Ship Damage Model

[dresoccer4]

Was the ship damage model upgraded recently? I was just firing some simple rockets into the side of the Ticonderga and there was beautiful damage with multiple holes as well as large chunks of the hull exploded out in 3D. 

I applaud immersion enhancements like this! Just curious when this came into effect and if it's planned for all ships?

https://ibb.co/dGPTfKd

Edited August 9, 2022 by dresoccer4

[razo+r]

Has always been like this. 

[dresoccer4]

Just now, razo+r said:

Has always been like this. 

There always been full 3D damage models and not just decals? 

[razo+r]

Yes

[dresoccer4]

9 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Yes

 

well while i have your attention i had another question and thought it's be better to ask then open a whole new thread.

has the damage radius of dumb bombs gotten wider within the last year or so? i remember having to really sniper vehicles with a 500lb bomb and thinking it didn't seem very realistic. however just now flying the F1 I dropped a single 500lb bomb and was able to destroy multiple vehicles in like a 100' radius

[razo+r]

3 minutes ago, dresoccer4 said:

 

well while i have your attention i had another question and thought it's be better to ask then open a whole new thread.

has the damage radius of dumb bombs gotten wider within the last year or so? i remember having to really sniper vehicles with a 500lb bomb and thinking it didn't seem very realistic. however just now flying the F1 I dropped a single 500lb bomb and was able to destroy multiple vehicles in like a 100' radius

If you used the french bombs, they are probably stronger than they should be.

 

 

[Baco]

or maybe right, and ED needs to fix the MK and NA series... Its ridiculous to drop 6 MK 84SE 50cm away from a tank and get NO damage...

Couple that to the rudimentary damage system for ground units and it becomes very frustrating to use dumb bombs in DCS...

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Baco

[Kappa-131st]

I especially think that the ship damage model should be improved to be more realistic.
For example, try to destroy a "Perry class" with Kamov's KH-25ml... A 10th hit would only lower the hitpoint by 15%.

Being able to attack vital points of ships is a good thing, but it's not developed enough.
It would be necessary to be able to attack the rudder, the radars, the control tower, the ammunition bunkers...
It would be necessary that, when attacking a ship, the result would have a more direct impact according to the location of the shot.
That the ship could lose its radars or its engines. In short, increase the number of damage zones, and increase the impact of damage on the responsiveness of the ship.

And it would also be necessary that the old DCS ships be remodeled up to date (I am thinking in particular of the Kirov class), and that other buildings of the Russian fleet be created, in order to be able to correctly populate the bases of Poliarny, Severomorsk and Murmansk for the release of the Kola'map.

The following classes should be added:
 - Destroyers: Sovremeneiy & Udaloi
 - Frigates: Admiral Gorshkov & Admiral Grigorovich & Neustrashimyy
 - Corvettes: Steregushchiy & Buyan & Karakurt & Nanuchka

Of course, there are "mods" to add ships, but I hope ED will make more Russian & soviet ship for Kola's map, witch is litteraly the most important military's complex for Russians's fleet

[Dragon89]

30 minutes ago, Kappa-131st said:

I especially think that the ship damage model should be improved to be more realistic.
For example, try to destroy a "Perry class" with Kamov's KH-25ml... A 10th hit would only lower the hitpoint by 15%.

Being able to attack vital points of ships is a good thing, but it's not developed enough.
It would be necessary to be able to attack the rudder, the radars, the control tower, the ammunition bunkers...
It would be necessary that, when attacking a ship, the result would have a more direct impact according to the location of the shot.
That the ship could lose its radars or its engines. In short, increase the number of damage zones, and increase the impact of damage on the responsiveness of the ship.

And it would also be necessary that the old DCS ships be remodeled up to date (I am thinking in particular of the Kirov class), and that other buildings of the Russian fleet be created, in order to be able to correctly populate the bases of Poliarny, Severomorsk and Murmansk for the release of the Kola'map.

The following classes should be added:
 - Destroyers: Sovremeneiy & Udaloi
 - Frigates: Admiral Gorshkov & Admiral Grigorovich & Neustrashimyy
 - Corvettes: Steregushchiy & Buyan & Karakurt & Nanuchka

Of course, there are "mods" to add ships, but I hope ED will make more Russian & soviet ship for Kola's map, witch is litteraly the most important military's complex for Russians's fleet

The Neutrashimyy is already in DCS; however, the 3D model needs a serious update.

[Kang]

Or try using an actual anti-ship missile like Harpoon and marvel at why sailors ever were afraid of such things, if this was a realistic representation.

The whole 'French bombs are bigger than they should be!' topic isn't new at all. Look at the Viggen's missiles, for example, which do not measure up even near the actual explosive payload they should have. It's the 3rd party devs trying to get DCS to actually display the effect one would expect.

[upyr1]

When I saw this topic I thought it was going to be a list of ways to improve the damage model. My wish list there.

Damage components- Obviously things like radar antennae would be up here. but here is what else should be

The hull and armor- The hull should be divided into segments, which have their own hit points based on whether or not they are armored. If we get battleships it would take a bunch of anti-ship missiles hitting the same spot to break through the armor. 

Rudder, screws and lower hull- a weakness of any ship is the lower hull, if a shot should have broken the keel that should be modeled. Also the rudder and screws need to get damaged. It would be awesome to have a torpedo hit a ships rudder and have it stuck doing doughnuts like the Bismarck. 

Internal components, the right (or wrong hit) can really mess up a ship. For example the HMS Sheffield had her fire suppression system taken out I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't happen to the Moscow as well. Also exploding magazines can destroy ships, which was the case with both the Hood and Arizona. 

I'd love to see flooding modeled as well, ideally flooding should be based on the size of the holes with the chance the ship will capsize and the crew will get it under control. 

 

[Kappa-131st]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

The hull and armor- The hull should be divided into segments, which have their own hit points based on whether or not they are armored. If we get battleships it would take a bunch of anti-ship missiles hitting the same spot to break through the armor. 
[...]
I'd love to see flooding modeled as well, ideally flooding should be based on the size of the holes with the chance the ship will capsize and the crew will get it under control. 

Totaly agree! With the divised segments hitbar, the model can flow by front side, backside, or rooling by starboard or portside!

[dresoccer4]

4 hours ago, upyr1 said:

When I saw this topic I thought it was going to be a list of ways to improve the damage model. My wish list there.

Damage components- Obviously things like radar antennae would be up here. but here is what else should be

The hull and armor- The hull should be divided into segments, which have their own hit points based on whether or not they are armored. If we get battleships it would take a bunch of anti-ship missiles hitting the same spot to break through the armor. 

Rudder, screws and lower hull- a weakness of any ship is the lower hull, if a shot should have broken the keel that should be modeled. Also the rudder and screws need to get damaged. It would be awesome to have a torpedo hit a ships rudder and have it stuck doing doughnuts like the Bismarck. 

Internal components, the right (or wrong hit) can really mess up a ship. For example the HMS Sheffield had her fire suppression system taken out I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't happen to the Moscow as well. Also exploding magazines can destroy ships, which was the case with both the Hood and Arizona. 

I'd love to see flooding modeled as well, ideally flooding should be based on the size of the holes with the chance the ship will capsize and the crew will get it under control. 

 

feel free to turn it into your wishlist!

[upyr1]

21 hours ago, dresoccer4 said:

feel free to turn it into your wishlist!

I did 

[Silver_Dragon]

On 8/22/2022 at 11:39 PM, Baco said:

or maybe right, and ED needs to fix the MK and NA series... Its ridiculous to drop 6 MK 84SE 50cm away from a tank and get NO damage...

Couple that to the rudimentary damage system for ground units and it becomes very frustrating to use dumb bombs in DCS...

 

 

Tanks has very resistant to splash damage, has some post about them on the forum. Has required a direct hit with a get out a tank. 

[Baco]

Yes I guess so, still the problem adds to the simple, or better said non existent, damage model for ground units. Some sort of suppression or even track damage could result from splash damage.Maybe not on T-90s or Abrahams, but T-55s or M-60s would be affected.

 

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Tanks has very resistant to splash damage, has some post about them on the forum. Has required a direct hit with a get out a tank. 

Not really, this is kinda a myth. Catastrophic kills aren't the only way to take out tanks.

See this document.

The TLDR of it though is that no, you absolutely do not have to score a direct hit to take out a tank. Here the problem is DCS where if you tried to do the same kind of tests, you'd be doing well to damage a single vehicle from hundreds of rounds fired and just about only from direct hits.

DCS doesn't do much in the way of blast damage, there is a radius that damage is inflicted but these are hit and miss (pun intended), but there's no simulation of forces being imparted to targets, nor is there overpressure simulation. As for fragmentation it's non-existent in DCS.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Northstar98

[MAXsenna]

@Northstar98

I think I he meant in DCS as analogy to the ships.  

[Northstar98]

1 minute ago, MAXsenna said:

@Northstar98

I think I he meant in DCS as analogy to the ships.  

Oh, oh dear.

If that's indeed the case, disregard me.

[Kang]

3 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Tanks has very resistant to splash damage, has some post about them on the forum. Has required a direct hit with a get out a tank. 

Funnily enough lightly armoured vehicles and even some of the trucks display the same kind of resilience in DCS, though.

[dresoccer4]

23 hours ago, upyr1 said:

I did 

you're welcome