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The most detailed sim ever?


bratwurst

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I haven't been following the sim business for some time. In my opinion, BS is closer to what I would call a real simulation. It is not just another physics engine with a nice flight model. It is also a very detailed simulation of the very machine you are actually flying. Interesting concept indeed. If it works the way it is advertised.

 

How customizable is it? Would it be possible to enjoy this baby on a laptop without TrackIR and a Joystick? For example simplifying yaw, pitch and rudder for keyboard control but running everything else on highest possible realism settings?

 

I do own a TrackIR PRO 6 axis and a nice Sidewinder with rudder but I don't always carry such equipment with me:pilotfly: Would be nice to know. Can't try it out myself just yet, having trouble downloading the first file.

 

While at it. Anyone here running BS on a DELL XPS m1710 with 7950GTX Go?


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Have you played Open Falcon? Because Open Falcon is the king on the block so far. BS has all flash and no substance.

 

Not to start a rumble here, but cannot let that comment slip by...........

 

How can you possibly stand to compare the two?

 

And to submit that Black Shark is all 'Flash and No Substance' :huh: - Care to substantiate?

 

Honestly - Humour me - I'm dying to know on what you base that *preposterous* allegation on :music_whistling:

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Have you played Open Falcon? Because Open Falcon is the king on the block so far. BS has all flash and no substance.

every one is all ways falcon this falcon that i never saw the big deal BS eat's it up for breakfast.

 

don't get me wrong falcon was a very good sim but nothing compared to BS if you disagree well then i doubt own the game yet

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I Falcon is used to say:

 

Avionics = good

Flight model = paper model

 

in DCS is Avionics and Flight Model.

This says everything.

Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D

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I haven't been following the sim business for some time. In my opinion, BS is closer to what I would call a real simulation. It is not just another physics engine with a nice flight model. It is also a very detailed simulation of the very machine you are actually flying. Interesting concept indeed. If it works the way it is advertised.

 

How customizable is it? Would it be possible to enjoy this baby on a laptop without TrackIR and a Joystick? For example simplifying yaw, pitch and rudder for keyboard control but running everything else on highest possible realism settings?

 

I do own a TrackIR PRO 6 axis and a nice Sidewinder with rudder but I don't always carry such equipment with me:pilotfly: Would be nice to know. Can't try it out myself just yet, having trouble downloading the first file.

 

While at it. Anyone here running BS on a DELL XPS m1710 with 7950GTX Go?

 

To answer your question, yes, there's a game mode that BS can run in. You can simplify the controls to a much more "arcade" or console style gameplay. You can even simplify the avionics, add a radar mode, and fly the entire sim from an external view.

 

I haven't played around with it at all myself yet, but there was a video that Wags put out before the sim was released that showed the mode off. If all you want is a simplified flight model though, you can do that and keep the avionics cranked up to full realism.

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Honestly, I even prefer LOMAC before F4 for the flight model alone. Realistic avionics is a big bonus, but F4 physics is too linear for my taste.

 

I'm no fanboy and just assuming, but it seems like BS is here to set a new standard for flight sims. With realistic flight dynamics, extremely detailed avionics and a killer physics engine with integrated damage modeling. All packed with a dynamic campaign and a neat editor, not to mention all new content still in development. What can go wrong?

 

The king is dead, long live the King!

 

(maybe I will eat this up after actually reviewing BS)

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Have you played Open Falcon? Because Open Falcon is the king on the block so far. BS has all flash and no substance.

 

Just what info on do you base your humorous statement at? BS kicks ass of any derivative of F4 in every espect except one... BS has no flyable jets :music_whistling:

No longer active in DCS...

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To answer your question, yes, there's a game mode that BS can run in. You can simplify the controls to a much more "arcade" or console style gameplay. You can even simplify the avionics, add a radar mode, and fly the entire sim from an external view.

 

I haven't played around with it at all myself yet, but there was a video that Wags put out before the sim was released that showed the mode off. If all you want is a simplified flight model though, you can do that and keep the avionics cranked up to full realism.

 

That sounds both good and terrible at the same time :wacko:

 

Thanks for the info :thumbup:

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This is the most incredible PC based simulation I've ever experienced in so many ways. From the flight model, to the environment - the combat systems - nav systems - comm systems.

 

As a developer, researcher, analyst and teacher for military training, simulation and engineering programs for several decades, I'm quite astounded at this software package.

 

My squadmates and I at TX-Squadron have been flying BS since Thanksgiving, non-stop - finding new things every day.

 

www.txsquadron.com

 

S~ and Bravo Zulu,

 

Gunny

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Laptop user

 

Hey bratwurst,

Just to reply to the last part of the post;

I run it along with multiple other flight and combat sims on a novatech laptop that I've had for 2 years now. P4 2.00ghz,256 Nv6600Go, 2 Gb of slowish ram too! but I just close down most apps using fsautostart and things are just rosey!

OK I have to turn down a few setting like res and scenes etc but unless i'm in the clouds.....prob about 15-22fps during a mission.

Just about good enough for a rotor wing!

 

As for the rest of the replies-I have and still do play all of the mentioned sims and i'm really impressed with DCS because it has realism AND looks.

Good stuff.

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I haven't been following the sim business for some time. In my opinion, BS is closer to what I would call a real simulation. It is not just another physics engine with a nice flight model. It is also a very detailed simulation of the very machine you are actually flying. Interesting concept indeed. If it works the way it is advertised.

 

How customizable is it? Would it be possible to enjoy this baby on a laptop without TrackIR and a Joystick? For example simplifying yaw, pitch and rudder for keyboard control but running everything else on highest possible realism settings?

 

I do own a TrackIR PRO 6 axis and a nice Sidewinder with rudder but I don't always carry such equipment with me:pilotfly: Would be nice to know. Can't try it out myself just yet, having trouble downloading the first file.

 

While at it. Anyone here running BS on a DELL XPS m1710 with 7950GTX Go?

I can't recall how incremental/modular the "arcade" style simplifications are, but I did run it with the "easy" or "arcade" settings full on when I first fired it up. I didn't have time to digest the controls at that time, but was anxious to try it out. I think you could handle it without a joystick, and certainly don't *need* the TrackIR (though I find it confining and almost claustrophobic to fly without it now that I'm so accustomed to it... might want to find a place for it in the laptop bag... hahaha). You should be good to go.

 

I think that my buddy actually has the exact laptop you're inquiring about, but he doesn't have BS installed on it. Maybe I can borrow it from him and try it out. I'll report back if he doesn't mind.

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I can not let this by!

 

I was there many years ago when Falcon 4 was first released, it was so bug ridden it was not playable. The FM for its time was great but it is not even close to BlackShark to day from the standpoint of aeronautical moment and inertia calculations.

Now pay attention you don't want to miss this point-

Falcon 4 is on version 200+ by now after 20 years of development by some of the greatest programming minds in the world.

BlackShark is on Version 1 after only a few years of development by a handful of dedicated sim developers/very smart programmers and it's FM and entertainment value has F4 beat hands down.

Put another way if all the people that worked on F4 charged that sim would cost Thousands of dollars by now.

 

BS has it beat on all points and it's only the base product there is yet to be incorperated a new engine and many modules. :thumbup:

Ask Jesus for Forgiveness before you takeoff :pilotfly:!

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Folks,

 

Please do not turn this into a senseless one versus the other contest. Both games have their positives and negatives and I think are both good products. By all means, enjoy both and other flights sims to come out in the future like Fighter Ops, Jet Thunder and others. The same goes for other helo games like LB2 and EECH. The last thing this community needs are such divisions.

 

Thanks,

Matt

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Wags, you are so right. I've been into flightsims for 25 years and have seen many come and go. They all have given me enjoyment as well as some disappointment. There will always be one that will come along that is better just like how glad we were as kids to be lucky enough to have a TV.....BLACK & WHITE. It's childish to start trashing that old black&white box now that I have an HDTV :)

 

It paved the way for the better technology we have today.

My first flightsim didn't look much like an airplane but it gave me sooo much pleasure! And it sparked my interest enough to go take flight lessons and get my pilot's license many years later!

~Redtail~

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Have you played Open Falcon? Because Open Falcon is the king on the block so far. BS has all flash and no substance.

 

The mod teams out there have done a real number with Falcon in recent years, that's for sure. I remember when Falcon was first released, shortly after the North beat the South, and it completely blew.

 

Open Falcon is a great sim, but the poor (in comparison) visuals sort of ruin the immersion for me. I can have all the button pushing in the world, but if I don't feel like I'm in a fight than it just isn't the same.

 

Both sims have their place though. There is quite a bit of diversity between both products and each appeals to their respective fans. One man's poison is another man's wine.

 

On a side note, If I may be so eloquent, I still think the FM in Falcon blows goats. It feels a little too, I don't really know how to explain it...maybe, "linear" or "on rails".


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Folks,

 

Please do not turn this into a senseless one versus the other contest. Both games have their positives and negatives and I think are both good products. By all means, enjoy both and other flights sims to come out in the future like Fighter Ops, Jet Thunder and others. The same goes for other helo games like LB2 and EECH. The last thing this community needs are such divisions.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

I agree. We're all in this together (i.e. The developers the end user), although competition is great (it spurs creativity) bashing and tearing down projects is pointless banter.

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I agree with Wags.... I been flying OF4.5 for the past 2 years, and i love it, but that's not stopping me from getting in BS too, but im not givin up on OF that's for sure;

firstly ill like to say that the OF sim is running on an engine tht's over 10years old. so there are limitation in wht can be moded. plus the dev team are not allowed to do exe edits which is a major drawback for development. So for wht it was and wht it is now, ill say hats off to the guys who devoted their time and patience to makes this an awesome sim with a good combat experience. u cannot compare an F-16 combat sim to a helo combat sim, they obvisouly will have differences. as for the candy and technology behind the sims, BS is also an awesome sim with new engine and design to it. They both have their good sides with different experiences.

 

The point is: Great job to the dev teams for providing us with these sims. that we can just download and enjoy!! till the next one comes up with more features.

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Open Falcon is a great sim, but the poor (in comparison) visuals sort of ruin the immersion for me. I can have all the button pushing in the world, but if I don't feel like I'm in a fight than it just isn't the same.

 

 

There is actually more truth here than you may realize, but the immersion factor doesn't come in graphics or button mashing or cockpits (although we love them, DCS is right there)..

 

It boils down to the basic philosphy difference between , say DCS and Falcon.

 

when it comes to falcon's main strength and, in my opinion, why it is so enduring.

 

However, Falcon is not really about flight models. Falcon is about the F-16 air combat experience.

...

 

 

At some point in your Falcon 4.0 experience, you will realize that you must develop real fighter pilot skills to succeed. You will focus more on your own strengths and limitations as a fighter pilot and less on the simulation.

 

 

in the end Falcon 4.0 was the complete package. The Plane and the War, and with the many mods it only got better on the Plane side :) By now you can see half of the endearing of Falcon 4.0 is its dynamic War simulation. I highly recommend reading the Appendix in the F4.0 manual. The idea behind it is truly amazing and unique in the sim genre.

 

 

 

 

DCS on the other hand is not so much about the Ka-50 combat experience, or learning how to be the helicopter pilot in a larger war. Its more focused on the helicopter itself, while at the same time providing some great play grounds to go and test your skills.

 

 

 

Rather than focus on several aircraft at a medium level of fidelity, we will release each DCS aircraft module individually and at a very high level of fidelity. Black Shark demonstrates the level of detail that will be the hallmark of the DCS series.

 

 

 

at this DCS has succeeded in every way.

 

 

To say either one is the most detailed sim ever is a stretch, but i will say that Falcon is probably one of the defactor standards by which all sims for the next 30 years will be compared to. Even Armed Assault should probably be looked at as far as Sim detail goes, it may not do everything as physically accurate, but tends to simulate the battlefield pretty well. (and TrackIR + ArmA is awesome!)

 

As more DCS modules are added on, i can only hope that the experience will move the detailed aircraft to a way that we can move the experience beyond graphics, button switching and cockpits and into really getting that War experience :)

 

 

 

i think this quote sums it up best from the F4.0 manual appendix

 

 

Ask programmers and designers who work on combat flight simulations what simulation features are critical, and most will define a great sim by how accurate the flight model and avionics are. Create a set of prescripted missions along with a few videos and

voil.É you have a simulation.

 

Unfortunately, to create a great simulation, a flight model, avionics, enemy AI and good graphics are only the start. The purpose of the Falcon series [Any Series in my opinion] is not just to simulate the aircraft but the entire fighter pilot experience. Our goal has been not just to replicate the flight dynamics, avionics and visuals of flight, but to include the elements that make up the combat environment.

 

 

When we can combine the DCS high fidelity Aircraft with Falcon 4.0's combat experience.. That will probably be the Holy Grail of simulations. Especially considering DCS is moving towards adding more aircraft and helos. Getting those into a great experience together will be key to rounding of this already great Sim. :smartass:



 

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Hey bratwurst,

Just to reply to the last part of the post;

I run it along with multiple other flight and combat sims on a novatech laptop that I've had for 2 years now. P4 2.00ghz,256 Nv6600Go, 2 Gb of slowish ram too! but I just close down most apps using fsautostart and things are just rosey!

OK I have to turn down a few setting like res and scenes etc but unless i'm in the clouds.....prob about 15-22fps during a mission.

Just about good enough for a rotor wing!

 

As for the rest of the replies-I have and still do play all of the mentioned sims and i'm really impressed with DCS because it has realism AND looks.

Good stuff.

 

Thanks buddy, but I fired it up yesterday and it runs like a dream on my m1710 laptop in 1280x800 full screen. I didn't have to configure anything other then crank up the graphics somewhat. TrackIR feels natural and I did my first test flight with full realism, that I found amusingly easy actually. I was reading about all kinds of drifting problems but I can get to a full stop and hover in a few seconds. I even practiced circle strafing around a harmless m113 that was trying to hit me with the .50 to no avail.

 

Even basic control with the keyboard was working pretty good, on full realism. That was a surprise.

 

Flying feels great so far :thumbup:

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When we can combine the DCS high fidelity Aircraft with Falcon 4.0's combat experience.. That will probably be the Holy Grail of simulations. Especially considering DCS is moving towards adding more aircraft and helos. Getting those into a great experience together will be key to rounding of this already great Sim. :smartass:

 

True, that's why I have all of the good sims installed on my PC all the time. Lock On is right now down to aerobatics and formation flying for me and my squad, now doing mostly BS and luckly for me I have more and more squadmates to fly with, I also have F4:AF with all the patches and nice mods though I never really got hooked with it because of the aircraft it features, regardless how realistic it's battlefield is, the F-16 is a no-go for me. I even still have Flanker 2.51 installed. So yes, there's plenty of room to enjoy many flight sims that are now out there. Why limit yourself by focusing only on one? You gonna miss something else for sure.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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Have you played Open Falcon? Because Open Falcon is the king on the block so far. BS has all flash and no substance.

 

Because it has not an F-16? It will. Not all flight simmers can afford the time to play a full dynamic campaign anyway (I never finished one in the 8 years I had played falcon 4). I have open falcon and quit playing it for the flighht and damage models. Once I tryied DACT in lockon, despite its defects I couldnt come back to the paper plane flight model, all player F-16 scheme anymore.

 

As modules for DCS blackshark get released there will be simply no reason to loock back at any F4 derivative at all.


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