correct as is External lights are broken

[AutomatedBoredom]

As it says in the title.

 

The Physical switches within the cockpit in regards to external lighting do not appear to work correctly. The Fuselage Dim/Bright switch controls the tail light and the Wing/Tail light controls the Fuselage lights. It is impossible to change the lights on the wingtips without turning all external lights off. Anti collision lights seem to work as intended in that it does change blinks and can be turned off properly. Formation light brightness has no functionality and there are no formation lights. (This might not be implemented yet). When setting the aircraft to formation lights instead the wings blink white along with the anti-collision lights. When set to A-C, and all other lights off, the formation knob will adjust color strength on the wingtips.

I honestly can't imagine that this is how the lights work on the actual F-16, there's no internal consistently at all.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

be sure you are in the correct master light mode,

if you are still having problems please attach a short track replay example, you can save a track replay after you exit a mission. 

thanks 

[Keight]

35 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

 

 

Will the covert mode and tail position light be implemented?

[twistking]

6 minutes ago, Keight said:

Will the covert mode and tail position light be implemented?

Covert mode would be IR-only lights for NV Goggles, correct? What's the tail position light though?

[Keight]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

Covert mode would be IR-only lights for NV Goggles, correct? What's the tail position light though?

Correct and currently they are not visible through the NVG.

There is a white position light on the tail below the rudder.

[twistking]

24 minutes ago, Keight said:

There is a white position light on the tail below the rudder.

I only found one photo of the light, but it was from an F-16 which had the parabrake package below the rudder. Are you sure that "our" F-16 would also feature that light?
If so we should get the pitchforks ready: Would seem like a big oversight then...

Of course the IR lights are also much desired, but i understand that implementing these might need some improvment to the Night Vision Effect first...

[skywalker22]

I think that the outside lighting works fine now, only think that seems to be missing is the tail position light. It is modeled, that "bulb" is sticking out of the tail, just it's not turned on (not shining).

This is how we have now:null

In our manual:

This is how is IRL:

Edited August 16, 2022 by skywalker22

[twistking]

41 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

I think that the outside lighting works fine now, only think that seems to be missing is the tail position light. It is modeled, that "bulb" is sticking out of the tail, just it's not turned on (not shining).

Ok. I see. Thanks.

I can't agree however with ext lights working fine. Have you actually used them in Multiplayer? They are barely visible after some hundred feet and completely vanish after 1nm, while they should be visible for 25-50nm...

[skywalker22]

The problem is length of visibility, I agree on that. They can be seen a mile away at most.

But that might also be the game's (it's engine) issue, maybe is just not possible to make them work and be seen like IRL. I am sure ED is aware of that, and I am afraid there is not much they can do about it. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by skywalker22

[twistking]

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

The problem is length of visibility, I agree on that. They can be seen a mile away at most.

But that might also be the game's (it's engine) issue, maybe is just not possible to make them work and be seen like IRL. I am sure ED is aware of that, and I am afraid there is not much they can do about it. 

 

interstingly, the hornet's ext lights are sufficiently bright (probably too bright at some distances) and can be seen for 10nm, which is still not enough but make them "usable" at least. unfortunately they have other issues: at some distances they sprites do look ugly, at some distances they look too bright, because the sprites don't scale correctly and don't reduce brightness gradually. also they change harshly with each lod-change.

[AutomatedBoredom]

Here's the track file. The wingtip position lights do not turn off even when in the off position, and instead brighten and dim with the formation light switch. I am fairly certain that formation lights and position lights are not the same thing.

Position Lights don't turn off.trk

[twistking]

26 minutes ago, AutomatedBoredom said:

I am fairly certain that formation lights and position lights are not the same thing.

In the F-16 they somehow are. It's a weird system, where different lights can have different "roles". I still find it confusing tbh. ...

[Tholozor]

2 hours ago, AutomatedBoredom said:

Here's the track file. The wingtip position lights do not turn off even when in the off position, and instead brighten and dim with the formation light switch. I am fairly certain that formation lights and position lights are not the same thing.

Position Lights don't turn off.trk 1.99 MB · 0 downloads

When the switches are in the OFF position, brightness is variable, controlled by the FORM knob. This is correct as-per the flight manual.

If you want the lights completely off or non-visible, either put the Master knob to OFF or COVERT.

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Tholozor

[SickSidewinder9]

You can't have just the "formation" lights (whatever they are, they aren't green tabs) without the gree/red lights?  That seems odd.

[Tholozor]

For the F-16, the red/green wingtip lights double as formation/position lights, while the red/green lights mounted near the intake are labeled as position only.

The rest of the formation lights consist of the white floodlights that illuminate the vertical tail (FUSELAGE switch on the panel), the white light on the belly, and the white light opposite of the AR door light, behind the canopy.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Tholozor

[SickSidewinder9]

That's weird.  Was hoping to basically just have the bit that illuminates the tail/belly/whatever.  I find it hard to believe that's real.  Those red and green lights can go for miles; just look at any airplane passing overhead.

[AutomatedBoredom]

I kind of find it crazy that the anti collision white lights on the wingtips make better formation lights in a sense than the actual ones. Whoever thought of making it this way was cutting too many corners.

[Northstar98]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:24 PM, skywalker22 said:

The problem is length of visibility, I agree on that. They can be seen a mile away at most.

But that might also be the game's (it's engine) issue, maybe is just not possible to make them work and be seen like IRL. I am sure ED is aware of that, and I am afraid there is not much they can do about it.

Yes there is, what you do is have separate sprites for multiple LODs, such that they appear appropriately at a wide range of viewing distances without compromising between lights that look very nice close up but are invisible at far distances (like the F-16), or lights that don't look as nice but are visible from far away (like the Hornet).

The Su-25/25T has this kind of thing implemented - the sprites used for the lights change as the LOD of the model changes. The only issues are that at very close distances (i.e LOD 0) the sprites need some work and the sprites used that grant greater visibility from far distances kick in too close (at like, LOD 1).

[twistking]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

Yes there is, what you do is have separate sprites for multiple LODs, such that they appear appropriately at a wide range of viewing distances without compromising between lights that look very nice close up but are invisible at far distances (like the F-16), or lights that don't look as nice but are visible from far away (like the Hornet).

The Su-25/25T has this kind of thing implemented - the sprites used for the lights change as the LOD of the model changes. The only issues are that at very close distances (i.e LOD 0) the sprites need some work and the sprites used that grant greater visibility from far distances kick in too close (at like, LOD 1).

The Hornet also has different sprites for each LOD. At least you see a jump in brightness on each LOD change. I could imagine that the Hornet's lights 10nm view distance is an engine limitation, but my guess on why the lights don't look nice would be that they are simply missign an art pass. It would not be the first time in dcs...
I still have the feeling that ED staff simply never play missions at night...

[Northstar98]

17 minutes ago, twistking said:

The Hornet also has different sprites for each LOD. At least you see a jump in brightness on each LOD change. I could imagine that the Hornet's lights 10nm view distance is an engine limitation, but my guess on why the lights don't look nice would be that they are simply missign an art pass.

Does it? I thought it just had a fake bloom effect, that remains at a fixed angular size (leading to them swamping the aircraft, looking very bright and looking like something from a UFO clip). Perhaps there is a transition in there somewhere.

Personally, at LOD 0/1 the bloom should be more or less removed (or significantly reduced), it should at least account for LOS properly (I shouldn't be able to see the sprite through the aircraft) and then do something more akin to the Su-25/25T with a sprite size that looks more natural at further distances.

[twistking]

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Does it? I thought it just had a fake bloom effect, that remains at a fixed angular size (leading to them swamping the aircraft, looking very bright and looking like something from a UFO clip). Perhaps there is a transition in there somewhere.

Personally, at LOD 0/1 the bloom should be more or less removed (or significantly reduced), it should at least account for LOS properly (I shouldn't be able to see the sprite through the aircraft) and then do something more akin to the Su-25/25T with a sprite size that looks more natural at further distances.

Yes, there is some "pumping" going on, when you increase distance. I think it's either the sprites scaling or the sprites changing in intensity (on a sprite that has an alpha gradient it's hard to tell the difference).
I think you cannot remove the bloom (aka the sprite), because on a SD (standard definition) picture, there is no other way to convey the brightness. I think the sprites would simply have to scale with actual distance and not by a threshold defined by the LOD. It's not rocket sccience and has been done well over a decade ago).
Of course the sprite should not be rendered if the light source is occluded (exception would be to have big but very faint sprites rendered even when light is obscured when flying through clouds or fog. but then those sprites should be occluded by geometry).
 

Edited August 19, 2022 by twistking

[BIGNEWY]

Please stay on topic for the thread title 

thanks

[skywalker22]

The bug we have is that the tail position light is not working. 

About the brightness and how far out all the lights are visible, that still remains to be tweaked.

[_SteelFalcon_]

Yeah that tail light isnt working at all sadly.

[Aquorys]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:15 PM, AutomatedBoredom said:

The Fuselage Dim/Bright switch controls the tail light and the Wing/Tail light controls the Fuselage lights.

The FUSELAGE switch controls the floodlight for the tail fin.

The WING/TAIL switch, if BRT or DIM is selected, sets the brightness of the wingtip lights (that's why it says WING on it), and it turns on the inlet lights and the rear-facing light at the rear end of the tail fin (that's why it says TAIL on it), bright or dim respectively. If OFF is selected, it turns of the inlet lights and the rear-facing light, and transfers the control of the brightness of the wingtip lights to the FORM knob (and the FORM knob could then be used to turn the wingtip lights off).

On 8/16/2022 at 2:15 PM, AutomatedBoredom said:

Formation light brightness has no functionality and there are no formation lights. (This might not be implemented yet).

Just tested it, works normally, it's implemented. The formation lights are the red/green lights on the wingtips and the inlet and the various steady white lights on the aircraft.

On 8/16/2022 at 2:15 PM, AutomatedBoredom said:

When setting the aircraft to formation lights instead the wings blink white along with the anti-collision lights. When set to A-C, and all other lights off, the formation knob will adjust color strength on the wingtips.

The wingtip lights never blink white, what you saw was the reflection of the anti-collision light. Note the label with the bracket around the FORM, A/C and ALL positions of the master switch that says COVERT. You didn't select the formation lights, you set them to covert mode. Same for A/C, it sets the anti-collision light to covert mode, but not the formation lights. Covert mode turns off visible lights, so it does exactly what the labels say it does.

The FORM knob adjusts the brightness of the formation lights, and the brightness of the wingtip lights unless WING/TAIL is set to BRT or DIM.

On 8/16/2022 at 2:15 PM, AutomatedBoredom said:

I honestly can't imagine that this is how the lights work on the actual F-16, there's no internal consistently at all.

But that's how they work, it seems you just misunderstood some of the labels.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Aquorys
Clarified & corrected information on formation vs. wingtip lights and the function of the FORM knob