Do I need a collective?

[Dangerzone]

Just watched @Casmo s video...

Short, sweet, to the point and I'd have to say that me personally would agree with everything that's been said in that video. 

I already own a CM3, but if I didn't I'd definitely put money towards a T50-CM3 throttle and pedals well before considering a collective. Maybe the only exception would be if I was only ever going to fly helicopters only and already had pedals and had no need for a throttle, otherwise the throttle first would definitely be the priority.

I've found I can be very precise with the CM3 throttle with a helicopter, it has all the buttons (and more) that I need. A collective would only serve for better immersion / realism, but as far as giving an advantage - I'd be hard pressed to see how a collective would give an actual in-sim advantage over a TM3.

One thing I was surprised with in the video was his recommendation NOT to configure the throttle as pull for increased pitch, and push for less.  Surprised because I had the same thought as Casmo. I've always had the throttle set to push forward for lift for exactly the same reasons mentioned in the video, but talking to other simmers I always felt I was the only one doing this - going out on my own, so it was encouraging to hear that Casmo uses the throttle the same way (when not using the collective) and I'm not completely crazy. 

Now with that being said... I want a collective anyway, but it's too pricey to justify the cost, so can someone please prove Casmo (and me) wrong so I can still justify buying one. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Dangerzone

[clayvt]

the only reason I decided to reverse my throttle was because of the AB detent on my warthog.  i changed to a push-through piece and it was annoying at the higher end of collective pull (forward) hitting that bump and getting jolts of collective when it went over it.  reversed, the bump is low enough in the collective throw that i can go over it, and still not be pulling enough to get airborn.  so it just makes it a little easier in the regard.  

it took some getting used to, because i certainly did the "i need power, go forward!" and crashed a lot. lol

but i think i've overcome that fairly well.

[Dangerzone]

8 minutes ago, clayvt said:

the only reason I decided to reverse my throttle was because of the AB detent on my warthog.  i changed to a push-through piece and it was annoying at the higher end of collective pull (forward) hitting that bump and getting jolts of collective when it went over it.  reversed, the bump is low enough in the collective throw that i can go over it, and still not be pulling enough to get airborn.  so it just makes it a little easier in the regard.  

it took some getting used to, because i certainly did the "i need power, go forward!" and crashed a lot. lol

but i think i've overcome that fairly well.

I too have the detent in mine, but I've configured the curves so that at the detent I'm at max collective. I found the CM3 seems to have enough control even up to the detent that I didn't have to worry about it, but can understand that it would be beneficial having that little extra throw.

[sirrah]

26 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

Now with that being said... I want a collective anyway, but it's too pricey to justify the cost, so can someone please prove Casmo (and me) wrong so I can still justify buying one. 

 

Nope sorry , other than what you said yourself, imho the collective pretty much only adds to immersion. Before I had my Virpil VPC rotor TCS plus base + Alpha-L grip, I used my TM Warthog (reversed axis mostly for immersion sake) and I was able to do everything. I could get the Hind from full speed, to hover landing on a post stamp within 20 seconds with my TM Warthog throttle and, although the Virpil collective works and feels great, I didn't suddenly become a better helo pilot.

 

If the Virpil set is a bit too expensive to your likings (I must agree, it is quite costly), you could also consider the collective from Mikhail ( @K-51), which is very reasonably priced. Not sure though, if the current situation affects his ability to keep his business going (him being located in Russia)

Check out his thread here:

 

[dburne]

I have been contemplating getting a collective for the Apache as well. I also have a Virpil CM3 throttle and feel it will do just fine for me. I remember back when I was flying the KA-50 I had not trouble using the Warthog throttle with it. So I am inclined to just stay with the CM3 throttle and not spend the money. Especially as I am not sure how big the learning curve for the Apache will be and whether I will have the patience to stick with it. 

[Boosterdog]

I fly (flew - currently too many vulnerable wires and a 3 month old puppy have curtailed actvities) helos in DCS almost exclusively. 

My own opinion only but DCS is too bugged (especially for Helos) to justify unnecessary costs such as this. There are far too many other things to draw you out of any immersion.

My throttle is set up as standand - push for increase collective. I think most standard throttles have more switches to assign stuff too as well. 

 

[Hiob]

Same here - "push for power*". Otherwise I would get confused when jumping in from a fixed wing.

I use a Virpil CM2 (no detents) and am very happy with it in the helicopters. I thought briefly on getting a proper collective but my "work place" is already convoluted and stuffed enough with periphery and cables, so I am skipping it.

[dburne]

16 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Same here - "push for power*". Otherwise I would get confused when jumping in from a fixed wing.

I use a Virpil CM2 (no detents) and am very happy with it in the helicopters. I thought briefly on getting a proper collective but my "work place" is already convoluted and stuffed enough with periphery and cables, so I am skipping it.

 

Yeah so is mine, I am very confined to a fairly small space. So another good reason for me to save the money.

[Baldrick33]

In my early DCS helicopter days I was beyond rubbish and convinced myself it was the collective (using a Warthog throttle). So I managed to set up a CH flightstick to be a collective which worked reasonably well. I set a button as a modifier to switch the axis to some unused control so I could hold its position to access other controls and simply put it back into roughly its position press the modifier again to re-enable it as a collective.

After many hours I became semi competent but got a bit fed up switching the gear between fixed wing and helicopters so reverted to the TM throttle as an experiment. If anything it further improved my flying! So it was the practice not the collective.

I do have the throttle reversed, I have no issue with muscle memory and pull to lift vs push for power. It just feels more natural. The obvious exception is the Harrier which messes with my mind when I go into panic mode!

 

 

[hannibal]

once u go collective, u dont want to go back

[Talisman_VR]

I use a modified Saitek throttle quadrant.  Please see picture below.  I extended one of the levers with a light tube (plastic, or in my case bamboo).

This sits down the left of my seat and is clamped to the bookcase on the left of my seat.

Can't get used to using my fixed wing ac throttle as I keep moving it the wrong way due to muscle memory flying fixed wing.  This set up works brilliantly for me and is very, very cheap and easy to set up.

Happy landings,

Talisman

Edited March 12, 2022 by Talisman_VR

[Dangerzone]

The collectives look very interesting. One of the things though is that I don't want to be stuck with a collective designed for a particular aircraft. I love the CM3 because it has tonnes of buttons - it's not just a F16 or a F18, but it has more buttons and switches. If I was going a collective - I'd be wanting one with buttons galore.

[MadMonty]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:51 PM, hannibal said:

once u go collective, u dont want to go back

I support what you said. I have been flying with TM Warthog Throttle (reversed axis, I found thats more realistic) for a lot of years. Now I have ordered the VPC collective and immediately it felt like flying a real helicopter. The precision is so much better, that it actually changed my style of flying and I feel much more comfortable now. I defintely recommend using a collective - there is no way back…

[dburne]

If I find I will stick with the Apache through the learning process I undoubtedly will get a Virpil Collective. Trying my best to hold off on it for a while, I have spent a crap load of money on this hobby of mine the last 12 months. My wallet could use a break lol.