F-4E, please

[Mike Force Team]

ED, please create the F-4E.  Virtual pilots are highly, highly, highly likely to buy it.  Your company would recoup its costs for creating the F-4E very quickly.

[Gianky]

+ 1

Actually, we'd need at least an F-4B, F-4D, F-4E (from Vietnam to late cold war), an F-4J (or F-4S... but I lean towards the J) and an F-4G (even if EW is not the best aspect of DCS)... yeah, we need at least five!

Edited November 29, 2021 by Gianky

[Mike Force Team]

I agree that different versions of the F-4 add value and enjoyment to ED.  

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Gianky said:

+ 1

Actually, we'd need at least an F-4B, F-4D, F-4E (from Vietnam to late cold war), an F-4J (or F-4S... but I lean towards the J) and an F-4G (even if EW is not the best aspect of DCS)... yeah, we need at least five!

 

I agree we need as many variant as possible I'd add the British versions as well. The G would be great if we see an overhaul of EW

[Mike_Romeo]

A F-4 Phantom is already in development and will come "quite soon"
 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[Boosterdog]

18 minutes ago, Mike_Romeo said:

A F-4 Phantom is already in development and will come "quite soon"
 

 

 

"quite soon" - Have I missed something?

[Northstar98]

+1, a long requested aircraft.

My personal preference would be a USAF 3rd TFW F-4E covering the mid-to-late 70s to the late 80s/early 90s.

If we went for a late 80s aircraft it should be possible to approximate older variants by weapons restricting.

I'll copypasta my breakdown from information I've found so far (C:MO database) from this post down below:

Spoiler

USAF F-4E circa 1977:

Sensors:

• AN/APQ-120 RADAR
• AN/ASX-1 TISEO - 1st gen TV
• AN/APR-37 RWR

Internal Mounts/Stores/Weapons:

• M61 Vulcan with 640 rounds
• AN/ALE-40(V)1 (90 cartridges in 4 banks - 2 flare banks holding 15 MJU-7 flare cartridges each, 2 chaff banks holding 30 RR-170 A/AL chaff cartridges each)

Stores:

• 370 USG Drop Tank
• 600 USG Drop Tank
• AGM-65A Maverick [EO]
• AGM-65B Maverick [EO]
• AIM-7E-2/-3 Sparrow III
• AIM-9J Sidewinder
• AN/ALQ-119 DECM pod
• AN/AVQ-23 Pave Spike (1st gen. TV + 12k ft LTD/R)
• B43 (1 mt nuclear)
• B57 (20 kt nuclear)
• B61 (340 kt nuclear)
• BLU-27/B 750 lb Incendiary
• CBU-52/B CB [220 × BLU-61/B frag bomblets]
• CBU-71A/B CB [650 × BLU-86/B frag bomblets]
• GBU-10A/B Paveway I LGB [Mk84]
• GBU-12A/B Paveway I LGB [Mk82]
• GBU-8 HOBOS [Mk84]
• M117 750 lb GPB
• M117R 750 lb GPB?
• Mk20 Rockeye II CB [247 × Mk118 dual-purpose bomblets]
• Mk82 500 lb LDGP
• Mk82 500 lb Snake Eye
• Mk84 2000 lb LDGP

1981:

• AIM-9J replaced by AIM-9N/P
• GBU-10A/B Paveway I [Mk84] replaced with GBU-10E/B Paveway II [Mk84]
• GBU-12A/B Paveway I [Mk82] replaced with GBU-12D/B Paveway II [Mk82]

1984:

• AGM-65D Maverick added
• AN/AVQ-23 Pave Spike replaced with AN/AVQ-26 Pave Tack [1st gen FLIR (AN/AAQ-9) + 12k ft LTD/R] EDIT: Pave Spike was on select aircraft belonging to blocks 36 through to 45 and Pave Tack was on DMAS aircraft from blocks 48 to 62.
• GBU-8 HOBOS deleted
• GBU-15(V)1/B CWW [EO, Mk84] and accompanying AN/AXQ-14 DL pod added (3rd TFW aircraft)

1986:

• GBU-10J/B Paveway II [BLU-109/B] added
• GBU-15(V)2 CWW [IIR, Mk84] added (3rd TFW aircraft)
• GBU-15(V)31/B CWW [EO, BLU-109/B] added (3rd TFW aircraft)
• GBU-15(V)32/B CWW [IIR, BLU-109/B] added (3rd TFW aircraft)
• Mk82 AIR added?
• Mk84 AIR added?

1988-1990:

• CBU-87/B CB [202 × BLU-97/B CEM] added
• CBU-89/B GATOR CB [72 × BLU-91/B AT mines + 22 × BLU-92/B APERS mines] added

Also:

Edited January 28, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting, corrected information

[WinterH]

A very loud YES. F-4E is essential in DCS. Other variants would be cool to get, but without E itself, an F-4 module is pointless as far as I'm concerned.

[MAXsenna]

"quite soon" - Have I missed something?

Might be a mixup between Corsairs and Phantoms?
There was a lengthy discussion a little while back, on how to spell "effour".
Quite a few airframes with that designation.
(Probably adds to the confusion that two Corsairs are in the works as well. I for sure get confused a lot lately).
Anyway, I haven't seen anywhere that the Phantom is close to release.
Hope I'm wrong though!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Mike_Romeo]

41 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Might be a mixup between Corsairs and Phantoms?
There was a lengthy discussion a little while back, on how to spell "effour".

And you do indeed clearly hear the word Phantom
 

 

[MAXsenna]

And you do indeed clearly hear the word Phantom
 
 

Thank you! I remember this now, and "your quite soon" quotes went passed me. Sorry!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Mike Force Team]

Virtual pilots, which includes me, are rejoicing.  We can use the F-4 in the Syrian Map or in the Persian Gulf Map.  Which, in my mind, leads to another question.  Does the mentioning of the F-4E "coming soon" mean that a Viet Nam Map is also being released?  Enquiring minds want to know.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

There's been no indication of that. Furthermore, the F-4E we're supposed to be getting is a post Vietnam bird, much like our MiG-21. All signs point to not yet. 

[Mike Force Team]

Mumbling to myself at no information or indication of Viet Nam map.  Ok.  Moving forward, the F-4E can be used for the Syria Map and the Persian Gulf Map.  At the same time, I wonder if the F-4E could be used in the South Atlantic Map when it is available.

[upyr1]

34 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

There's been no indication of that. Furthermore, the F-4E we're supposed to be getting is a post Vietnam bird, much like our MiG-21. All signs point to not yet. 

I hope we also get a J or S as well. 

[Boosterdog]

I did try to watch the video but the subtitles are so bizarre as to make it meaningless. However I did sit up when the subtitles said “ when you speak to a friend who is using your Mrs”. 

The first reference to "phantom" appears to relate the historical/political problems of extending the Caucauses map to include Ukraine and seems more to mean ghosts of the past than a reference to an aircraft.  There is some fleeting and vague reference "phantom" again a short time later but its not at all clear  in what context before conversation instantly returns to the Apache.

I remain unconvinced that anything is even approaching “quite soon” at least as far an a non developer understands the concept of time. Im not even convinced its a reference to an aircraft despite the video section tag but Im equally happy to conceed that it could be one mentioned in passing. 

the absence of any hype train elsewhere is also notable. 
 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Boosterdog

[WinterH]

Post Vietnam F-4 is the better choice anyway, it just fits with everything else in DCS better, and frankly, it is more interesting to fly anyway. At least so without a proper Vietnam environment which is not anywhere near on the horizon.

The F-4E is a pretty good fit to many maps already, obviosuly USAF used it, but if we look at:

- Caucasus: we have Turkey, and potentially USAF.

- Syria map, Turkey, and through Cyprus potentially Greece, and obviously also Israel. Also USAF again.

- Marianas, Japan had F-4EJ which, at least in am 80s, 90s kinda scenario isn't terribly different from later block F-4Es as far as I know. Again, also potentially USAF.

- Persian Gulf: Iran, and if we feel like, we can say "Egypt joins the conflict and has a base on X airbase" we can include them in both of our Middle Eastern maps.

- Nevada, well, USAF.

My prediction is, "F-4 by a 3rd party, soon enough" hinted in ED interview most likely be Heatblur's currently unannounced module on their Trello roadmap, and it will most likely and most sadly be a naval variant  I really hope they will at least consider making it late block E + any naval variant. If my prediction of Heatblur's mystery module being F-4 is true, it is supposed to see a release before both Eurofighter and A-6, but everything is subject to change etc.

Otherwise, possibilities seem limited, like perhaps a new yet to be announced 3rd party developer for DCS, or perhaps Razbam having an unannounced Phantom under their sleeves, or Deka throwing a  curveball and making one, or even Leatherneck having it planned etc. All other 3rd party devs seem to pretty well occupied, to be honest some of the ones I have listed also are. I still say Heatblur is the most likely scenario.

Regardless though, we are not likely to see an F-4 before 1.5-2 years in our DCS hangars sadly, and even then, it is not clear whether it will be an E variant or not. Oh how I wish Belsimtek's greatly chosen variant was continued to be developed...

I would like to say one thing though, even though my preferred variant obviously is E, I really do believe there is no way to do F-4 justice and to not have a pitchfork mob without doing at least 2 very different variants: F-4E and either F-4J or S.

[upyr1]

5 hours ago, WinterH said:

My prediction is, "F-4 by a 3rd party, soon enough" hinted in ED interview most likely be Heatblur's currently unannounced module on their Trello roadmap, and it will most likely and most sadly be a naval variant  I really hope they will at least consider making it late block E + any naval variant. If my prediction of Heatblur's mystery module being F-4 is true, it is supposed to see a release before both Eurofighter and A-6, but everything is subject to change etc.

I just couldn't see that happening. I just don't see anything less than two variants. The E was the most widely used version and being a joint fighter, there will need to be a Naval version. Though our British friends will be upset if we don't get at least one of their variants. The F-4 is the ideal plane to introduce a variant pricing model.  Some versions of the F-4 are quite close such as the B and C. the fact you could fly from the rear seat I believe was the biggest difference with the C. Then we have the E and J which are very differnt. I'm not sure what blocks of the E and J we should get but they should be a version that could pass for a Phantom from the Linebacker era. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by upyr1

[joey45]

We did get a handful of the J variants in the early 80s.

[Mike Force Team]

Whatever version of the F-4E (or other variant), I am certain that virtual pilots will enjoy it.  If many people contact the developer through the forum, then they might be inspired to create additional variants of the F-4.

[upyr1]

12 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

Whatever version of the F-4E (or other variant), I am certain that virtual pilots will enjoy it.  If many people contact the developer through the forum, then they might be inspired to create additional variants of the F-4.

Now we need to figure out who the developer is and what variant(s) they are doing. I remember at one point in some interview some Eagle higher up said they were doing F-4 everything.  

[Tank50us]

39 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

Now we need to figure out who the developer is and what variant(s) they are doing. I remember at one point in some interview some Eagle higher up said they were doing F-4 everything.  

Honestly, the most logical group to tackle it, is Heatblur. After all, the RIO in a Phantom isn't that much different from a RIO in a Tomcat, so just about all of Jesters abilities (minus the LANTIRN) abilities) can be ported over to a Phantom.

[upyr1]

5 hours ago, Tank50us said:

Honestly, the most logical group to tackle it, is Heatblur. After all, the RIO in a Phantom isn't that much different from a RIO in a Tomcat, so just about all of Jesters abilities (minus the LANTIRN) abilities) can be ported over to a Phantom.

If they are  doing the d an e the lantern would port over as well. The D and E were the first USAF fighters to pack laser guided bombs and maverick missiles. The targeting pods weren't infrared like the lantern.

[Northstar98]

On 12/3/2021 at 8:20 PM, upyr1 said:

If they are  doing the d an e the lantern would port over as well. The D and E were the first USAF fighters to pack laser guided bombs and maverick missiles. The targeting pods weren't infrared like the lantern.

AN/AVQ-10 Pave Knife and AN/AVQ-22 Pave Spike were both 1st generation TV + 12k ft LTD/R.

But from the early 80s there was also the AN/AVQ-26 Pave Tack which is 1st generation FLIR + 12k ft LTD/R.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Northstar98

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 12/2/2021 at 9:38 AM, upyr1 said:

I just couldn't see that happening. I just don't see anything less than two variants. The E was the most widely used version and being a joint fighter, there will need to be a Naval version. Though our British friends will be upset if we don't get at least one of their variants. The F-4 is the ideal plane to introduce a variant pricing model.  Some versions of the F-4 are quite close such as the B and C. the fact you could fly from the rear seat I believe was the biggest difference with the C. Then we have the E and J which are very differnt. I'm not sure what blocks of the E and J we should get but they should be a version that could pass for a Phantom from the Linebacker era. 

 

That would be opening up Pandora's box. In the end, does it really matter? Everyone will make-do anyways and we'll see RAF markings on an F-4E.

The Spanish, the Finns, the Kuwaitis, and the Aussies didn't get their variant of the Hornet. The MiG-21 we got is Serbian. The Viper is a veritable Pokedex of marks and upgrades with export customers and even domestic use. Even the F-5E we got is a specific F-5 that really isn't a combat aircraft and more of DACT bird without the combat capability of other F-5s.

Teams have a hard enough time supporting modules. ED has basically forgotten that the F-5, F-86, and MiG-15 exist. The last thing they need is more workload. PilotMi8 put it best when asked about the UH-1N as an upgrade to the UH-1H and that just because airframes are variants of the same family doesn't necessarily translate into a simple development.

Edited December 3, 2021 by MiG21bisFishbedL