New Tutorial:: Understanding Corner Speed

[Ironhand]

Hi Folks,

 

Just a heads up to let you know that there's a new tutorial on the A2A page of my site:: BFM 101: Understanding Corner Speed. It's 207MB and 14 minutes long.

 

This would have been released about a year ago. I was about 3 hours from having it completed when my hard drive crashed and I lost everything (I thought)--about 60 hours of work. I couldn't bear the thought of starting over from scratch and, so, had written it off. However, a few weeks ago I discovered an early rough copy backed up to DVD. So with that in hand and adding some new video and voicing, I've completed a shorter version of the original.

 

Hope you enjoy it.

 

Rich

[DancinBear]

Thank you Ironhand. I'm Dl'ing now. Always interested in your tutorials.

Regards DancinBear

[Mugatu]

cool dl too

[BBQ]

another treat from Ironhand

[tn_prvteye]

Your stuff rocks, man! Very informative and entertaining. I like the atmosphere you give your tutorials...as if we really are flying along with you. "Nice day for flying" and that sort of thing. :)

 

I do have a question, and forgive me if you'd answered it before, but are you using any cloud mods? Yours looks much better than mine...

[walternowi]

Thank you. S!

[RedTiger]

This should be an interesting one to watch...looking forward to it!

[Majesco]

thank you ironhand, downloading....

[SUBS17]

Hey Ironhand just a question regarding the specs for corner speed. I know that the F-16s corner speed is 330-440kts and the F-15 is 440-550kts what is the corner speed for the Mig29 and SU33/27?

[RedTiger]

Hey Ironhand just a question regarding the specs for corner speed. I know that the F-16s corner speed is 330-440kts and the F-15 is 440-550kts what is the corner speed for the Mig29 and SU33/27?

 

Hehehe...maybe Ironhand or someone has done some actual testing and plotting to determine this, so lets see if my observation is right. :detective: I'd say that the MiG-29S' sustained corner speed is around 880 or 890 kmph. Lets just call this "at sea level" and "clean with 50% fuel" since that will also play a part.

[GGTharos]

I think the flanker's sustained corner speed is around 630 or so ... faster if you're heavy.

[JimMack]

Rich - as usual, a brilliant tutorial, should be shown to all military pilots under training, so much more useful than the usual "chalk and talk" and powerpoint instruction that they get.

 

Now, how about a tutorial on fighting in the vertical?

[Ironhand]

First of all, thanks folks. It's always good to know that the effort is appreciated.

 

...I do have a question...are you using any cloud mods? Yours looks much better than mine...

No Cloud mods. Just the default clouds usually set to a density of "8" with General Visibility set somewhere between 35-50 km and Advanced Haze (of course). I prefer the atmospherics I get with those settings. So I use them a lot.

 

...what is the corner speed for the Mig29 and SU33/27?

I've never generated my own data for either the MiG-29 or the Su-33. The Su-33, being heavier than the Su-27 but with a similar wing configuration, should require a higher corner velocity. I'd guess it'd be about 30-40km/hr higher than for the Su-27. The MiG-29's wing configuration is different and I think it has a higher corner velocity than either of the two Sukhois. If memory serves, I've seen numbers that are around 120 km/hr(??) higher than either Sukhoi. I'm not sure about that but those numbers would fall in line with RedTiger's thinking.

 

The numbers I got from testing the Su-27 were in the range from 710 km/hr (weight 25,186 Kg--70% fuel plus missiles) to 540 km/hr (weight 19,008 Kg--32% fuel, no weapons). So aircraft weight is a critical component. At corner, instantaneous turn rate averaged around 27.6 degrees/sec (26-30).

 

Rich

[Nate--IRL--]

Excelent tutorial IronHand, Thank you

 

Nate

[Vekkinho]

Great work Rich!

[colubridae]

As always many thanks d'loading now...

 

this sim and community is the best. Such praise sounds corny, but only the cognoscenti really understand tyhe depth of praise

 

col...

[zaelu]

Nice tutorial Ironhand.

[RvEYoda]

We did this test once for sealevel clean payload horizontal sustains. Fuel locked 40% flanker, 52% eagle : and the flanker peaked at 19 degrees/second. It did 18-19 dps over a VERY large range however. The eagle was slower below 270 knots or so, but the more above 270 kts you get, the better, and at 450 knots, the eagle sustained almost 9G, almost 22-24 degrees/second. However with that g-load the eagle pilot in lo blacks out after 1 full turn, so you cannot use that advantage by just going by the numbers. Tests also show that flanker pilot can do one turn and a half at 9G sustain 450 kts(when fuel set to 20%), so the lo flanker pilot is more resistant to G. The flanker also had much higher accelleration in the low speed range(especially high alt low KCAS, high TAS), while the eagle accelleration in the 350 kts (KCAS) range is outstanding. High altitude however tests show that the flanker is superior in ALL areas except top speed. Sustain and instantaneous turns slow and fast, accelleration and minimum speeds.

[A.S]

..but dont forget though numbers :huh: do not lie.... they can not :pilotfly:fly

 

 

learnt all my "book maneuvers" :book: ...and still wondered why i die :doh:

 

asking old vets :inv: for :helpsmilie: ...and no need to :cry:

 

the way to go is loooong :sleep: but for that case you can listen yodaґs

 

Amraam Soong. :hehe:

 

http://www.reservoirs-elite.org/data/promo/yoda/amraamSongAll.avi

 

DO NOT JOIN RVE WE ARE SICK :)

[GGTharos]

This is probably because the flanker has higher TWR than it should at those altitudes (it should be significantly inferior to the F-15's above 20000', within a specific speed range).

 

The flanker also had much higher accelleration in the low speed range(especially high alt low KCAS, high TAS), while the eagle accelleration in the 350 kts (KCAS) range is outstanding. High altitude however tests show that the flanker is superior in ALL areas except top speed. Sustain and instantaneous turns slow and fast, accelleration and minimum speeds.

[RvEYoda]

This is probably because the flanker has higher TWR than it should at those altitudes (it should be significantly inferior to the F-15's above 20000', within a specific speed range).

 

i think it has to do half-way with the overall lack of thrust at low kcas for the f-15, half-way with it's lack of high alt twr. Right now if the f15 drops under 230 kcas at 30 angels it cannot acellerate back (?)

[GGTharos]

Afterburner thrust is about right for the F-15, so long as you're not hauling weapons (the on-pylon drag is wrong)

I'll point you to the flanker racking up a mach 2.6 top speed at high alt, unloaded and light ... while the F-15 maybe reaches 2.4.

 

It feels almost like you're flying a 95% trim F-15 vs. an uptrimmed, v-maxed Su-27 :P

[TheMoose]

As usual, your tutorials are awesome. Keep up the good work, looking forward for your continued support in your training sessions. You should consider starting a virtual squad.

 

Anyhow huge thanks for these videos.

 

Cheers

[S77th-GOYA]

Afterburner thrust is about right for the F-15, so long as you're not hauling weapons (the on-pylon drag is wrong)

I'll point you to the flanker racking up a mach 2.6 top speed at high alt, unloaded and light ... while the F-15 maybe reaches 2.4.

 

It feels almost like you're flying a 95% trim F-15 vs. an uptrimmed, v-maxed Su-27 :P

 

Post a track. My testing says the 15 is faster than the 27.

 

F-15 - 1371 knots - Mach 2.386

 

MiG-29S - 1382 knots - Mach 2.406

 

Su-27 - 1330 knots - Mach 2.316

 

All speeds achieved at ~36,200 feet, clean configuration, just before all fuel consumed.

[GGTharos]

Yep, you're right. I wonder why I remember that number - but it may well be out-dated by now.