstonMartinDBS]

Did you already try this @captain_dalan?

[captain_dalan]

13 hours ago, Flappie said:

Ok. Have you disabled Windows Hardware Acceleration GPU Scheduler already?

Aye. Can't remember when exactly, so it must have been off for a long time now:

4 hours ago, AstonMartinDBS said:

Did you already try this @captain_dalan?

You mean disabling the VSync? Yeah, i think i've never had it enabled at all. 

[Flappie]

Check if you have bad drive access times.

1. Run Resource monitor (resmon command in Windows).
2. Click the Disk tab.
3. Run DCS, wait for dcs.exe to show up on the top part of resmon. Tick it.
4. Now play DCS. As soon as you get stutters, Alt+Tab back to resmon, see which DCS files are being read and watch the access times. They should not be over ~200ms.

[AstonMartinDBS]

3 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

You mean disabling the VSync?

1. Disable VSync within DCS options and
2. Set VSync in the nVidia Control Panel for DCS.exe to "Fast"

 

...and here is another possible solution:

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by AstonMartinDBS

[captain_dalan]

3 hours ago, Flappie said:

Check if you have bad drive access times.

1. Run Resource monitor (resmon command in Windows).
2. Click the Disk tab.
3. Run DCS, wait for dcs.exe to show up on the top part of resmon. Tick it.
4. Now play DCS. As soon as you get stutters, Alt+Tab back to resmon, see which DCS files are being read and watch the access times. They should not be over ~200ms.

Something interesting happened while i was trying to record a longer video with the stutters today. As usual i recorded with the NVIDEA experience. After about 10 -12 seconds of recording, the stutters disappear. So it seems disk activity definitely plays a part here. But it doesn't seem to be a memory, GPU or CPU issue, as those don't change at all, neither do they peak out. 



My first suspect would be defragment tools, but i have those suspended. Whatever it is, it stops as soon as NVE starts writing the recording. Weird. 

I marked the point when the recording starts, there is clearly a small spike in CPU usage, and the GPU plateaus, but unexpectedly stutters are gone. The only thing the corelates is the disk activity going to minimal. And that's C drive, my system and virtual memory file drive. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by captain_dalan

[captain_dalan]

3 hours ago, AstonMartinDBS said:

1. Disable VSync within DCS options and
2. Set VSync in the nVidia Control Panel for DCS.exe to "Fast"

 

...and here is another possible solution:

 

 

Yeah, but i never used nor use v-sync. It's always been disabled on my installation. Did give the disable hot plug a go. Will see how it reacts the next time i test. Thanks for the inputs! 

[Flappie]

It reminds me of something: try disabling NVIDIA ShadowPlay.

[Hiob]

Do you have stutters if you suspend any recording? Geforce experience (or similar) does not really help to get smooth gameplay. 

[captain_dalan]

4 hours ago, Hiob said:

Do you have stutters if you suspend any recording? Geforce experience (or similar) does not really help to get smooth gameplay. 

I actually get stutters when i don't record. Which is what baffles me. 

4 hours ago, Flappie said:

It reminds me of something: try disabling NVIDIA ShadowPlay.

Just tried that an hour ago. Seemed to have worked for a while (could be me restarting the PC and DCS) and then the stutters came back

I tried to correlate what tasks spike in disk usage when the stutters appear, and i get this:


Not much use, i know  

8 hours ago, AstonMartinDBS said:

1. Disable VSync within DCS options and
2. Set VSync in the nVidia Control Panel for DCS.exe to "Fast"

 

 

Tried this as well, just to be sure. Didn't have any effect, for better or for worse

Edited August 14, 2022 by captain_dalan

[Hiob]

I would recommend to differentiate between real "micro stutters", which I would define as staccato-like but otherwise "fluid" motion. Likely happening when looking around or other fast camera movements. Those kinds of stutters are most likely caused by some kind of asynchronism (v-sync, trackIR) or polling rate issue.

The other ones - big stutters or hickups, little freezes, like shown in your video are more likely to be caused by some kind of bottleneck. Some resource of your system (cpu, ssd, ram, gpu) is momentarily maxed out and can't keep up.

In your case, I would concentrate on the latter. I would try to disable (or uninstall) everything that is not fundamentally needed, do a clean driver reinstall (without geforce-experience), get rid of any "RGB"- or input device related software (mouse, keyboard, headphones really shouldn't need a third party software running), and the AV.

If that solves the problem. You can reintroduce one by another and see, which one is the culprit.

(Make sure, you ruled out the basic "easier" stuff like a full SSD and such)

[captain_dalan]

17 hours ago, Hiob said:

I would recommend to differentiate between real "micro stutters", which I would define as staccato-like but otherwise "fluid" motion. Likely happening when looking around or other fast camera movements. Those kinds of stutters are most likely caused by some kind of asynchronism (v-sync, trackIR) or polling rate issue.

The other ones - big stutters or hickups, little freezes, like shown in your video are more likely to be caused by some kind of bottleneck. Some resource of your system (cpu, ssd, ram, gpu) is momentarily maxed out and can't keep up.

In your case, I would concentrate on the latter.

I think i definitely fall under the latter, especially as they are persistent and don't respond to changes in settings. They don't even appear after the same elapsed period. 

17 hours ago, Hiob said:

I would try to disable (or uninstall) everything that is not fundamentally needed, do a clean driver reinstall (without geforce-experience), get rid of any "RGB"- or input device related software (mouse, keyboard, headphones really shouldn't need a third party software running), and the AV.

If that solves the problem. You can reintroduce one by another and see, which one is the culprit.

(Make sure, you ruled out the basic "easier" stuff like a full SSD and such)

Unfortunately i don't have nearly enough free time for that kind methodical purging. I hardly have time for DCS as things stand. And as it's the only game or even software that is susceptible to the phenomenon, i think i will just have to live with it. After all, i have for all these years. And then who knows, maybe some day a migration to a new engine will solve my issues. Meanwhile i'll keep scanning the forums for potential solutions. Thanks for all the help guys! 

[MAXsenna]

9 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

Unfortunately i don't have nearly enough free time for that kind methodical purging. I hardly have time for DCS as things stand. And as it's the only game or even software that is susceptible to the phenomenon, i think i will just have to live with it. After all, i have for all these years. And then who knows, maybe some day a migration to a new engine will solve my issues. Meanwhile i'll keep scanning the forums for potential solutions. Thanks for all the help guys! 

I get it. It's more fun to fly. But running "Windows Debloater" and DDU will take you an hour (with download) once. It might be worth your time. Getting Process Explorer from SysInternals is not a bad thing too.

Cheers! 

[Hiob]

I would at least try to disable the AV completely. Take your machine from the network if you feel better. Kill every task related to ESET.

Even if you have made DCS an exclusion from the realtime protection. ESET may choose to do a system scan unrelated but *while* DCS is running. That could totally explain the symptoms.

I have never touched ESET - I'm just guessing based on earlier experiences with various AVs.

[WelshZeCorgi]

I feel this thread. Stuttering is there, not as severe as OP, but spending $3000+ for a high end pc to support high end VR just to still have regular hiccups is maddening. Watching youtube videos claiming perfect 60 fps doesn't help. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by WelshZeCorgi

[Hiob]

Don't get fooled by youtube videos. The video-codec of youtube smoothens the videos. They seem more fluid than they are.

Some occasional hickups are inevitable - especially in "heavier" missions with a lot of AI and scripting. Flying solely around though, should be possible without. (Given the GFX settings match the hardware).

[captain_dalan]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:46 PM, MAXsenna said:

I get it. It's more fun to fly. But running "Windows Debloater" and DDU will take you an hour (with download) once. It might be worth your time. Getting Process Explorer from SysInternals is not a bad thing too.

Cheers! 

I will keep this in mind. Will explore the option when i have more free time on my hand.

Meanwhile the method of eliminating the stutters by starting an NVDEA video recording session 9and stopping it after 10 or so seconds) worked again in this Friday MP 4 hour long session. So i'll stick to it for now. I just have to remember to delete the recorded videos after each session  
@Flappie you can add this method to a potential workarounds list for people that have similar issues, but can't seem to make the other fixes work for them  

[Flappie]

That is a very odd workaround, but I'll try to remember it!

Have you tried disabling NVIDIA Shadow? It helped others in the past.

[captain_dalan]

4 minutes ago, Flappie said:

That is a very odd workaround, but I'll try to remember it!

Have you tried disabling NVIDIA Shadow? It helped others in the past.

Yeah, tried it. Unfortunately it didn't work. The stutters did reappear after a while. I am yet to establish any correlation between the mission type i'm in and the time elapsed before they come. 

[FupDuck]

On 8/21/2022 at 2:45 PM, captain_dalan said:

Yeah, tried it. Unfortunately it didn't work. The stutters did reappear after a while. I am yet to establish any correlation between the mission type i'm in and the time elapsed before they come. 

Have you tried disabling the power service as described earlier in this thread?

Also, if you haven't yet, start windows in safe mode and play DCS to see if the stutters go away. 

[TKNARMZ]

I want to add something huge I discovered while messing up my PC upgrade.  I play DSC all the time.  In fact its the only game i put time into.  Old system.  AMD 5900x : AMD 6900xt GPU : 32 GB Gskill memory.  DCS ran smooth around 40 FPS  consistently with Almost max setting at 2k in VR using Valve index.

I bought a new motherboard, Gigabyte 670x elite, Upgraded the CPU, amd 7900.  Everything still ran smooth got a couple frames better but not much.  When the 4090 came out, I got one right away cause I wanted that smoother experience.  

Slapped that in and I got stutters.  Micro stutters that bothered me and it was only when I looked left or right.  Drove me crazy and I couldnt figure it out.  I did everything.  Reset Bios, Unisntalled everything including the video drivers and game.  So I thought it was the PSU due to me having the minimum of 850w.  I bought a 1000w MSI.

The new PSU didnt help.  So I decided to do a full clean windows install and start all over.  Once windows was done I booted up DCS and it was full max setting at 2k hitting 72FPS no matter where I was and what map,  It was smooth as could be.  No Joke. never seen it run this good.

This is where it gets interesting.   I would fly maybe 3 times a day for the first day, Rebooting my PC and making sure nothing changes. 

Then gigabyte software pops up saying I need to update my chipset drivers along with a whole list of things to update.  I wish I would have taken a snapshot but I didnt.  I figured I am using gigabyte so why not.   Before I ran the update I ran 3dmark using TimeSpy i hit over 30k points.  Right after the update i was around 29940.  I thought that I better check DCS.. Sure enough, those exact stutters came back.  I am in the process of deleting all the updates and trying to pinpoint the issue.  If I cant, then I will do one more clean windows install and start all over.

Another strange thing I meant to add.  Before the updates I was able to turn on Motion Smooth  on the STEAM VR settings and it was working no problems.

After the gigabyte updates, the Motion Smooth starting its normal choppy graphic crap.

I will keep everyone posted once I delete all the updates and see if that fixes DCS.