How do you kill Mi-8?

[Taz1004]

I'm doing this campaign mission where I have to kill 4 Mi-8 and I can't get a lock in any ACM mode unless they're right up in my face.  He's doing it in F-14 but similar to what GR is experiencing below.

So how do you kill them?

[razo+r]

Use the guncross to snipe their tail

[unlikely_spider]

Yeah, helicopters are tough to radar lock. Not sure how realistic that is. But you can still get sidewinders to IR lock them. Or as mentioned above just shoot them with guns.

[Preendog]

You can lock if you go to a lower altitude than them (terrain shape doesn't matter AFAIK, just altitude). 

Also, visual aimed amraams still work. 

[Taz1004]

19 minutes ago, Preendog said:

Also, visual aimed amraams still work. 

Thanks, already tried that at 10nm and didn't work.  Will try closer.

Approaching from their rear seems to get better at locking only to be defeated by flares.

[razo+r]

Helicopters in DCS easily defeat missiles, especially heaters. 

Bullets on the other hand, they cannot really defeat those. 

[rob10]

I believe (unless it's been changed recently) the problem you're encountering is that DCS radar can't lock a contact at below a certain speed (100 kts comes to mind, but I could be off on that).  I know at least a few missions in paid campaigns were adjusted because of that.  Don't think it's necessarily realistic, but it's current reality in DCS.

[pete_auau]

Unless  this  bug has been  fixed  your unable  to lock  on a helo  under  90  knots,  they have  to be flying  faster  than  90   but  not  sure  about the  speed  though  although  close  to the ball park

[Diesel_Thunder]

I was wondering about this as I have near the exact same issue, but with the Mi-26 in one of my practice missions. I’ll set it faster in the ME next time I fly.

 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

It would be nice to see that fixed at some point yes, since I'm pretty sure rotor blades spin faster than 100 knots...
However much I dislike being on the receiving end in that case  

[Bunny Clark]

4 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

I'm doing this campaign mission where I have to kill 4 Mi-8

I may know which campaign you're playing. That definitely got a lot harder when the radar started having a hard time locking them up.

Sidewinders will still lock fine without a radar lock, just point and uncage. I've found if you fire from right behind them they don't deploy flares, presumably because the pilot can't see you launch the missile. Otherwise, the gun works best. Here you have a choice, you can start from up high and roll in on them like you're strafing a ground target, or you can try to fly low and hit them from the side. I find it easier to line up a gunshot from down low, but it's riskier.

[FrostLaufeyson]

This is the problem that has been bothering me for a long time

First, as long as the targets are moving slowly enough, as the person above said, the radar won't be able to sense them. (But many people say that helicopters should have a large RCS and thus be very easy to detect.)

Second, the AIM-9 is easily jammed by flares, I wouldn't even dare to launch the AIM-9 from a location 1 nautical mile away. If the data link shows the location of the helicopter, then you can use the AIM120's Mad Dog mode to hit, but it's also easy to hit allies. (I've been accidentally killed by my teammates several times because of this)

Third, it is really dangerous to approach a helicopter when it has the ability to fight back. You can fly at very low altitude, and then you will find a black spot in the sky. But at the same time, they can easily beat you at such a low altitude.

Finally, whenever I ask people how to kill helicopters, they tell me that's not what the F18 is supposed to do.

 

I have tried using AGM-65E, AGM -65L and GBU-12 with radar in GMT mode, plus TGP lock and attack helicopter.

For the AGM-65E, I'm not sure if the laser was right on the helicopter, or if the Maverick's maneuverability was a problem, as I've also had a few misses.

For the AGM-65F, it can't lock the helicopter at all, I'm not sure if it's the game or it's real. Its reticle will be unlocked after 1 second of closing.

For the GBU-12, if the helicopter is slow and low enough, this odd method can be tried.

But you have to know that after the radar GMT mode locks on the target, the TGP will look at the ground below the helicopter, not the helicopter. So this method is also inefficient, but you can try it out.

[Bunny Clark]

4 hours ago, FrostLaufeyson said:

(But many people say that helicopters should have a large RCS and thus be very easy to detect.)

Helicopters are weird. 

Many people think that because they have a large spinning disk that they will show up very easily on a Doppler radar, but reality is a lot more complex than that. The doppler signature of a rotor disk is partly moving at the radar, part moving away from the radar, and part moving laterally from the radar. The radar will see individual rotor blades, which are rapidly changing doppler signature and aspect. And the body of the aircraft has a radar return as well, which is totally different than the rotors, and the two will interact dynamically as the rotor disk and helicopter moves. 

Pulse doppler radars work by trying to solve a complex math equation on every returned hit to see if it fits into a known set of variables for doppler shift, speed, and range, relative to the frequencies the radar has transmitted. This problem is easiest to solve for targets with a single high-closure doppler shift, the more confusing the doppler returns off the aircraft the more difficult it is for the radar to figure out what its looking at. Older radar sets had a very hard time with this, modern digital ones are capable of recognizing the unique return of a helicopter and have a better chance of picking them out of the clutter, but it's still not easy. 

[Padonis]

I cannot lock the target at low altitude in any way.

 

[Padonis]

In total, I made several raids from different sides on the Mi-8, trying to target it with the radar and shoot it down with the Vulcan. Unfortunately, the helicopter is completely invisible to the radar in any operating mode.

 

[Diesel_Thunder]

I tested this in the F-14 and could not pick up helos on any Pulse Doppler mode (PD Search, RWS, or TWS). However I was able to see them and lock them easily with Pulse mode, even out to 50 miles. 
 

Another observation, we can mad dog an AIM-120 at a target helo, and the missile will immediatly track the target , even though we can’t see it on our radar screen. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Diesel_Thunder

[pete_auau]

again i  say    its  a bug in dcs  where  you cannot lock  a  helo on  your  radar  because of  the  speed  issue  of the  helo,  needs  to be  above 90  i believe  can  some  one  from ed  confirm if  the  bug  has  been  fixed  yet

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/289469-f18-radar-does-not-lock-on-to-helis/#comment-4852927

Edited February 2, 2022 by pete_auau

[Fiztex]

The best is to just use guns, especially on a formation of several helicopters if they fly tight - the gun correction on one locked helicopter in the middle works just fine for all the rest, so you just rudder a line with a pipper through them and they are all gone. IMO no point in wasting even a fox 2 on something that can easily defeat it and at the same time can't really be a threat to you. If they are covered by SAM, that's another story, of course, but that is quite a rare occurrence in my experience. If they are flying low and you drop on them in a dive you can even go with CCIP to kill them, just aim at the bottom part of them.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Fiztex

[Padonis]

I'm not talking about fox 2, but following the helicopter, finding it. As you can see in the video, I can't even use the radar using Vulcan.

[pete_auau]

4 hours ago, Padonis said:

I'm not talking about fox 2, but following the helicopter, finding it. As you can see in the video, I can't even use the radar using Vulcan.

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/289469-f18-radar-does-not-lock-on-to-helis/#comment-4886010

[Docsnuggles]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:27 AM, pete_auau said:

Unless  this  bug has been  fixed  your unable  to lock  on a helo  under  90  knots,  they have  to be flying  faster  than  90   but  not  sure  about the  speed  though  although  close  to the ball park

this bug has only become noticed shortly. 2 weeks or so. *cough* Have you already purchased all new stuff? *distract from problems*

[pete_auau]

7 hours ago, Docsnuggles said:

this bug has only become noticed shortly. 2 weeks or so. *cough* Have you already purchased all new stuff? *distract from problems*

since  dec  25  last year when it  was reported  as a bug

[Docsnuggles]

On 2/13/2022 at 3:47 AM, pete_auau said:

since  dec  25  last year when it  was reported  as a bug

thats nothing in ED terms. look at the bugs in other modules, for example the NVG reflections in the Ka50 or the crappy reflections in some planes.... 1-2 years or longer reported...