FLCS and Ground Handling Related

[Terzi]

Firstly I would like to mention that I am aware of ground handling in Viper has recently been adjusted. And I also know that FLCS will be tuned further.

 

I had discussion with real life Viper pilot related to DCS F-16. He said that when you land the F-16 you don't even need do stick inputs to keep the nose at where it is for aerobraking. In DCS we have hard time to keep the nose where it is. I guess that needs some fixing.

 

Also he mentioned that after landing the nose does not drift left or right so violently such as in DCS. He said important thing is to apply both wheel brakes at the same time.

 

Another thing is that during refueling he mentioned that once the aircraft is steady for contact he does not need to do any stick inputs or just very tiny inputs. It is such a steady airplane. Then until the transfer is complete all that he does is to do very very tiny throttle adjustments. In DCS the plane constantly needs stick adjustments in order to keep the contact.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Terzi

[ebabil]

It was being discussed recently. Strangely, most of the player are happy with ground handling. 

I am not a pilot but viper makes me feel that my life is at stake during landing

 

. 

[Icebeat]

Quote

most of the player are happy with ground handling

I honestly find very difficult to control the Viper in ground (Take off and landing), I dare to anyone to maintain the plane straight during take off, it is impossible.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Icebeat

[Dee-Jay]

1 hour ago, Icebeat said:

I honestly find very difficult to control the Viper in ground (Take off and landing), I dare to anyone to maintain the plane straight during take off, it is impossible.

Well ... I do not have the same experience here. It's okay.

 

"Takeoff & Landing" track (Nevada) : https://www.dropbox.com/s/dlropgjslebk4ly/Takoff %26 Landing.trk?dl=0

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Dee-Jay

[KaptinKaos]

16 hours ago, Icebeat said:

I honestly find very difficult to control the Viper in ground (Take off and landing), I dare to anyone to maintain the plane straight during take off, it is impossible.

 

 

Straight take off isn't that difficult really, but without massive inputs on rudder and a feathering of left/right brakes to keep it straight on the runway while landing it's a handful. I feel like the stability needs some tweaking though if the 16 is this unstable compared to the F-18 which seems pretty rock steady on take off and landing.

[SCPanda]

+1 I think viper's ground handling should be improved further. Like what Terzi's viper pilot friend told him, the jet should be much more stable. I am not a pilot, but from my experience of flying the viper in another f-16 simulator (cannot say the name due to forum rule), I agree that during aerobreaking you don't need really pull the stick to keep the nose up. Also, I agree the FLCS should help you keep your nose pointing straight without drifting left and right. F-16 should be a VERY easy jet to land. 

 

But, like ED said, they are focusing on the hornet for now, and everything on the viper is wip due to its ea state at the moment. When ED finishes the hornet, I do hope they could take a look at those stuff tho. I think those stuff are much more important than all the weapon systems and avionics, and should be their priority to work on. 

[SCPanda]

On 12/2/2020 at 1:50 AM, ebabil said:

It was being discussed recently. Strangely, most of the player are happy with ground handling. 

I am not a pilot but viper makes me feel that my life is at stake during landing

 

. 

I think it's because those people don't really know how easy the handling of the F-16 should be on the ground. They just assumed it's fine because they can takeoff and land the jet with no problem. I do can takeoff and land the viper in dcs at the moment fine, but I know it's not how the jet should feel like. 

[Dee-Jay]

58 minutes ago, SCPanda said:

but from my experience of flying the viper in another f-16 simulator (cannot say the name due to forum rule), I agree that during aerobreaking you don't need really pull the stick to keep the nose up. Also, I agree the FLCS should help you keep your nose pointing straight without drifting left and right...

 

Good catch SCPanda!

 

I didn't paid attention to this before. You're right. Normally, during aerobraking we should stay on landing gain pitch rate command (until 10° then goes into blended mode).

Something is wrong in FLCS and/or goes into ground gain mode to early.

 

EDIT:

Track: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lxdduacivqjjy1w/Landing Gain.trk?dl=0

Nose should (more or less/roughly) remains stable (hands off) below 10° pitch on ground.

Elevators are not on LG mode on the ground (do not "stay on position" => do not try to maintain commended pitch) after landing before meeting GG conditions. (LG/GG logic seems non existent).

 

Side note: Landing gear handle (lollypop) it still working wrong.

 

Regards.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Dee-Jay

[Glide]

I suspect it's related to the braking action itself.  From what I have seen, the best strategy is the mash the brakes as soon as you have wheels down.  If you look back at the runway, you will see black patches of rubber where you lost traction.  I don't believe the brakes should lock up like that, but I don't have rudder pedals.  Do rudder pedals allow more gradual braking force?

[Dee-Jay]

1 hour ago, glide said:

I suspect it's related to the braking action itself.  From what I have seen, the best strategy is the mash the brakes as soon as you have wheels down.  If you look back at the runway, you will see black patches of rubber where you lost traction.  I don't believe the brakes should lock up like that,...

Anti Skid is not implemented.

[KaptinKaos]

5 hours ago, Dee-Jay said:

Anti Skid is not implemented.

This would account for why the F-16 is such a slewing beast under braking. I've been compensating just by differentially steering with the brakes.

[SCPanda]

On 12/4/2020 at 1:28 AM, Dee-Jay said:

Anti Skid is not implemented.

Wow, I didn't know that. This explains why I got my F-16 "drifting" during braking the other day. It only happened once but it was impossible to control the jet when the "drifting" happened.

Edited December 7, 2020 by SCPanda

[_SteelFalcon_]

It seems to actually stop faster if you only apply like 80% brakes (if you have them on an axis). Full brakes feels like tokyo drift

[Glide]

Without anti-skid, I believe the best strategy is to pump the brakes on and off to keep from locking up.  I tap the brake key once per second thereabouts. 

[Rhinozherous]

I hope we soon get updates for such important sytems like more stable flcs, antiskid and the SPI. 

[_Spad_]

15 hours ago, glide said:

Without anti-skid, I believe the best strategy is to pump the brakes on and off to keep from locking up.  I tap the brake key once per second thereabouts. 

 

This is my technique also. Seems to work ok.