Vive Pro 2

[Supmua]

36 minutes ago, dburne said:

Seems downsampling is not working properly for me with the VP2 in DCS.

I get better results just reducing the global resolution setting to what I want rather than leaving the global at default and reducing in the per game setting.

 

Still testing... more will follow later today or tomorrow.

 

For this to work properly, you need to restart the game.  It doesn't take effect right away.  I tried High setting mode with high SS (3800+) and not impressed, actually found the image quality not as good as my Index.  For me the only way to run Vive Pro 2 is really at Ultra or Extreme setting.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Supmua

[dburne]

26 minutes ago, Supmua said:

 

For this to work properly, you need to restart the game.  It doesn't take effect right away.  I tried High setting mode with high SS (3800+) and not impressed, actually found the image quality not as good as my Index.  For me the only way to run Vive Pro 2 is really at Ultra or Extreme setting.

 

 

Yes I restart the game each change I make.

I have reduce my Global resolution to around 3200x3200 per eye. I can maintain 45 fps Motion Compensation doing it that way.

If I up my global to default, and then reduce the per game resolution for DCS to 3200x3200, I can not maintain 45 fps - performance is tanked.

I am running my Vive Pro 2 at Ultra.

Edited June 12, 2021 by dburne

[imacken]

I gave up on Vive with my pre-order. Cancelled it and got next day delivery from Amazon.

 

My initial impressions are not good.  However, I need to do a whole load of tweaking to say for sure.

 

Things I'm seeing immediately that I don't like.

 

1) horrible light leak at the sides of the face pad, and I have quite a wide face.

2) not seeing any great increase in FOV over G2

3) not liking the motion compensation effects 

BUT the worst thing is,

4) horrendous cross-eye effects.  Any time there is an overlay, e.g. fpsVR or even the headset IPD adjustment, I have to adjust my eyes to either the overlay or the VR display. Can't focus on both at the same time.  Then, exiting DCS, it takes quite some time for my eyes to refocus.

 

Really not sure atm, but if anyone has any tips to improve my experience, then please let me know!

[Mental_Blade_Stall]

Agree with # 4 from you post.  It is probably because I am new to VR but this is the only game that has the cross eyed / vertical misalignment effect and double vision of text. Shame because this sim is one of the main reasons I got a Vive pro 2 and or VR to begin with.  I am using the debug tool as well to attempt a remedy albeit haven't found a good tutorial or setting that works completely for me.  Just clicking and hoping that something sticks.  Any help or walkthrough from the group would be appreciated in that aspect.  The initial wow its 3D was awesome but was hoping for out of the box go flying not do more research and see if you can figure your hardware out instead of the developer.  Anyone else with these issues?  

[Baldrick33]

43 minutes ago, imacken said:

4) horrendous cross-eye effects.  Any time there is an overlay, e.g. fpsVR or even the headset IPD adjustment, I have to adjust my eyes to either the overlay or the VR display. Can't focus on both at the same time.  Then, exiting DCS, it takes quite some time for my eyes to refocus.

 

Really not sure atm, but if anyone has any tips to improve my experience, then please let me know!

Have you tried the alignment tool in DCS? Some more fiddling around but it is pretty flexible.

 

Edit: although it says WMR it should work for any headset I believe.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Baldrick33

[FoxTwo]

39 minutes ago, imacken said:

I gave up on Vive with my pre-order. Cancelled it and got next day delivery from Amazon.

 

My initial impressions are not good.  However, I need to do a whole load of tweaking to say for sure.

 

Things I'm seeing immediately that I don't like.

 

1) horrible light leak at the sides of the face pad, and I have quite a wide face.

2) not seeing any great increase in FOV over G2

3) not liking the motion compensation effects 

BUT the worst thing is,

4) horrendous cross-eye effects.  Any time there is an overlay, e.g. fpsVR or even the headset IPD adjustment, I have to adjust my eyes to either the overlay or the VR display. Can't focus on both at the same time.  Then, exiting DCS, it takes quite some time for my eyes to refocus.

 

Really not sure atm, but if anyone has any tips to improve my experience, then please let me know!

 

For #1, the light leak is due to the face pad. They put cutout slots for glasses wearers I think? An aftermarket pad would fix this, but it feels like a bad decision. If you put your fingers up to the pad to block the slots, you can see that they are the problem.

 

#2, The FoV increase is... subtle to say the least.

 

Agree with 3. I prefer either none at all or whatever it is that WMR does, because the vive seems to turn it into an impressionist painting.

 

And for 4, it's due to the lens overlap being reduced to increase the FoV. For me, the overall disorientation and eyestrain was NOT worth it.

[dburne]

I replaced my face pads with the Kiwi face pads, much better. Also I am not having any light leak at all.

I do definitely notice an increase in horizontal FOV over my Reverb G2. I have lenses pretty close.

Motion Compensation - must be able to maintain a min of 45 fps. If it drops below, it looks pretty crappy.

Due to this with DCS, can't really take advantage of the higher resolution. I am running about my G2 resolution for DCS.

Other games can benefit.

 

Have not really seen the other affects like cross eyed, but I have not really used any overlays either.

 

Edit: I would add for DCS, VP2 over Reverb G2 for image quality seems mostly a side grade to me.

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by dburne

[imacken]

Thanks guys.  

At the moment, I can see nothing with the VP2 that's going to tempt me away from the G2.  

No improvement in image quality, sweet spot or focus area. 

Audio is a downgrade.

Comfort is poor compared to G2.  Headset feels just like my old VP1 (of course) and feels rather heavy and a bit dated to me.  After a session, I feel a little VR weary in the eyes and head generally.

Still sometimes these things take time to evaluate properly, so I'll carry on testing.

 

PS I tried that alignment tool with a headset before (might have been the VP1) and I just couldn't understand how to use it!

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, imacken said:

Thanks guys.  

At the moment, I can see nothing with the VP2 that's going to tempt me away from the G2.  

No improvement in image quality, sweet spot or focus area. 

Audio is a downgrade.

Comfort is poor compared to G2.  Headset feels just like my old VP1 (of course) and feels rather heavy and a bit dated to me.  After a session, I feel a little VR weary in the eyes and head generally.

Still sometimes these things take time to evaluate properly, so I'll carry on testing.

 

PS I tried that alignment tool with a headset before (might have been the VP1) and I just couldn't understand how to use it!

 

I don't know if this made any difference for me on my end.

When I got my Vive Pro 2, I cleaned out everything prior to installing.

Uninstalled all WMR, uninstalled Steam VR, then cleaned out any leftover files in the appdata folders.

Then installed the Vive Console and Steam VR.

And replaced my face pads with the Kiwi face pads.

 

Looks like I will be very pleased with some other games in the VP2, and am ok with it for DCS. So for me looking like it will be worth it, as I can go back to just one headset for all my games. But much more testing to do.

[Supmua]

Got to play around a bit with the new Vive console update.  It seems they did improve performance/stability with latency quite a bit.  It's very usable with motion compensation off now (wasn't usable for me before when I first got the headset) and actually I prefer this in slower paced games such as MSFS, the verdict is still out there for DCS for me.  I do not see any fps increase.

 

Motion Compensation off.

Pros:

-sharper image, due to no correction.

-zero visual artifacts (besides image skipping due to latency).

-better sense of speed, smoothness, lowered GPU frametime.

Con:

-blurry cockpit for a few seconds when moving head side to side quickly, due to latency.

-blurry ground objects that are close to the plane when you fly very low, similar to motion blur effect in gaming.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Supmua

[imacken]

30 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Con:

-blurry cockpit for a few seconds when moving head side to side quickly, due to latency.

 

That's always been the killer for me. That's why I have always used motion smoothing/reprojection/compensation in previous headsets. However, this implementation by Vive is poor, with liquid type effects which are horrible.

At the moment, for me, it's not great either way. Liquidy when on, and blurry cockpit on head side to side when off.

Not great.

[dburne]

10 minutes ago, imacken said:

That's always been the killer for me. That's why I have always used motion smoothing/reprojection/compensation in previous headsets. However, this implementation by Vive is poor, with liquid type effects which are horrible.

At the moment, for me, it's not great either way. Liquidy when on, and blurry cockpit on head side to side when off.

Not great.

 

You may need to adjust graphics settings and/or resolution - sounds like you are not maintaining the min of 45 fps at times.

[imacken]

Are you referring to on or off?

The 'off' with the juddering dials etc. has been there with every headset I've owned CV1, VP1, Reverb, Index, G2 and now VP2.  Most people don't notice it, but if you move (not turn) your head left to right, you'll see it when you look at cockpit dials.

I'm seeing rock solid 45 fps with 70% SS. The motion smoothing is nothing like as good as SteamVR on the G2.

[eaglecash867]

20 hours ago, Supmua said:

I've been testing an alternative way of settings.  The idea is to leave the general SS to 150% and per-app to 100% (default) in SteamVR, and only change the rendering resolution or pixel density using that particular game's software.  This works really well so far for me in MSFS and DCS, the menu screen and title screen remain tact sharp.

 

For example, in DCS I leave SS at 150% (for me it's 4020x4020, sometimes a tad lower) and use PD 0.6.  The reason for 0.6 is that I can get the frametime that doesn't drop below 22.2ms in Syria Hornet free flight with nice headroom (mostly around 19ms).  At 0.7 it becomes 23ms which goes beyond 1:2 reprojection ratio and results in latency artifacts when turning side to side.  The perfect PD for me is probably around 0.65 which cannot be set in DCS (can probably be approximated by raising Steam's per-app SS slightly above 100%, but still more testing to do).  At PD 0.6 the ground objects become a bit blurry without Reshade, but with Reshade CAS it's pretty good and very smooth.

 

Although I don't own a VP2, I tried doing something similar to this with my G2 today and I'm really pleased with the results.  I don't look at the actual frametimes and so forth, but things do look a little sharper and there is more depth.  Something I definitely noticed right away was a significant improvement in spotting ground targets.  So, thank you for posting this!  

[dburne]

2 hours ago, imacken said:

Are you referring to on or off?

The 'off' with the juddering dials etc. has been there with every headset I've owned CV1, VP1, Reverb, Index, G2 and now VP2.  Most people don't notice it, but if you move (not turn) your head left to right, you'll see it when you look at cockpit dials.

I'm seeing rock solid 45 fps with 70% SS. The motion smoothing is nothing like as good as SteamVR on the G2.

 

I am referring to motion smoothing being on.

Hmm if I am maintaining 45 fps the artifacts are not that bad for me.

Of course this can be subjective too.

 

But yes I agree, Motion Smoothing on and forced to 45 fps in Steam VR with the Reverb G2 is quite good. Even if I dropped a little below 45 fps occasionally it was still good for the most part.

 

[A2597]

So was messaging vive support about how warm my vive was in standby mode. They asked me for some more details, and are now asking to start the RMA process. 

 

Going to bite going back to the cv1 until the replacement arrives...

[DucS2r]

I really appreciate all the reviews. I have decided to go with the G2 for now. HP has it on sale at their online store for $499 for a few more hours and since I only do seated sims it seems like the best value for me. As things improve with the Pro 2 I may upgrade, but going from a Rift S to the G2 will be a nice step up. 

 

[Brainfreeze]

Been following the thread with interest as I was wondering what the Vive pro 2 could bring over the G2 to warrant switching.  For me 2 points could see improvement 1- Sweet spot and 2- FOV.   tech spec of VP2 did not suggest much improvement on FOV (120 vs 114?) and apparently sweet spot is no better.  Seems it settles it. 

[Supmua]

9 hours ago, A2597 said:

So was messaging vive support about how warm my vive was in standby mode. They asked me for some more details, and are now asking to start the RMA process. 

 

Going to bite going back to the cv1 until the replacement arrives...

 

Mine does get warm but my Index is even warmer.  I typically turn off the link box when my PC is off though, this is also recommended in the manual.

[Supmua]

29 minutes ago, Brainfreeze said:

Been following the thread with interest as I was wondering what the Vive pro 2 could bring over the G2 to warrant switching.  For me 2 points could see improvement 1- Sweet spot and 2- FOV.   tech spec of VP2 did not suggest much improvement on FOV (120 vs 114?) and apparently sweet spot is no better.  Seems it settles it. 

 

Sweet spot is less than G2 from what I've read, you need a specific placement on your head to get optimal clarity.  Edge to edge clarity, however, is wider like the Index.  FOV is obviously better especially in the horizontal.  Clarity-wise it should be close.  Software obviously needs a lot of catching up but this is an area that will definitely improve over time.  The hardware is pretty much fixed, so if you don't think you will tolerate certain hardware flaws such as glare then don't.  This is also a device that needs modding (thinner facial pad, mic pop filter, headphones compression against ear) to maximize its true potential.  But again buying from places with good return policy is pretty safe these days and you have nothing to lose from *testing* it yourself.  I have no desire to own a WMR device so this is it for me for the time being.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Supmua

[dburne]

32 minutes ago, Supmua said:

 

Sweet spot is less than G2 from what I've read, you need a specific placement on your head to get optimal clarity.  Edge to edge clarity, however, is wider like the Index.  FOV is obviously better especially in the horizontal.  Clarity-wise it should be close.  Software obviously needs a lot of catching up but this is an area that will definitely improve over time.  The hardware is pretty much fixed, so if you don't think you will tolerate certain hardware flaws such as glare then don't.  This is also a device that needs modding (thinner facial pad, mic pop filter, headphones compression against ear) to maximize its true potential.  But again buying from places with good return policy is pretty safe these days and you have nothing to lose from *testing* it yourself.  I have no desire to own a WMR device so this is it for me for the time being.

 

 

Unless one is also into other made for VR games, I don't think upgrading from Reverb G2 would be worth it especially for DCS. You are not going to be able to run it much higher than default Reverb G2 resolution anyway, and the cost of the whole kit is pretty high. 

 

I like mine and will keep it, but I already had the LIghthouse 2.0 tracking system that came with my Index. I was using Index for made for VR games with controllers, and Reverb G2 for flight sims. Now I can go to just using one headset again with the Vive Pro 2.

But for DCS only it would be just a side grade for the most part. And a lot of money.

Little better horizontal FOV is nice. Tracking is superb. Image clarity is nice (but so is Reverb G2).

 

So far my initial impression is:

If one has Reverb G2 and mainly does flight sim, stay with it.

If one has Index, it is a nice upgrade and you already have tracking system.

If one is still on first gen - Rift CV1 or Vive - very nice upgrade. But for just flight sims, so is Reverb G2 at much less money.

 

Edit:  I have about 7-8 hours in with my Vive Pro 2 so far. I am liking it pretty good at this point, but want to get more time with more games in with it . For DCS I have not gained anything over Reverb G2 cept a little more horizontal FOV. Pretty sure it is a keeper for me at this point unless something happens to it.  But I also do other made for VR games in addition to flight sims. The beauty of being retired.

Edited June 13, 2021 by dburne

[Baldrick33]

50 minutes ago, Brainfreeze said:

Been following the thread with interest as I was wondering what the Vive pro 2 could bring over the G2 to warrant switching.  For me 2 points could see improvement 1- Sweet spot and 2- FOV.   tech spec of VP2 did not suggest much improvement on FOV (120 vs 114?) and apparently sweet spot is no better.  Seems it settles it. 

I think it depends how much you value extra FOV an edge to edge clarity over clarity in centre.

 

FOV wise personally I have a dislike for a binocular type view where the there is a clear distinction between the lenses constantly in view. No amount of IPD or eye relief can overcome that. I disliked it on the Pimax 5K+ when I had that and it was very noticeable on the VP2 coming from a G1. The Reverb has a more circular telescope type view - which some will dislike, but I never see the distinction between lenses. My recollection of the Index was similar - just a bigger circle which I thought was excellent.

 

Clarity wise for my long sighted near 60 year old eyes the VP2 falls well short of the Reverb. I don't think any amount of software updates will change that, the panel and lenses just seem inferior in spite of the resolution. I mention long sighted as my gut feel is the focal distance is shorter on the VP2. Some Googling seems to confirm that Vives are lower distance than Reverbs but there is some conflicting reports. So maybe what I see is different to someone with perfect or near sighted vision comparing the two?

 

With the caveat of the paragraph above, image wise the VP2 is a downgrade from the G2 in my view.

 

 

[imacken]

44 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I think it depends how much you value extra FOV an edge to edge clarity over clarity in centre.

 

FOV wise personally I have a dislike for a binocular type view where the there is a clear distinction between the lenses constantly in view. No amount of IPD or eye relief can overcome that. I disliked it on the Pimax 5K+ when I had that and it was very noticeable on the VP2 coming from a G1. The Reverb has a more circular telescope type view - which some will dislike, but I never see the distinction between lenses. My recollection of the Index was similar - just a bigger circle which I thought was excellent.

 

Clarity wise for my long sighted near 60 year old eyes the VP2 falls well short of the Reverb. I don't think any amount of software updates will change that, the panel and lenses just seem inferior in spite of the resolution. I mention long sighted as my gut feel is the focal distance is shorter on the VP2. Some Googling seems to confirm that Vives are lower distance than Reverbs but there is some conflicting reports. So maybe what I see is different to someone with perfect or near sighted vision comparing the two?

 

With the caveat of the paragraph above, image wise the VP2 is a downgrade from the G2 in my view.

 

 

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. There is no doubt the VP2 has a shorter focal length. I am long sighted and I don’t really need to wear my glasses on the G2. However, without glasses, the VP2 is really blurred and when I put on glasses, it is clear. 
I think this also explains the whole cross eye thing I’m seeing as well. 

[A2597]

I've been turning off my link box after each use once I learned how warm the headset stayed. They still started RMA.

[imacken]

For all you guys with the Kiwi face pads, are they the same width (length) as the VP2 original?

 I’m beginning to wonder if I have bought the wrong thing as mine are about 1 inch narrower in length.