not planned Easy mode AAR

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Tank50us said:

Obviously someone with a full simpit and VR is going to have an easier time than someone just starting out with a Sidewinder.

A simpit (cockpit building?) has nothing to do with AAR skill. Maybe VR would help but practice matters more than your controls.

1 hour ago, Extranajero said:

Enabling unlimited fuel brings aircraft performance issues if you are waddling around with permanently full tanks, some of them quite severe.

You can change your fuel amount in the Mission Planner even if you’ve selected Unlimited Fuel. 
 

DCS doesn’t need an Easy AAR feature simply because doing this isn’t necessary in order to play the game. Yes it’s a fun and rewarding skill but it’s not mandatory. There are many workarounds already available. Using Unlimited Fuel, flying shorter missions etc. In single player DLC campaigns always have a workaround and multiplayer is of course unscripted so there’s no mandate there either. Not being able to do this is no real loss. 
 

Edited January 7, 2024 by SharpeXB

[upyr1]

2 hours ago, Exorcet said:

real pilots say it's harder in DCS, even if you have the best setup.

I believe this is the most important statement in the whole thread. I'd like to know what pilots are saying this and the reason. Are USAF pilots saying this or is everyone saying this?  

 

[BIGNEWY]

As mentioned before this is not planned for DCS

threads merged and locked.

A reminder for all, keep the feedback civil, there are no need for insults.

[Akula]

A great feature that gives new players and players not used to combat sims the OPTION to auto refuel. Not arguing it’s realism. What I am arguing is the appeal of having the OPTION so that new players can fly with friends and in servers and on long missions without the fear and anxiety of losing an hour or more of their flying experience just because they ran out of gas trying to tank. 
 

Wanna attract MORE customers and make MORE money? Do this. 
 

Falcon 4.0 had it from the get go and wouldn’t you know it. I still learned how to AAR on my own even though I used that feature all the time while trying to learn it. 

Edited September 13, 2024 by Akula

[sirrah]

Let's please not repeat this trip down toxicity road all over again...

(Take special note on Bignewy's last reply in that thread)

 

 

(The above thread, is one of many btw)

[cfrag]

3 hours ago, sirrah said:

Let's please not repeat this trip down toxicity road

And I was looking forward to 20 pages of "git gud!" vs. "screw you" comments. Drat.

[MAXsenna]

Why start a new thread when we already have numerous?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[upyr1]

On some two seaters this would be a realistic option (F-4E, F-15E) 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

18 hours ago, cfrag said:

And I was looking forward to 20 pages of "git gud!" vs. "screw you" comments. Drat.

Same. We even had the "get more customers!" assertion!

[Ignition]

Kind off-topic but I still remember YEARS ago when ED said they were making new drogue physics, LOL

An option for easy AAR would be a very nice addition, I wouldn't use it but I see a moderate portion of the players would.

Also it would make the missions realistic.

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

5 hours ago, Ignition said:

Kind off-topic but I still remember YEARS ago when ED said they were making new drogue physics, LOL

An option for easy AAR would be a very nice addition, I wouldn't use it but I see a moderate portion of the players would.

Also it would make the missions realistic.

 

I wouldn't use it, but I wouldn't actually mind seeing it implemented. But, more than that? I want to see them bring realistic drogue physics in. That might make it easier, even.

[SteelPig]

5 hours ago, Ignition said:

Kind off-topic but I still remember YEARS ago when ED said they were making new drogue physics, LOL

An option for easy AAR would be a very nice addition, I wouldn't use it but I see a moderate portion of the players would.

Also it would make the missions realistic.

 

I really don't see how it would make the missions more realistic. 

In general, it's a question how far you wanna go with the "little helpers". There are other easy modes, like radio. But every single one pushes DCS a little more away from what it want to be. 
So you can ask the question: What prevents you from learning to AR?

[sirrah]

Quite a coincidence, this thread now . I just finished working on a F-16 AAR training mission. For those interested, you can find it here:

 

 

[Ignition]

4 hours ago, SteelPig said:

I really don't see how it would make the missions more realistic. 

In general, it's a question how far you wanna go with the "little helpers". There are other easy modes, like radio. But every single one pushes DCS a little more away from what it want to be. 
So you can ask the question: What prevents you from learning to AR?

IRL pretty much any mission needs to do at least 1 AAR, so yes it would make DCS missions more realistic for all the people who can't do AAR right now.

AAR is one of the most difficult things to do in an aircraft, even more in a simulator and not everyone has the time to train for that or are not skilled enough or don't have the right equipment. It took me several days of training exclusively AAR in the F-18C, every single day until I could do it regularly and then much more time for perfection. When I transitioned to the F-16C it took me less time but it was REALLY different and then the same when transitioned to the F-15E. The time and effort to train this is big.

It's very hard and I see why people want a "helper".

The radios are MUCH more simple to manage than AAR and the easy radios can be disabled, I don't see why this couldn't have an option also.

[SteelPig]

2 hours ago, Ignition said:

IRL pretty much any mission needs to do at least 1 AAR, so yes it would make DCS missions more realistic for all the people who can't do AAR right now.

AAR is one of the most difficult things to do in an aircraft, even more in a simulator and not everyone has the time to train for that or are not skilled enough or don't have the right equipment. It took me several days of training exclusively AAR in the F-18C, every single day until I could do it regularly and then much more time for perfection. When I transitioned to the F-16C it took me less time but it was REALLY different and then the same when transitioned to the F-15E. The time and effort to train this is big.

It's very hard and I see why people want a "helper".

The radios are MUCH more simple to manage than AAR and the easy radios can be disabled, I don't see why this couldn't have an option also.

Yes, it is one of the hardest things in flying. But here we are at the point where people tell you that's exactly what they want from DCS. 
The radios are much more simple to manage, but they aren't a core of flying a fighter jet. So there is an argument to say "easy comms yes, easy AR no". 
And when AR is part of almost any mission, than it is realistic that you need to be able to do it. Not to skip it. 

[Akula]

Again, this is about CHOICE, not realism. 

 

You wanna treat this game like you're a real life fighter pilot, fill yer boots. It doesn't mean everyone else needs to be as hard core. 

More choice, more new pilots, more diversity in game and more money for ED. 

[Dangerzone]

Would an API call to modify the fuel in a jet (like we can now do with warehouses) be an alternative option? My initial thoughts is not only could this allow mission designers themselves to implement this (or not) into their missions (such as if you fly within x miles from a tanker you could use a F10 menu option to 'top up', and have it work), but it could also allow campaign makers a more versatile way of doing things as well.

Imagine landing your plane, and then seeing a fuel truck drive over, and start filling it up automatically - without you having to use the F10 menu. This could all be done by script if an API to allow adjusting onboard fuel quantity was opened for us to use.

The reason I suggest this as an alternative is that I'm pretty sure BN has stated that they will not be implementing AAR assist features into DCS. Therefore, an alternative way of doing this (putting the power in the hands of people for instance) via API might be a alternative path that has other benefits too.

I'm not sold on the API idea - just throwing it out there as an alternative suggestion. It could be much easier on ED to implement, and open up more doors than we realise.

[draconus]

On 9/14/2024 at 1:29 AM, Akula said:

What I am arguing is the appeal of having the OPTION so that new players can fly with friends and in servers and on long missions without the fear and anxiety of losing an hour or more of their flying experience just because they ran out of gas trying to tank.

You wanna haul them nuggets for hours in one mission they'll quickly regret trying DCS and you'll bore them to death in the meantime.

[cfrag]

5 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

This could all be done by script if an API to allow adjusting onboard fuel quantity was opened for us to use.

If we had a proper unit fuel API (heck, a frigging stop-gap unit:setFuel(percent) for the main tank(s) would probably suffice to tide us over) these ridiculous discussions would be a thing of the past. Any scripter worth their salt would have created a good air-to-air refueling script quickly.  

[SteelPig]

13 hours ago, Akula said:

Again, this is about CHOICE, not realism. 

 

You wanna treat this game like you're a real life fighter pilot, fill yer boots. It doesn't mean everyone else needs to be as hard core. 

More choice, more new pilots, more diversity in game and more money for ED. 

This choice has been made by everyone here. They decided to play DCS instead of Ace Combat or WarThunder. 

[Exorcet]

On 9/15/2024 at 1:24 PM, SteelPig said:

And when AR is part of almost any mission, than it is realistic that you need to be able to do it. Not to skip it. 

It's up to the player to do whatever they want. You can fly an entire campaign without even touching refueling, DCS allows this. We're in a sim, not real life. We can pick and choose.

[cfrag]

On 9/15/2024 at 7:24 PM, SteelPig said:

So there is an argument to say "easy comms yes, easy AR no". 

and

3 hours ago, SteelPig said:

They decided to play DCS instead of Ace Combat or WarThunder

Ah, team "git gud". Tell me, when you embark on one of those multi-hour missions, do you also strap on a piddle pack? Because there's the same argument to say  "easy comms yes, easy pee no"? It is realistic that you need to learn to sit in your own juices for hours on end?

"Git gud" my left foot.

Let's roll another 20 pages of silly arguments.

[Akula]

9 hours ago, SteelPig said:

This choice has been made by everyone here. They decided to play DCS instead of Ace Combat or WarThunder. 

Typical elitist reply. Must have taken some serious brain power. 

[Akula]

On 9/16/2024 at 2:50 PM, cfrag said:

and

Ah, team "git gud". Tell me, when you embark on one of those multi-hour missions, do you also strap on a piddle pack? Because there's the same argument to say  "easy comms yes, easy pee no"? It is realistic that you need to learn to sit in your own juices for hours on end?

"Git gud" my left foot.

Let's roll another 20 pages of silly arguments.

The elitist fanboys argue realism but cry and run back to “git gud” when someone tells them that DCS should have any type of choice or assistants in the game.

I’ve read forum posts from new and seasoned pilots asking for DCS to add audible warnings from the crew when refuelling. Simple things like “30 - 20 - 10 - contact…” or; “Entering left/right turn” or; “up - down - back - forward…” while on the boom.

And, just because they asked for it, they get piled on by players who learned it despite this touch of *realism* that would have helped them if they had it with they were learning. 

Basically it’s the

- “I didn’t have it when I was learning but since I can’t take a second to step out of my own skin and admit that this is more realistic, I’ll just try to harass and shame anyone who wants a better experience.” -

Attitude. 
 

So you want realism but not if it helps pilots enjoy the game and not if you didn’t have it when you were learning, got it!

Maybe we shouldn’t have LSO’s or the fresnel lens system. Let’s be tough guys and hand fly it in by guessing.

This strikes a nerve with me because when I learn something in DCS and teach my friends how to do it I try to add as many tips and tricks to help them succeed. I want them to succeed by any means possible, not hold them back to “teach them the hard way.” It’s an archaic and counterproductive way of thinking that does nothing but turn people off. 

When we have a choice it’s BETTER, not worse.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Akula

[MAXsenna]

The elitist fanboys argue realism but cry and run back to “git gud” when someone tells them that DCS should have any type of choice or assistants in the game.
I’ve read forum posts from new and seasoned pilots asking for DCS to add audible warnings from the crew when refuelling. Simple things like “30 - 20 - 10 - contact…” or; “Entering left/right turn” or; “up - down - back - forward…” while on the boom.
And, just because they asked for it, they get piled on by players who learned it despite this touch of *realism* that would have helped them if they had it with they were learning. 
Basically it’s the
- “I didn’t have it when I was learning but since I can’t take a second to step out of my own skin and admit that this is more realistic, I’ll just try to harass and shame anyone who wants a better experience.” -
Attitude. 
 
So you want realism but not if it helps pilots enjoy the game and not if you didn’t have it when you were learning, got it!

Maybe we shouldn’t have LSO’s or the fresnel lens system. Let’s be tough guys and hand fly it in by guessing.
This strikes a nerve with me because when I learn something in DCS and teach my friends how to do it I try to add as many tips and tricks to help them succeed. I want them to succeed by any means possible, not hold them back to “teach them the hard way.” It’s an archaic and counterproductive way of thinking that does nothing but turn people off. 
When we have a choice it’s BETTER, not worse.

Sure! But you still haven't told us why the need for a new thread.
Should be merged.
I don't care if auto mode gets added. It takes time, but the reward is so fulfilling when you get there. That's what most users are telling you. And as I've said before. The Su-33 is really the easiest one for many reasons. It does have an AAR mode, even if I don't like it. You can lock the tanker with IRST, and the velocity ladder will tell you if you gain on it or not. And the Russian pods will actually do the same. If your perfect, if you get to close, or if you're falling behind.

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