Patch notes discussion thread 2022

[scommander2]

Go back to check the change log: 

DCS 2.7.18.30348 Open Beta (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

It did not mention any change about "Enter+Alt" (at least, I did not see it).  If it is a case, it is a defect to me.

 

[Hiob]

10 hours ago, scommander2 said:

Thanks for the respone and testing it for me.

My No 1 monitor is at laptop and it is the default monitor, and my No 2 monitor is the external monitor.  I was used to run my DCS on my No 2 monitor with "Enter+Alt" to make it as full-screen.

I did test "Enter+Alt" on No 1 monitor and it is no longer to make full-screen also

 

 

Ok, some interesting(?!) results. When I run DCS (as I usually do) in the native windows resolution (and physical resolution of my display) @3840*2160, it behaves like this:
Whenever DCS is the active application (mouse click into it), it will enter an exclusive fullscreen. The only difference the "fullscreen" option in the settings makes is its behaviour when alt-tabbing out of it. Fullscreen ticked, it will minimize to the taskbar, unticked, it will stay up but as a windows. Nevertheless, the moment I click on it (or in it) it will revert to fullscreen again. Works perfectly for me and performance is flawless, too. However, I'm unable to direct it to my secondary screen. (Which is only 1080p anyway.)

Now comes the problem(?). When I set the DCS resolution to 1920*1080 and untick fullscreen, it will open in a window (not a borderless one, a real window). I can drag it whereever I want, including my secondary screen. BUT I can't maximize it on either screen. Performance seems good though.

When I tick "fullscreen" DCS will open maximized and borderless - however I can't tell if it is exclusive fullscreen, since G-sync won't engage (which indicates, that it's not) and I'm unable to redirect it to my secondary screen too.

I don't really know what to conclude from this behaviour

======================================================

You should try the suggestion of draconus. DCS seems to prefer the No1 screen and native resolution. Other than that, I have no idea atm.

 

[MadMonty]

I used Alt-Enter not for performance reasons, but to keep my mouse cursor always in the active (DCS) window. I fly VR and in windowed mode it always happens that when I click the mouse cursor at the edge of the window, another window is activated and DCS gives me the message that the DCS window is no longer active. Therefore, Alt-Enter is indispensable for me to fly in VR.

[Hiob]

2 minutes ago, MadMonty said:

I used Alt-Enter not for performance reasons, but to keep my mouse cursor always in the active (DCS) window. I fly VR and in windowed mode it always happens that when I click the mouse cursor at the edge of the window, another window is activated and DCS gives me the message that the DCS window is no longer active. Therefore, Alt-Enter is indispensable for me to fly in VR.

The VR-option to use system resolution doesn't work for you? On my system it maximizes the VR mirror to fullscreen.

[BIGNEWY]

21 minutes ago, MadMonty said:

I used Alt-Enter not for performance reasons, but to keep my mouse cursor always in the active (DCS) window. I fly VR and in windowed mode it always happens that when I click the mouse cursor at the edge of the window, another window is activated and DCS gives me the message that the DCS window is no longer active. Therefore, Alt-Enter is indispensable for me to fly in VR.

Note there is two options for keeping cursor confined to window, one is in the main settings in dcs and the other is in the vr tab in dcs for when vr is in use for the vr mirror on the desktop. 

if you want to use full screen in vr, tick use dcs resolution in the vr tab, and ensure the resolution in the main dcs settings is the same as your desktop resolution and tick fullscreen in the options. 

hope it helps

[imacken]

4 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

and ensure the resolution in the main dcs settings is the same as your desktop resolution and tick fullscreen in the options. 

Yes, that is really important. Doesn't work without setting the resolution to same as desktop. That caught me out for a long time!

[MadMonty]

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Note there is two options for keeping cursor confined to window, one is in the main settings in dcs and the other is in the vr tab in dcs for when vr is in use for the vr mirror on the desktop. 

if you want to use full screen in vr, tick use dcs resolution in the vr tab, and ensure the resolution in the main dcs settings is the same as your desktop resolution and tick fullscreen in the options. 

hope it helps

Thank you very much! Maybe I was too quick with my worry and Alt-Enter still works for me, I'll try that out now. I had interpreted the posts in such a way that it apparently no longer works per se, but then my VR settings seems to be unaffected...

[scommander2]

3 minutes ago, MadMonty said:

Thank you very much! Maybe I was too quick with my worry and Alt-Enter still works for me, I'll try that out now. I had interpreted the posts in such a way that it apparently no longer works per se, but then my VR settings seems to be unaffected...

@MadMontyA quick question: have you upgraded your DCS yet?  My "Enter+Alt" is no longer to work now.  Thanks,

Edited October 6, 2022 by scommander2

[MadMonty]

3 hours ago, scommander2 said:

@MadMontyA quick question: have you upgraded your DCS yet?  My "Enter+Alt" is no longer to work now.  Thanks,

 

Just tested latest beta=stable-version and I can confirm, that alt-enter is not working.

On the other hand, the mouse cursor now seems to have fixed limits (which are slightly inside the DCS window), so that it is no longer possible for me to accidentally leave the window in border areas. Thus, unintentional window switching seems to be at least ruled out, but fullscreen is not possible.

[dburne]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:01 AM, imacken said:

Yes, that is really important. Doesn't work without setting the resolution to same as desktop. That caught me out for a long time!

Does not work for me either way. I have gone in and recalibrated my POINT CTRL for windowed mode now and finally got that set up.

But definitely a PITB for VR users.

[imacken]

7 minutes ago, dburne said:

Does not work for me either way. I have gone in and recalibrated my POINT CTRL for windowed mode now and finally got that set up.

But definitely a PITB for VR users.

Sorry Don, we were talking there about mouse movement option, not the full screen discussion. 

[MadMonty]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:56 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Note there is two options for keeping cursor confined to window, one is in the main settings in dcs and the other is in the vr tab in dcs for when vr is in use for the vr mirror on the desktop. 

if you want to use full screen in vr, tick use dcs resolution in the vr tab, and ensure the resolution in the main dcs settings is the same as your desktop resolution and tick fullscreen in the options. 

hope it helps

I have to correct myself. If everything is setup according to Bignewy (and after restarting DCS - haven´t done it for the first time), my monitor is automatically in full screen playing DCS in VR. Even though I cannot quit full screen with alt+enter anymore, i am very happy how it is...

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

When shall we expect the next OB patch?

[imacken]

 

[twistking]

@BIGNEWY can we get a new newsletter thread, please? Need to vent my joy about weather and tone-mapping improvments.

[BIGNEWY]

7 minutes ago, twistking said:

@BIGNEWY can we get a new newsletter thread, please? Need to vent my joy about weather and tone-mapping improvments.

done

 

[shagrat]

Am 5.10.2022 um 21:27 schrieb scommander2:

Thanks and it is not the best option.

If ED provides the feature "Enter+Alt" before, and can ED keep this feature?

 

I am running on DCS on my laptop and DCS will be on the external monitor.  So, two separate monitors are actually.

 

As posted before: Alt+Enter is a core feature of Microsoft Windows, not DCS!

It was never a DCS feature. It was a "trick/workaround" to beat Windows into submission to re-focus the DCS window/force fullscreen, if the window management "thought" another process was in focus...

[dburne]

25 minutes ago, shagrat said:

As posted before: Alt+Enter is a core feature of Microsoft Windows, not DCS!

It was never a DCS feature. It was a "trick/workaround" to beat Windows into submission to re-focus the DCS window/force fullscreen, if the window management "thought" another process was in focus...

 

Kind of strange how it suddenly stopped working directly after the DCS update. I guess these coincidences happen.

[scommander2]

41 minutes ago, shagrat said:

As posted before: Alt+Enter is a core feature of Microsoft Windows, not DCS!

It was never a DCS feature. It was a "trick/workaround" to beat Windows into submission to re-focus the DCS window/force fullscreen, if the window management "thought" another process was in focus...

Yes, I am 100% agree with that it is a windows feature.

However, the application may ignore  the "Alt+Enter" event to allow Windows performs the default behavior, or the application can catch the event to do something and overrie the default beahavior for the application self handling... I think.... 

 

[shagrat]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb dburne:

 

Kind of strange how it suddenly stopped working directly after the DCS update. I guess these coincidences happen.

The real question is, what on the affected systems (still) prevents DCS to be the application "in focus" / executed in full screen? I mean Alt+Enter actually did(!) force the re-focus. With EDs changes this should be enforced, anyway. What process / window is interfering, is the question. I had to use this workaround myself, in the past (not always, but with multiple apps like Jetseat, Streamdeck, TacView, etc. running in parallel I could never really figure what exactly caused it, or why it was "intermittent". Since a while it does no longer happen on my system, so it's difficult to help in analyzing. What I was very aware with this "trick" is, that it is not a DCS feature of some kind, but a feature of the Windows Operating System.

That's why I wanted to point out, it is unlikely ED will "fix" it, as they did not "remove it". We need to find the root cause, not hope for ED to move backwards... especially with 2.8 around the corner.

[MAXsenna]

The real question is, what on the affected systems (still) prevents DCS to be the application "in focus" / executed in full screen? I mean Alt+Enter actually did(!) force the re-focus. With EDs changes this should be enforced, anyway. What process / window is interfering, is the question. I had to use this workaround myself, in the past (not always, but with multiple apps like Jetseat, Streamdeck, TacView, etc. running in parallel I could never really figure what exactly caused it, or why it was "intermittent". Since a while it does no longer happen on my system, so it's difficult to help in analyzing. What I was very aware with this "trick" is, that it is not a DCS feature of some kind, but a feature of the Windows Operating System.
That's why I wanted to point out, it is unlikely ED will "fix" it, as they did not "remove it". We need to find the root cause, not hope for ED to move backwards... especially with 2.8 around the corner.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But I don't think "focus" is the correct expression. At not least in my experience. I've always used it for maximising, though, it gets focus as well, but it should already have that or the key combo would maximise the current window in focus. I primarily used it to maximise console windows back in the days, and some games. One could of course argue that those apps/games ran in a console window. Which some did.
For me personally I never saw any FPS gain, and my issues started when DCS started minimising when clicking on other apps in another screen.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/alt-enter-switches-between-window-and-full-screen-d1b23daa-644d-3fbf-2f5e-c2c779584db5





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[dburne]

3 hours ago, shagrat said:

The real question is, what on the affected systems (still) prevents DCS to be the application "in focus" / executed in full screen? I mean Alt+Enter actually did(!) force the re-focus. With EDs changes this should be enforced, anyway. What process / window is interfering, is the question. I had to use this workaround myself, in the past (not always, but with multiple apps like Jetseat, Streamdeck, TacView, etc. running in parallel I could never really figure what exactly caused it, or why it was "intermittent". Since a while it does no longer happen on my system, so it's difficult to help in analyzing. What I was very aware with this "trick" is, that it is not a DCS feature of some kind, but a feature of the Windows Operating System.

That's why I wanted to point out, it is unlikely ED will "fix" it, as they did not "remove it". We need to find the root cause, not hope for ED to move backwards... especially with 2.8 around the corner.

 

On my setup it is running in VR, never can get a true full screen on the monitor any longer since the DCS update. I had to go back in and re-setup and re-calibrate my Point CTRL system in order to allow for this as it had previously been done with true full screen so all the tracking in Point CTRL was now off.

I am ok now just was a bit of a PITB to have to do this after the DCS update when this occurred.  I understand now the alt-enter was a Windows function however I maintain that something in the DCS update caused it to no longer work. Perhaps it is only not working for folks using VR I don't know. 

[shagrat]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb MAXsenna:

I'm not saying you're wrong. But I don't think "focus" is the correct expression. At not least in my experience. I've always used it for maximising, though, it gets focus as well, but it should already have that or the key combo would maximise the current window in focus. I primarily used it to maximise console windows back in the days, and some games. One could of course argue that those apps/games ran in a console window. Which some did.
For me personally I never saw any FPS gain, and my issues started when DCS started minimising when clicking on other apps in another screen.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/alt-enter-switches-between-window-and-full-screen-d1b23daa-644d-3fbf-2f5e-c2c779584db5





Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

I explained that before. If you run an application in a Window (either intentionally with Alt+Tab switching for example or unintentionally, the window is run as borderless and on top, but another process window still is the top process), depending on single monitor vs. Multi-Monitor/extended screen, the result differs.

Originally (as in the MS support post) it is intended to give the current window focus and execute it in "fullscreen". This works, with a single screen, as intended.

With an extended desktop (virtual screen spanning multiple physical monitors), it will not be able to enforce "fullscreen", but a side-effect/trick/hack was, that the borderless DCS simulation window, still was popped to the "foreground" and got the "focus" aka the application that gets all the requested Ressources, if available until further notice.

This little "hack" is not the intention of Alt+Enter, but a side-effect that helped to tell Windows resource mgmt what to prioritize... At least that is the best I can do to explain, what happened for me.

If there is a Developer out there with access to the Windows source code that can look up what in detail Alt+Enter is doing and share some more insigt, that would be cool.

To my knowledge, the only option for game/sim/software developers to manage fullscreen, window size and appearance is requesting it from the windows ressource management (simplified:  I am a game and need to be run in X/Y resolution, should execute on top of other applications/windows and need priority access to ressources).

If the windows ressource mgmt messes up, you need to correct it, manually.

Edited October 19, 2022 by shagrat

[shagrat]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb dburne:

 

On my setup it is running in VR, never can get a true full screen on the monitor any longer since the DCS update. I had to go back in and re-setup and re-calibrate my Point CTRL system in order to allow for this as it had previously been done with true full screen so all the tracking in Point CTRL was now off.

I am ok now just was a bit of a PITB to have to do this after the DCS update when this occurred.  I understand now the alt-enter was a Windows function however I maintain that something in the DCS update caused it to no longer work. Perhaps it is only not working for folks using VR I don't know. 

The thing with VR is, you have two separate render processes. One through the VR platform (SteamVR, OpenXR, WMR etc.) and a "mirrored screen buffer"( sorry I don't know if the term is correct, but the part of the VR render that shows on the 2D screen), which is sent to a "window" on the Desktop.

So the Windows commands apply to the window on the monitor, but I am pretty sure the DCS Window in VR is rendered through the VR platform?

[scommander2]

Since the change log from the 30348 Open Beta, there was no entry about why "Alt+Enter" was removed.

According to my ED ticket and ED support team responds:

Quote

This feature has been removed to improve the performance of DCS World.

I thought that ED removed it because of VR, and I guess not....