Orwell Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) Why not give a rudder option akin to the Huey and every other heli in the sim? As of now, I don't know what's going on, but the anti-torque pedals in <profanity> module are totally insane. Edited April 19, 2022 by Orwell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Perhaps it's just me, but I don't understand what you are saying. 4 1 System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarok_73 Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 22 minutes ago, sirrah said: I don't understand what you are saying Orwell is definitely not for everyone. 4 Natural Born Kamikaze ------------------------- AMD Ryzen 5 3600, AMD Fatal1ty B450 Gaming K4, AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT, 32 GB RAM Corsair Vengeance LPX, PSU Modecom Volcano 750W, Logitech G940 HOTAS, Turtle Beach VelocityOne Rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 I myself appreciate the rudder options. The more options the better imho. 3 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostycab Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 17 hours ago, sirrah said: Perhaps it's just me, but I don't understand what you are saying. Nope, it's not just you.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 8 hours ago, dburne said: I myself appreciate the rudder options. The more options the better imho. Me Too. likes my FFB setting very much indeed. 2 HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate as standard. OpenXR user, Open XR tool kit disabled. Open XR was a massive upgrade for me. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo. MT user (2 - 5 fps gain). DCS run at 60Hz. Vaicom user. Thrustmaster warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height with brail enhancements to ensure 100% button activation in VR.. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound.... you know when you are dropping into VRS with this bad boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwell Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) I know some of you don't use curves, and I don't either... But for me, the Apache is way too brutally twitchy in terms of yaw. I'm talking unrealistically so. The machine cannot fly like that in real life. I'm sorry, but I've flown helicopters in the past and that is just foolish. I'm saying tone them down, way down, to the more manageable levels of responsiveness found in the Huey/Mi8. So then I try to use a curve to tame it. Except then you trim with the PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB option, the curve doesn't move over to the new center point as it should (and does for the cyclic). So then in a hover with left pedal put in, you're left with the sensitivity found in the mid-left region of the user-curve. I'm confident no one understands what I'm saying here. And it seems like the board is full of people who will defend ED at all costs rather than encourage ED to address an issue. Edited April 20, 2022 by Orwell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, Orwell said: I know some of you don't use curves, and I don't either... But for me, the Apache is way too brutally twitchy in terms of yaw. I'm talking unrealistically so. The machine cannot fly like that in real life. I'm sorry, but I've flown helicopters in the past and that is just foolish. I'm saying tone them down, way down, to the more manageable levels of responsiveness found in the Huey/Mi8. So then I try to use a curve to tame it. Except then you trim with the PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB option, the curve doesn't move over to the new center point as it should (and does for the cyclic). So then in a hover with left pedal put in, you're left with the sensitivity found in the mid-left region of the user-curve. I'm confident no one understands what I'm saying here. And it seems like the board is full of people who will defend ED at all costs rather than encourage ED to address an issue. You are correct the rudders need some tuning for sure. 2 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rongor Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Still confused what he might think of with the Huey rudder option.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwell Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 33 minutes ago, dburne said: You are correct the rudders need some tuning for sure. Here is my issue. There is a fine balance between making each module "feel" different, and totally borking these modules. IMO when it comes to helicopters, ED has a bias toward borking. They need to keep in mind that everyone has totally different controls setups **ANYWAY**. We're not **ACTUALLY** in the real aircraft. So making the anti-torque pedals super twitchy might "feel" realistic according to the consultants they hire, with their fancy $600 pedals, but for someone else they might be totally bonkers. Ultimately, they need to offer vastly more options in terms of tunability for controls in helicopters, accounting for the fact that everyone here has different setups that are vastly different from the controls in the actual machines. We're talking different fulcrum points on sticks and pedals etc. Physically. Curves are jacked because if you lower the saturation and maintain a flat curve, you lose yaw authority at the extreme ends of travel. 6 minutes ago, Rongor said: Still confused what he might think of with the Huey rudder option.... That the huey/mi8 aren't twitchy AS HELL. At least make the user curve follow the "new, trimmed center" position of the rudder. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rongor Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 21 minutes ago, Orwell said: At least make the user curve follow the "new, trimmed center" position of the rudder. That's exactly what it does. With the trimming modes, you shift your curves' center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted April 20, 2022 ED Team Share Posted April 20, 2022 57 minutes ago, Orwell said: ED has a bias toward borking. There are hundreds of different controls variables out there, when it comes to controls we give as many options as we can and then some of it falls on the user to tune and adjust as needed. If you have good suggestions, please share, but be nice about it. Thanks. 4 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Orwell said: At least make the user curve follow the "new, trimmed center" position of the rudder. You got me curious so I went into DCS and set up my curves to be 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 31, and 100. (Obviously not practical - but I've put in extreme's so I could be confident of 'catching it out') I then CTRL+Enter to bring up the axis window, - brought my rudder to 50% right in the axis (Which would have been physically ~80% right I guess) and then trimmed, recentered, and checked the movement from there. The user curve followed the new trimmed center - so from what I can tell it's already working precisely as you're suggesting. I'm not entirely sure why you're having such difficulty if you've got curves the way you want - but I'm fairly confident it's not because trim isn't honoring the curves when it's offset. Can you advise what you have your custom curves set to, and maybe some people here may be able to assist you with something that might be more to your liking? Edited April 21, 2022 by Dangerzone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havner Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 OP has said "PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB" so you don't recenter them after trim. And that the curve doesn't follow then. 1 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephedrin Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 When you have rudders without springs you don‘t trim the pedals, isn‘t that the point of having them? I had similar complaints in the beginning finding the Apache too twichy around the vertical axis, bein easily flyable with the cyclic but uncontrollable with the pedals. That was because I assumed to fly it like a hydraulic Huey! I don‘t have much real life experience in helicopters, 2 hours in an R22, purely mechanical and extremely sensitive. It flys like a Huey on Extasy but ab Apache is neither a Huey nor an R22, it is a flying hydroelectical computer. Anyway, what I found was that I suddenly had no issues with my nose anymore when I understood that the flight control system would manage the nose itself and the more I tried to fly it like a Huey with actual anti torque pedals the more it fought my input: oscillations. Slowly keep the ball in the center and don‘t do much more and the oscillations stay away. Maybe the vertical axis needs tuning, I don‘t know. But it‘s totally managable and I doubt it‘s a matter of the pedals in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Havner said: OP has said "PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB" so you don't recenter them after trim. And that the curve doesn't follow then. Aaah - I see. Sorry - my mistake. Thanks for the clarifiation. Edited April 21, 2022 by Dangerzone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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