Phantom FG.1 (F-4K)

[Cdodders]

I think the time is ripe for the British to get some fixed wing Carrier planes and that means the Phantom FG.1 would be almost required. It would have to come with the Ark Royal and that also could mean Buccaneers and Gannets, plus older planes like Sea Vixen could be made too.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

F-4K and US Navy F-4E/J used bridle launch, not launch bar of F-14 and F/A-18. So older angled deck UK carriers would be needed for authenticity. However F-4K did crossdeck with US Navy carriers during Cold War exercises.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Why is almost everybody enamored with F-4? Yes it is historical, and it served for a long time, and it was an important part of NATO battle plans to fight Soviets. But it is huge, heavy beast of an aircraft. Not particularly pretty. Or any pretty.

Vietnam, Israel 1973, Iraq/Iran War 1979-1989, Cold War 1.0, Gulf War 1.0, Syrian Civil War (Turkish F-4G reconnaissance variant )  shot down by SA-24 Greyhound near Syrian coastline.

Edited November 1, 2021 by DmitriKozlowsky

[Callsign112]

2 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Why is almost everybody enamored with F-4. Yes it is historical, and it served for a long time, and it was an important part of NATO battle plans to fight Soviets. But it is huge, heavy beast of an aircraft.

Vietnam, Israel 1973, Iraq/Iran War 1979-1989, Cold War 1.0, Gulf War 1.0, Syrian Civil War (Turkish F-4G reconnaissance)  shot down by S/A-24 Greyhound.

 

[Tank50us]

The issue with any F-4 being added is that there were so many variants of the blasted thing that the moment one does get added people will instantly demand one of the more obscure variants or one of the national variants gets added as well, and then moan when it doesn't behave like they expect it do.

Honestly, I say this: If you want an F-4, just take the F-4E and be happy. You can have it be carrier capable (not entirely realistic, since the Es were USAF only, but what the hey), and have an option to use the British Engine, but at this point.... there are so many variants of the F-4, that in order to make everyone happy, you're going to have to break reality. in order to please all the Phantom Phanatics

[joey45]

^^ this..

[sirrah]

7 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Not particularly pretty. Or any pretty.

 

Uh oh! Flak incoming! 

 

Fwiw, it's absolutely beautiful imho (there's no accounting for taste).

 

Quote

But it is huge, heavy beast of an aircraft

One of the reasons why I would purchase an F4 module

 

[rkk01]

I guess you’re all aware of this, then…

Somewhere to call “home”

 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

15 hours ago, Tank50us said:

The issue with any F-4 being added is that there were so many variants of the blasted thing that the moment one does get added people will instantly demand one of the more obscure variants or one of the national variants gets added as well, and then moan when it doesn't behave like they expect it do.

Honestly, I say this: If you want an F-4, just take the F-4E and be happy. You can have it be carrier capable (not entirely realistic, since the Es were USAF only, but what the hey), and have an option to use the British Engine, but at this point.... there are so many variants of the F-4, that in order to make everyone happy, you're going to have to break reality. in order to please all the Phantom Phanatics

I'd likely buy this module provided that it modeled latest & greatest US Navy and RNFAA carrier based variants. So F-4S for USN, S was shared between navy and Marines. F-4K (aka F-4J) for RNFAA. 

F-4E , land variant, shared between USAF, RAF, Israeli AF, NATO Allies, and past allies turned foes, Iran.

I speculate that DCS community will react more positively to carrier based variants of F-4 then E landlubber variant.

 

HMS Ark Royal angled deck looks sweet. Be careful what you wish for. People might start making their own old 1970's and 1980's BBC or Discovery Wings style fakeomentaries. Complete with grain, blur, resolution at 740X486 interlaced, and sound hickups.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I need a British RNFAA aficionado to explain British carriers like Ark Royal. Those ships had Air Wing composed of F-4K, Buccaneer, Gannet,Sea Vixen, and helicopters. How many of these could a ship carry. Figuring that they have to all fit into hangar deck, with alert 5 two ship on deck. These ships are small. F-4, Buccaneer, and SeaVixens were large aircraft.

US Nimitz class normally carries an 85 aircraft air wing. Up to 100 in case of emergency and friendliness of sailors. Ark Royal looks like it could be picked up and placed on top of flight deck of Nimitz class with room to spare.

Kuz aviation cruiser carries air wing of 18 SU-33 (27 Mig-29K), and 8 Helix helicopters.

That landing area on Ark Royal looks tiny. Even from A-4 cockpit  it looks tiny. US Essex class attack and ASW carriers of Mid Cold War were probably a little bigger. 

[joey45]

Hermes, Ark Royal, Invincible, Forrestal, Stennis

 

[Cdodders]

53 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I need a British RNFAA aficionado to explain British carriers like Ark Royal. Those ships had Air Wing composed of F-4K, Buccaneer, Gannet,Sea Vixen, and helicopters. How many of these could a ship carry. Figuring that they have to all fit into hangar deck, with alert 5 two ship on deck. These ships are small. F-4, Buccaneer, and SeaVixens were large aircraft.

US Nimitz class normally carries an 85 aircraft air wing. Up to 100 in case of emergency and friendliness of sailors. Ark Royal looks like it could be picked up and placed on top of flight deck of Nimitz class with room to spare.

Kuz aviation cruiser carries air wing of 18 SU-33 (27 Mig-29K), and 8 Helix helicopters.

That landing area on Ark Royal looks tiny. Even from A-4 cockpit  it looks tiny. US Essex class attack and ASW carriers of Mid Cold War were probably a little bigger. 

The Phantoms replaced the Sea Vixens. Her final air wing as per 1970-1978 was 14x Buccaneer S.2, 12x Phantom FG.1, 4x Gannet AEW.3, 1x Gannet COD, 7x Sea King HAS.2 ASW and 2x Wessex HAS.1 SAR

[rkk01]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I need a British RNFAA aficionado to explain British carriers like Ark Royal. Those ships had Air Wing composed of F-4K, Buccaneer, Gannet,Sea Vixen, and helicopters. How many of these could a ship carry. Figuring that they have to all fit into hangar deck, with alert 5 two ship on deck. These ships are small. F-4, Buccaneer, and SeaVixens were large aircraft.

US Nimitz class normally carries an 85 aircraft air wing. Up to 100 in case of emergency and friendliness of sailors. Ark Royal looks like it could be picked up and placed on top of flight deck of Nimitz class with room to spare.

Kuz aviation cruiser carries air wing of 18 SU-33 (27 Mig-29K), and 8 Helix helicopters.

That landing area on Ark Royal looks tiny. Even from A-4 cockpit  it looks tiny. US Essex class attack and ASW carriers of Mid Cold War were probably a little bigger. 

Skill,

Training…

Balls

 

According to Hansard, the FAA lost 220 aircraft between 1962 and 1971

Hazy on the details, but I think my aunt was dating a pilot who was killed in a cat accident, and fairly sure the father of one of my classmates suffered a similar fate

[DmitriKozlowsky]

1 hour ago, Cdodders said:

The Phantoms replaced the Sea Vixens. Her final air wing as per 1970-1978 was 14x Buccaneer S.2, 12x Phantom FG.1, 4x Gannet AEW.3, 1x Gannet COD, 7x Sea King HAS.2 ASW and 2x Wessex HAS.1 SAR

+1 aircraft sized shoehorn. By that I mean those cute yellow grimy, grungy, dirty, weathered-as-kfcu tractors sailors love to race around decks in.

RN emlisted sailors must be the congenial lot of men. To be stuffed into such small ships with 40+ aircraft and airwing personell.

[Cdodders]

8 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

+1 aircraft sized shoehorn. By that I mean those cute yellow grimy, grungy, dirty, weathered-as-kfcu tractors sailors love to race around decks in.

RN emlisted sailors must be the congenial lot of men. To be stuffed into such small ships with 40+ aircraft and airwing personell.

It had a double hangar which helped

But it did get a bit crowded

[DmitriKozlowsky]

OK. I guess the last photo  is the launch stations decking. F-4K X2 goes first to set up CAP over ship. Then Gannett AWACS. Then first batch of Bucks, being the in-flight fuel milk cows. Followed by F-4K escort. Last are the Buck strike units. Lets not forget the plane guard helo really would be the first to T/O.

That deck looks absolutely cold and miserable. Gotta be North Sea or North Atlantic GIUK gap. 

Where did the RNFAA train for this? They gotta have a shore based field with silhouettes of the flight deck, elevators, and hangar deck, for flight crews, handlers, and maintainers to  practice moving aircraft. USN , I believe, but not sure, has like three sites. Pensacola, Norfolk, and China Lake , to train handlers and plane captains, before moving onto to ship based training.

[Anditsgone_]

6 hours ago, joey45 said:

Hermes, Ark Royal, Invincible, Forrestal, Stennis

 

How did you manage to get the Ark Royal?

[rkk01]

34 minutes ago, Anditsgone_ said:

How did you manage to get the Ark Royal?

See eighth post above…

[Mike Force Team]

For those developers who are motivated, we urge you to create the F-4E Phantom.  Once it is created and vetted, many customers will be happy to buy it and fly missions.

[rkk01]

Has to be a carrier version…

 

[Mike Force Team]

Create it, vet it, and sell it!! Meaning the land-based and carrier-based versions for the F-4E.  People will buy it.

[Anditsgone_]

21 hours ago, rkk01 said:

See eighth post above…

I understand but how is it possible to get hold of the actual ship for dcs?

[Baco]

Really excited with all the new carriers on the way! THANSK SO MUCH!

By the way enjoying the HMS Melbourne so, so, so much!

[evanf117]

i just want pave tack F-4

[Northstar98]

+1 but personally I'd prefer post 1979 British Phantoms and Buccaneers (preferably into the 80s for the Buccaneer), by then they were both gone from RN service, but they were more capable and more fitting for DCS.

That said though, as it stands the best version for DCS IMO is a USAF F-4E circa 1988 (earlier F-4Es simply being a matter of using historical mode with the stores AFAIK), followed by an early 80s USN F-4S.