Best option for in cockpit controls manipulation.

[KungFu]

Ok, so I've found out that trying to hold onto a mouse and twist my neck and body (I'm old) to reach switches in hard to reach places isn't feasible even when on the deck.  

 

I have an index with both controllers, but it's a bit cumbersome to switch between controller and HOTAS just to flick a switch.   Yea I could just bind a switch on the throttle for common switches, but then you are going by feel in VR and that ain't really efficient either 

 

I've looked at captoglove and vrfree, the former is on backorder but price is ok, the latter is pretty expensive 

 

I realize there is probably not an ideal solution for every situation but are there any better options than what I've mentioned 

[speed-of-heat]

yoou can bind a button to the left mouse button and another to the right in the UI settings 

[KungFu]

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

yoou can bind a button to the left mouse button and another to the right in the UI settings 

 

Here is the thing, lets say I'm trying to flip a switch on the back right panel of the 16 or the blackshark, I have to twist my head and body so far so see the panel that it's hard to keep my hand on the mouse (right handed), much less have the precision to click an individual switch.    

[captainHelmet]

I like to use a trackball that sits right next to my stick.  It never moves, so I don't have to hunt for it and it is a lot easier to control in vr than a mouse.  You can also use the big scroll wheel around the trackball to turn knobs.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

I can´t wait for PointCTRL, it´s a device which tracks two small wireless finger pointers of each hand for hardly $200

https://youtu.be/74g1VYkDOo0

[speed-of-heat]

47 minutes ago, KungFu said:

 

Here is the thing, lets say I'm trying to flip a switch on the back right panel of the 16 or the blackshark, I have to twist my head and body so far so see the panel that it's hard to keep my hand on the mouse (right handed), much less have the precision to click an individual switch.    

when you click on a switch with HOTAS button the mosue pointer appears, moving your head moves the mouse pointer 

[javelina1]

5 hours ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

I can´t wait for PointCTRL, it´s a device which tracks two small wireless finger pointers of each hand for hardly $200

https://youtu.be/74g1VYkDOo0

^^^ THIS!   I've been using it for quite a while now.  Works fantastic. 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

25 minutes ago, javelina1 said:

^^^ THIS!   I've been using it for quite a while now.  Works fantastic. 

Oh you lucky person. Being waiting since last August for mine

[KungFu]

That looks to be the most cost effective solution, too bad the waiting list is so long (time wise)  

[Munkwolf]

Also old, and also had same issues with trying to hit switches in back left or right comfortably. I tried out a couple of 24-key X-Keys, one on each side, and have a control scheme going that I'm liking a lot. Feels like I can intuitively (at least for me) map any side instruments to them.

 

I have one on each side, mounted behind joystick and throttle, landscape style (6x4 buttons). Inside column of 4 buttons on each used by my thumbs are (from top to bottom) Win, Ctl, Alt, and a Mode Toggle button. Left win/ctl/alt for left X-Key, right win/ctl/alt for right X-Key, for my instrument modifiers. To the outside of the Mode Toggle button at bottom-inside corner on each side are left and right shift, for my action modifiers. Rest of the buttons are actionable. Mode toggle is separate set of DX buttons.. which I actually haven't had any use for mapping those yet since the Win/Alt/Clt + LShift/RShift scheme has worked so well for me so far.

 

For the Win/Ctl/Alt column of keys as my instrument modifiers... Holding the windows key on right X-Key i know i'm focused on the forward most instrument on right side (the one closest to the window), like the countermeasures control panel in A-10. Holding control on right X-Key (my back-most "instrument modifier"), I know i'm focusing on the back-most instrument on the right (the tough ones to get to). If I'm not holding down Win/Ctl/Alt, I know it's for the primary instrument directly to my side.

 

Then it's a matter of mapping the controls of that instrument (at least the ones I care about) to the 20-ish buttons left on the X-Key. Like the A-10 countermeasure panel, it's got the 4 buttons and 4 switches in 2 rows, those go on the first 2 rows of the X-Key pad. For more complicated panels, like the CDU, I use the Win/Ctl/Alt modifiers on the opposite X-Key to handle sub-layers.

 

On the bottom row, keys 2 and 3 to the outside of the Mode Toggle button, are left and right shift as my action modifiers. I don't use them for straight On/Off toggles. For dials or such though, holding down left shift will move a control CCW or down, holding right shift will it CW or up.. holding both shifts allow for 4th action, like toggling a switch cover.

 

I'm really liking it ever since I set it up this way. I haven't had a lack of keys available to map. It helps keep the focus on where the actual controls are in the plane, but much quicker than clicking on them with the mouse.

 

This would likely be a lot easier to understand if I through together a graphic. I can, if anyone is interested.

[KungFu]

I get ya, I've got 2 Thrustmaster MFDs that I use for well, MFDs in the aircraft that has them.  It's easy enough to feel the buttons.  With aircraft without MFDs I sometimes use them for other switches, but it just doesn't feel right.

 

I went ahead and signed up on the list for PointCTLR...email said hopefully shipping within 60days...we will see,  I have a swivel chair so I can just swivel around if I need to and not have to strain to hold onto the mouse for the clicking.  Looks like  it may have uses outside of DCS since it emulates a mouse.

[PhoenixRising]

I was just saying today that PointCtrl was some of the best money I have spent for flight simming. I hate flying without my finger lasers.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

[dburne]

I am going to have to get one of those Point Controls.

 

I have mouse functions assigned in UI Layer to my stick - sometimes I use those, sometimes I just use my mouse.

[GunSlingerAUS]

I have a trackball on a dedicated ledge on my HOTAS stand. It works very well. 

[GunSlingerAUS]

On 2/1/2021 at 10:36 AM, PhoenixRising said:

I was just saying today that PointCtrl was some of the best money I have spent for flight simming. I hate flying without my finger lasers.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
 

 

So have all the early teething problems of the PointCtrl been ironed out? I was very interested in this device when it launched, but I then read a lot of people saying it was both a nightmare to get it working, and it never really worked well?

[dburne]

7 hours ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

 

So have all the early teething problems of the PointCtrl been ironed out? I was very interested in this device when it launched, but I then read a lot of people saying it was both a nightmare to get it working, and it never really worked well?

 

Based on this video it would seem so.

I am certainly looking forward to getting mine.

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by dburne

[KungFu]

10 hours ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

 

So have all the early teething problems of the PointCtrl been ironed out? I was very interested in this device when it launched, but I then read a lot of people saying it was both a nightmare to get it working, and it never really worked well?

 

It seems as though it has.  He has v2 now which is what is in the video above looks like.  The email I received after going on the list says: "We are currently starting production for PointCTRL Version 2, and our goal is to have all preorders shipped within 60 days."

[PicklePicklePickle]

I know this is not glamorous at all, but it works very well for me. I have one of these right next to my HOTAS stick, as close as possible without getting in the way:

Expert Mouse® Wired Trackball | Trackballs | Trackball Mouse | Kensington

 

Since it doesn't move around like a regular mouse, it is always in the same place and I can effortlessly reach and move switches as needed. I also use VR, so i look at the switch in the cockpit and the cursor is already close, the trackball has little work to do. Again, super easy to find with the headset on.

Edited February 2, 2021 by PicklePicklePickle

[GunSlingerAUS]

2 hours ago, PicklePicklePickle said:

I know this is not glamorous at all, but it works very well for me. I have one of these right next to my HOTAS stick, as close as possible without getting in the way:

Expert Mouse® Wired Trackball | Trackballs | Trackball Mouse | Kensington

 

Since it doesn't move around like a regular mouse, it is always in the same place and I can effortlessly reach and move switches as needed. I also use VR, so i look at the switch in the cockpit and the cursor is already close, the trackball has little work to do. Again, super easy to find with the headset on.

 

 

That is the exact same solution I'm using. I have a small platform on my Monstertech stand below the throttle for the trackball - it's not in an ideal place, but works well enough for now.

10 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Based on this video it would seem so.

I am certainly looking forward to getting mine.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, does indeed look improved, but I think I'll wait until I read user reports before taking the plunge.

[PhoenixRising]

 
So have all the early teething problems of the PointCtrl been ironed out? I was very interested in this device when it launched, but I then read a lot of people saying it was both a nightmare to get it working, and it never really worked well?

Calibration was a little bit of a pain, but I have not had issues with it once that was done, and you only have to do that once. He has streamlined and improved the calibration procedures as things went along.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

[westr]

I currently have left right mouse and rotary switches mapped to my Hotas and can point to things with my headset. But I’ve just purchased a ring mouse and am waiting for it to arrive. For £40 I thought it’s worth a go and is a lot cheaper than point ctrl which does look good I admit but seems a bit pricey to me plus the long waiting time. I shall see how it goes but it looks pretty workable with your thumb whilst still using your hotas. 

[Notso]

On 1/27/2021 at 8:43 AM, KungFu said:

Ok, so I've found out that trying to hold onto a mouse and twist my neck and body (I'm old) to reach switches in hard to reach places isn't feasible even when on the deck.  

 

I have an index with both controllers, but it's a bit cumbersome to switch between controller and HOTAS just to flick a switch.   Yea I could just bind a switch on the throttle for common switches, but then you are going by feel in VR and that ain't really efficient either 

 

I've looked at captoglove and vrfree, the former is on backorder but price is ok, the latter is pretty expensive 

 

I realize there is probably not an ideal solution for every situation but are there any better options than what I've mentioned 

I have found a fixed trackball works best for this.  That way your hand doesn't have to move, but you can flick the cursor with the ball to where you need to around the cockpit.  I have a small little pad right next to my right hip where the trackball sits and its easy to just drop your hand there to manipulate a switch.  Ideally the left side is better because you can take your left hand off the throttle while still flying with your right, But I the track ball and the throttle get in the way of each other for a natural position for your hand to find it.  But everyone is different.  It works well for me.

On 1/27/2021 at 10:26 AM, captainHelmet said:

I like to use a trackball that sits right next to my stick.  It never moves, so I don't have to hunt for it and it is a lot easier to control in vr than a mouse.  You can also use the big scroll wheel around the trackball to turn knobs.

This^^.  I posted before I read this.  Yes, the big scroll ring around the ball is perfect for turning knobs.  

[AlpineGTA]

I was just going to post... does anyone else think the scroll wheel on their trackball mouse very slow when using it to rotate knobs, especially compared to when using the thumb stick on a VR controller? For example, with a VR thumb stick I can spin a lighting knob very fast but it takes an age with the mouse wheel... But then I look down at my mouse and for the first time notice there's a 'Low/High' switch above the wheel! mmm... I wonder if the high setting will make it spin faster - immediately goes off to try... 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

2 hours ago, AlpineGTA said:

I was just going to post... does anyone else think the scroll wheel on their trackball mouse very slow when using it to rotate knobs, especially compared to when using the thumb stick on a VR controller? For example, with a VR thumb stick I can spin a lighting knob very fast but it takes an age with the mouse wheel... But then I look down at my mouse and for the first time notice there's a 'Low/High' switch above the wheel! mmm... I wonder if the high setting will make it spin faster - immediately goes off to try... 

I think you can combo left click on the trackball + scroll the ball upwards and downwards for fast spinning

[AlpineGTA]

Nice tip, thanks. I'll give that a try too.