no bug SAMs don't detect bombs

[LetMePickThat]

On 12/15/2021 at 6:08 PM, BIGNEWY said:

which is why I mention our work on the CWIS / CRAM, for any other system we would need evidence. 

Hi Bignewy.

Thanks for the heads-up. Do you plan on adding new CWIS/CRAM systems after adding RCS values to bombs? Follow my gaze...

[Northstar98]

On 1/1/2022 at 6:49 PM, LetMePickThat said:

Hi Bignewy.

Thanks for the heads-up. Do you plan on adding new CWIS/CRAM systems after adding RCS values to bombs? Follow my gaze...

An SA-22 was mentioned in the 2021 roadmap, but beyond that it was never mentioned to my knowledge.

[LetMePickThat]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

An SA-22 was mentioned in the 2021 roadmap, but beyond that it was never mentioned to my knowledge.

Welp, I'll keep working on our version then.

Thanks for the heads-up.

[Default774]

Both aircraft fired rockets or rockets fired by MLRS get intercepted by SAMs capable of attacking munitions(sa10, patriot). There is one problem with this however. Rockets do not seem to be able to trigger proximity fuses on SAMs. This means that even the SA-10 with a virtually non-existent aiming error is mostly incapable of intercepting rockets. Interceptor missiles will just fly straight past the rockets resulting in a near 0% interception rate for most SAM systems.

Another problem arises with the NASAMS; the AIM-120 is incapable of tracking rockets, so the system will fire interceptors which go immediately ballistic and do nothing.

All of this means you can effectively drain a SAM site by firing a salvo of either MLRS rockets or aircraft fired rockets at the rough area around the SAM site. Even small rockets like the hydra will be intercepted. The SAM site will simply fire all of its missiles trying (and failing) to intercept unguided rockets.

As an interim solution rockets could be excluded from being targeted by SAM sites.

rck_4.acmi rck_3.acmi rck_2.acmi rck_1.acmi rck_4.trk rck_3.trk rck_2.trk rck_1.trk

[razo+r]

They said they will do some changes to their systems so that bombs and projectiles can be intercepted. Maybe this here is just the result of a not yet completed development? 

[legitscoper]

How is the thread going? SAMs still don't attack bombs, which is also an exploit on couple of servers, since you can just toss the bombs on pre-found targets, or from cover, and nothing can stop it from coming 

[GGTharos]

1 hour ago, legitscoper said:

How is the thread going? SAMs still don't attack bombs, which is also an exploit on couple of servers, since you can just toss the bombs on pre-found targets, or from cover, and nothing can stop it from coming 

Not an entirely incorrect result.  Not sure why people expect HARM (or indeed ARM of any type) to be better at DEAD than bombs.  It's just not.  While SAMs should generally have the capability to engage bombs, it doesn't mean they'll be successful at it - the missile's fuzes for example might not be designed to engage such a physically small target.  Nut as far as radar and guidance goes, as long as the radar isn't being jammed they should always be able to make the attempt.  Having said that, as mentioned in this thread I would completely expect priority to be given to the mothership though so to sum up ... again, not a particularly incorrect result.

I think more likely is the ease with which you can see dot on the ground, making these SAMs easy to find, and the lack of any useful decision making, decoy emplacement and use or other evasion tactics by the SAMs built into the AI logic.   And of course, the lack of defense layering.

[ngreenaway]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:10 PM, legitscoper said:

How is the thread going? SAMs still don't attack bombs, which is also an exploit on couple of servers, since you can just toss the bombs on pre-found targets, or from cover, and nothing can stop it from coming 

Bombs aren't a valid target for most, if not all SAMs

C-RAM and systems like it, on the other hand, should be fully capable 

[NineLine]

Ok, where are we at here people, can I close this now? I believe we have decided that not everything can be intercepted by all SAM systems?

[ngreenaway]

11 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Ok, where are we at here people, can I close this now? I believe we have decided that not everything can be intercepted by all SAM systems?

I hope so, yes. Despite our (air defender's) assertion "if it flies, it dies" , there is a lot that's not interceptable, would be filtered out by the system, and not even presented to the operators as a target. We didn't even have a symbology or target type for bombs, and in any case even if we did, by the time permission worked it's way through the kill chain, the bombs would be smoldering craters in the ground! 

 

 

[GGTharos]

14 hours ago, NineLine said:

Ok, where are we at here people, can I close this now? I believe we have decided that not everything can be intercepted by all SAM systems?

They should be.  Issues with fuzes etc. aside, it does not mean that the attempt and guidance would not work.

Just have the 'attack bombs' option deselected by default, since the SAM AI right now lacks the ability to properly prioritize, missiles lacks the proper fidelity to simulate fuzing with greater detail that could make this less practical and so on.

If you had a single aircraft and a JDAM on the scope, shooting the JDAM wouldn't be a big deal, IMHO.   Real warfware presents a lot more challenges.

[ngreenaway]

no, it doesnt work like that GG

[MBot]

In the Falklands War, Argentine Roland SAM shot down two 1000 lbs GP bombs. So the possibility exists in principle.

[Nealius]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:32 AM, MBot said:

So the possibility exists in principle.

For specific systems, yes. When I peruse this thread this isn't clearly stated, making it seem like the authors expect any and all SAM systems to be able to intercept bombs.