FLIR display quality

[Beirut]

I'm not one of the really hardcore techno-flyers so there are things I miss, but is the Horner FLIR display really that much blurrier than the Harrier display? The Harrier display, at night, is razor sharp and the Hornet is fuzzy.

 

Would/should they not be comparable?

[Hulkbust44]

I'm not one of the really hardcore techno-flyers so there are things I miss, but is the Horner FLIR display really that much blurrier than the Harrier display? The Harrier display, at night, is razor sharp and the Hornet is fuzzy.
 
Would/should they not be comparable?

When comparing the LITENINGs the Harrier pod is significantly better than everything but the A-10s

FLIR is in the process of a rework, looks like it will come with the Apache.

Mobius708

[shagrat]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Beirut:

I'm not one of the really hardcore techno-flyers so there are things I miss, but is the Horner FLIR display really that much blurrier than the Harrier display? The Harrier display, at night, is razor sharp and the Hornet is fuzzy.

 

Would/should they not be comparable?

Depends, if the Hornet uses a Gen 4 Litening, or an older one. There is a lot of upgrading optimization that took place over the last decades since the Litening was introduced. 

[Harlikwin]

10 minutes ago, shagrat said:

Depends, if the Hornet uses a Gen 4 Litening, or an older one. There is a lot of upgrading optimization that took place over the last decades since the Litening was introduced. 

 

Hornet if its 05 should be using 2nd gen Litening pod, while the harrier which is now like 2018 time frame gets the Gen4 (ish) litening, the Gen4 is significant upgrade in terms of clarity, and the Raz one is missing SWIR which adds some other interesting possibilities, though I doubt ED or whoever is gonna model that.

 

[Hulkbust44]

Yeah the Hornet's upgrade is the ATFLIR.

Mobius708

[Beirut]

I just figured that since the Hornet is the Space Shuttle of Death with all the high-tech bells and whistles that its FLIR would (at least) match the Harrier's.

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

I just figured that since the Hornet is the Space Shuttle of Death with all the high-tech bells and whistles that its FLIR would (at least) match the Harrier's.

 

Well back in 2005 it did. The harrier is just a more modern module at this point. 

 

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Well back in 2005 it did. The harrier is just a more modern module at this point. 

 

 

I'm surprised. I figured with all the toys added to the Hornet, it was a more modern plane.

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

I'm surprised. I figured with all the toys added to the Hornet, it was a more modern plane.

 

I mean the harrier started as some early 2000's franken harrier, then Razbam got better docs/access so now its the "most modern" plane they can make. At the end of the day all of this "might" change with the upcoming FLIR/IR model. But who knows how fast or how well. Frankly IMO people expect waay too much from flir or TGP's.

 

[Shimmergloom667]

12 hours ago, Beirut said:

I'm not one of the really hardcore techno-flyers so there are things I miss, but is the Horner FLIR display really that much blurrier than the Harrier display? The Harrier display, at night, is razor sharp and the Hornet is fuzzy.

 

Would/should they not be comparable?

 

Every FLIR we have in the game right now is overperforming. I hope they all get tuned down and get more realistic visuals with the upcoming FLIR rework.

[Gierasimov]

50 minutes ago, Shimmergloom667 said:

 

Every FLIR we have in the game right now is overperforming. I hope they all get tuned down and get more realistic visuals with the upcoming FLIR rework.

If that statement is based on your subject matter expertise, it would be good if you could "prove" this with relevant documentation to the ED, so that perhaps DCS could benefit from it. 

[Shimmergloom667]

Just now, Gierasimov said:

If that statement is based on your subject matter expertise, it would be good if you could "prove" this with relevant documentation to the ED, so that perhaps DCS could benefit from it. 

No, it is based on dozens of videos of LITENINGs, ATFLIRs, various civilian camera systems etc. performing in regular old athmospheric conditions.

 

Heatblur come close with their LANTIRN implementation that features quality loss in digital zoom (not present in either EDs LITENING or ATFLIR), sensor overexposure, DIS come close with thjeir implemenation of zoom and focus in the WMD7.

 

All that is lacking in EDs TGPs right now.

[Gierasimov]

4 minutes ago, Shimmergloom667 said:

No, it is based on dozens of videos of LITENINGs, ATFLIRs, various civilian camera systems etc. performing in regular old athmospheric conditions.

 

Heatblur come close with their LANTIRN implementation that features quality loss in digital zoom (not present in either EDs LITENING or ATFLIR), sensor overexposure, DIS come close with thjeir implemenation of zoom and focus in the WMD7.

 

All that is lacking in EDs TGPs right now.

OK then, fingers crossed they will get it just right with the new tech.

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, Shimmergloom667 said:

 

Every FLIR we have in the game right now is overperforming. I hope they all get tuned down and get more realistic visuals with the upcoming FLIR rework.

 

As long as I get to keep my cool green high-tech Paveway-going-KABOOM! tv show on the MFD.

 

I want the money shot payoff for fiddlin' them fifty switches. 

[Weasel]

OK then, fingers crossed they will get it just right with the new tech.

The screenshot, posted in the AH-64 mini update thread ,which probably shows the new FLIR tech, looks very promising indeed

[Shimmergloom667]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

As long as I get to keep my cool green high-tech Paveway-going-KABOOM! tv show on the MFD.

 

I want the money shot payoff for fiddlin' them fifty switches. 

 

You certainly will, it should look like blurry green blobs more often than not, though, that suddenly go up in a bright green overexposure blob of fiery goodness.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Shimmergloom667

[Bananabrai]

From my RL TGP experience I would also say that the Harrier's Litening is overperforming. 
Not sure about the Hornet.

 

Well, FLIR is under rework anyway, so see you again when we talk about the new performance^^

[shagrat]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Shimmergloom667:

No, it is based on dozens of videos of LITENINGs, ATFLIRs, various civilian camera systems etc. performing in regular old athmospheric conditions.

 

Heatblur come close with their LANTIRN implementation that features quality loss in digital zoom (not present in either EDs LITENING or ATFLIR), sensor overexposure, DIS come close with thjeir implemenation of zoom and focus in the WMD7.

 

All that is lacking in EDs TGPs right now.

"Videos" with unknown resolution, contrast, brightness, filmed from screen or from the system, post processed or a capture from  direct feed... That's a lot of guesswork, to state "this is how it should look".

I prefer the ED approach instead of trying to imitate obscure videos we don't know what version, Software, upgrades etc. we are watching...

Mentioning the F-14 LANTIRN is a good basis, as it faithfully represents the oldest, low resolution analogue system with a low resolution IR sensor.

The Lightening pods and AT-FLIR are round about 10 to 20 years more advanced and upgraded from those first analogue systems developed in the 80ies and early 90ies.

My guess is EDs SMEs that actually looked at the real things are possibly a good source, that can provide better input than assumption.

Just my 2 cents. 

[Enduro14]

My eyes spend allot of time behind various pieces of glass, from first gen to modern as of 3 years ago.  Granted Groundstuff, and can say the picture that dcs provides right know is way way to good.  F14 Lantirn is certainly more inline to how the systems will look.  Here's hoping the new thermal engine will allow PID to be much more difficult just like it is in the Real....

 

What i always did since Blackshark days is set the mfd res to the lowest in settings and that would make it seem more of what i have seen on ground systems

[=Mac=]

Attached is two photos from just my cellphone looking out my balcony at the CN Tower in Toronto, 10 nmi distant. Of course, this is 2018 technology... But I remember back when Nikon put out a pretty good 35mm film camera in the early 1980's that could match my cellphone today in image magnification quality. Just wondering how realistic these DCS pods are.

[Shimmergloom667]

4 minutes ago, shagrat said:

"Videos" with unknown resolution, contrast, brightness, filmed from screen or from the system, post processed or a capture from  direct feed... That's a lot of guesswork, to state "this is how it should look".

I prefer the ED approach instead of trying to imitate obscure videos we don't know what version, Software, upgrades etc. we are watching...

Mentioning the F-14 LANTIRN is a good basis, as it faithfully represents the oldest, low resolution analogue system with a low resolution IR sensor.

The Lightening pods and AT-FLIR are round about 10 to 20 years more advanced and upgraded from those first analogue systems developed in the 80ies and early 90ies.

My guess is EDs SMEs that actually looked at the real things are possibly a good source, that can provide better input than assumption.

Just my 2 cents. 

 

While true in that DDIs that in turned have been filmed with an old GoPro at 720i aren't 100% faithful to real life: there is such a PLETHORA of older TGP videos available (as in: mid 2000s) that all show our ingame ones to be of too high clarity, without focus issues, without sensor exposure, without digital zoom quality loss that I kindly disagree. You are very true in that in the end ED have to decide what to make of all possible sources, including SME opinions of course.

3 minutes ago, Enduro14 said:

My eyes spend allot of time behind various pieces of glass, from first gen to modern as of 3 years ago.  Granted Groundstuff, and can say the picture that dcs provides right know is way way to good.  F14 Lantirn is certainly more inline to how the systems will look.  Here's hoping the new thermal engine will allow PID to be much more difficult just like it is in the Real....

 

What i always did since Blackshark days is set the mfd res to the lowest in settings and that would make it seem more of what i have seen on ground systems

 

I, too, have some experience with hi quality civilian stuff, made very recently no less - and that again leads me to say: our ingame renditions of optical systems are way too overperforming.

[shagrat]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Shimmergloom667:

 

You certainly will, it should look like blurry green blobs more often than not, though, that suddenly go up in a bright green overexposure blob of fiery goodness.

 

Depends if it is a modern FLIR like the ones that you can buy on Amazon that have a digital circuit measuring the input and automatically adjusting/dimming/filtering the signal, before it reaches the sensor. Then postprocessing software may compensate to optimize the actual video you see on the screen... Just saying. Depends on a lot of factors.

[Shimmergloom667]

1 minute ago, shagrat said:

Depends if it is a modern FLIR like the ones that you can buy on Amazon that have a digital circuit measuring the input and automatically adjusting/dimming/filtering the signal, before it reaches the sensor. Then postprocessing software may compensate to optimize the actual video you see on the screen... Just saying. Depends on a lot of factors.

 

It does depend on a lot of factors. But our ingame rendition suffers no quality loss at all. Literally none, as of yet. While we may disagree on the details, I kinda can't believe that doesnt strike you as odd.

[Enduro14]

yup Max zoom and no quality loss and no environmental effects on these systems is Hugely lacking.  Hope things get Sim'd better incorporation with the new Thermal engine.  Same thing with NVG's  hope its a core thing they are working to improve will add allot to the SIM

[shagrat]

By the way, another big factor is the environmental conditions. That's currently not modeled,but a huge influence on the real life images/Video.