What actually is DTOS mode in the F16?

[Rhinozherous]

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT ASKING FOR ANY RELEASE DATES OR SOMETHING. 

I just didnt found that much on the Internet on what DTOS is in the F16... Is it something like CCIP or CCRP or both? Or just used for bomb tossing? 

Thank you! 

[Frederf]

Direct Targeting Optical Sight. Dive toss. It's really, really, really similar to "EO VIS" mode of the Maverick. I would say that EO VIS is really "DTOS for Maverick" but same difference. If you've ever used the TDC in the A-10C and then attacked CCRP, similar to that too but more streamlined. There's a box that starts on the FPM, you can slew it first, designate it on the ground with TMS forward or weapon release, can slew it on the ground after if you want, and it's CCRP type aiming through the rest of the attack. In the visual/preplanned split it counts as visual (FCR will be AGR).

It can be handy to toss with, especially CBUs but it's just a sort of "visually-designated CCRP". CCIP can do that too with the delay cue stuff but you'd have to fly the pipper on where with DTOS you have a bit more flexibility putting the box places with the cursor switch.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Frederf

[Rhinozherous]

2 hours ago, Frederf said:

Direct Targeting Optical Sight. It's really, really, really similar to "EO VIS" mode of the Maverick. I would say that EO VIS is really "DTOS for Maverick" but same difference. If you've ever used the TDC in the A-10C and then attacked CCRP, similar to that too but more streamlined. There's a box that starts on the FPM, you can slew it first, designate it on the ground with TMS forward or weapon release, can slew it on the ground after if you want, and it's CCRP type aiming through the rest of the attack. In the visual/preplanned split it counts as visual (FCR will be AGR).

It can be handy to toss with, especially CBUs but it's just a sort of "visually-designated CCRP". CCIP can do that too with the delay cue stuff but you'd have to fly the pipper on where with DTOS you have a bit more flexibility putting the box places with the cursor switch.

 

Thank you very much, this clears things up!

[FoxOne007]

4 hours ago, Frederf said:

Direct Targeting Optical Sight. It's really, really, really similar to "EO VIS" mode of the Maverick. I would say that EO VIS is really "DTOS for Maverick" but same difference. If you've ever used the TDC in the A-10C and then attacked CCRP, similar to that too but more streamlined. There's a box that starts on the FPM, you can slew it first, designate it on the ground with TMS forward or weapon release, can slew it on the ground after if you want, and it's CCRP type aiming through the rest of the attack. In the visual/preplanned split it counts as visual (FCR will be AGR).

It can be handy to toss with, especially CBUs but it's just a sort of "visually-designated CCRP". CCIP can do that too with the delay cue stuff but you'd have to fly the pipper on where with DTOS you have a bit more flexibility putting the box places with the cursor switch.

 

And here’s me thinking it meant Dive/Toss for some reason . Thanks for the explanation 

Edited December 26, 2021 by FoxOne007

[Wawar]

IIUC, the DTOS mode fills the void between CCRP and CCIP.
In the Viper, the CCRP doesn't do any precise slant range calculation. It just means "shoot on coordinates". So, slewing your TD BOX in the HUD (or the HMCS) from a CCRP designation, to a target, will not calculate a precise slant range.

In CCIP, the plane switches the FCR to the AGR mode, in order to obtain the precise range between your plane and the target and provide the better accuracy possible for the ordnance. 

In DTOS, the plane does the same thing, but from that mode you're able to designate the target with a TD Box in the HUD. The point is to be able to do a "CCRP" drop but with more precision. 

I suppose that's why the Viper is not supposed to be able to create a markpoint from the HMCS in CCRP, since the plane doesn't compute any precise slant range in CCRP, and the system doesn't like to establish a mark without a precise slant range.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Wawar

[Crptalk]

34 minutes ago, Wawar said:

I suppose that's why the Viper is not supposed to be able to create a markpoint from the HMCS in CCRP, since the plane doesn't compute any precise slant range in CCRP, and the system doesn't like to establish a mark without a precise slant range.

 

Of course it can create a HUD/HMCS markpoint from CCRP. It commands radar to AGR. When more than 60 degrees off boresight it can use tgp laser to get slant range. I'm not 100% sure but it might be able to use DTS passive ranging as well.

[Wawar]

5 minutes ago, Crptalk said:

Of course it can create a HUD/HMCS markpoint from CCRP. It commands radar to AGR. When more than 60 degrees off boresight it can use tgp laser to get slant range. I'm not 100% sure but it might be able to use DTS passive ranging as well.

According to the team (and so SME I suppose), it can't : 

 

[Crptalk]

10 minutes ago, Wawar said:

According to the team (and so SME I suppose), it can't : 

 

Yeah I read that thread and it reads like everyone is confused and is discussing something slightly different. I wouldn't read too much into it, HMCS marks will be fixed eventually. The plane isn't correctly blanking A-G weapon symbology and switching to AGR when first entering HUD Mark, however sequencing through the markpoint types fixes it. FCR markpoints are also broken but no one has reported it yet.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Crptalk

[darkman222]

Is DTOS fully functional now? I did not see it mentioned in the updates. I cant play DCS until next year. So I am not able to test it.

[Bunny Clark]

31 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

Is DTOS fully functional now? I did not see it mentioned in the updates. I cant play DCS until next year. So I am not able to test it.

It is not yet implemented. 

[itn]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:32 PM, Frederf said:

Direct Targeting Optical Sight

In many of the widely available manuals it's simply DTOS for Dive Toss. Do they actually call it DTOS for "Direct Targeting Optical Sight" in the variant modelled in DCS?

[Frederf]

You know I could be mixing it up with something else. I will check. Whatever it is it has been the same for F-16s that have it.

[AvroLanc]

Pretty sure it’s just ‘Dive Toss’. But I like the alternative suggestion, but it sounds like it should belong on 50’s era SAC bomber. 

[Frederf]

I think that's what something is called on the AV-8B. Yes, it's dive toss. Despite the name DTOS has uses beyond dive-toss type deliveries.

[NineLine]

In all documentation for our Viper version, it is short for Dive Toss. Thanks.

[falconbr]

 

Best regards,

falconbr

Edited December 28, 2021 by falconbr