fixed Sidewinders on Tip Stations placed too far aft

[Bremspropeller]

Cheers,

the Sidewinders (all of them) are placed too far aft. They need to be placed a good deal forward.

Compare the screenshots with some photos.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Vibora

[Bremspropeller]

The fwd tip of the launcher needs to end just aft of the fwd Sidewinder fins.

[Giskvoosk]

 

I'm more concerned that the sidewinder rail doesn't seem to have been modelled at all. 

I did a quick image search on the internet, sidewinder and magic doesn't seem to share the same launch rail. I've yet been able to identify the exact types but they do have dissimilar geometry at least.

The one on our in game model resembles magic rail more than the sidewinder's rail:

 

Magic rails:

 

Magic rail on left wing tip, sidewinder rail right for acmi pod or something alik

 

Sidewinder rail:

Edited August 24, 2022 by Giskvoosk

[Bremspropeller]

7 hours ago, Giskvoosk said:

I'm more concerned that the sidewinder rail doesn't seem to have been modelled at all. 

That seems to be the case, yeah. Good observation!

I'm more concerned with the airplane looking goofy with Sidewinders on, though

 

Altogether maybe an early acces thing?

[Nealius]

The problem isn't the position but rather the Sidewinder model itself. The AIM-9P and J 3D models are shorter than they should be by a great deal. I think the JULI is accurate but I haven't compared the three recently so my memory is fuzzy. 

[sedenion]

14 hours ago, Giskvoosk said:

I'm more concerned that the sidewinder rail doesn't seem to have been modelled at all. 

I did a quick image search on the internet, sidewinder and magic doesn't seem to share the same launch rail.

This has to be verified but I think this is actually the same rail. The R550 Magic was designed to be interchangeable with Sidewinder even on US aircraft.

Edited August 24, 2022 by sedenion

[Giskvoosk]

4 hours ago, sedenion said:

This has to be verified but I think this is actually the same rail. The R550 Magic was designed to be interchangeable with Sidewinder even on US aircraft.

 

I'm aware of the anecdote however i cant verify if its merely software/connectivity compatibility or a hardware compatibility expanded to the rail. I suspect its the former. It could make less sense if Dassault developed a different rail for Spanish when the indigenous magic rail, which is mounted on wing tip almost exclusively in French service, is already compatible with sidewinders. After all, its the CE version that we have in game, a correct sidewinder rail would be more appropriate in this case.

10 hours ago, Nealius said:

The problem isn't the position but rather the Sidewinder model itself. The AIM-9P and J 3D models are shorter than they should be by a great deal. I think the JULI is accurate but I haven't compared the three recently so my memory is fuzzy. 

J is included relatively recently in the game, around March or April this year. Its teeny tiny a bit short of 3m, meets the open source info.

P has been modelled ~2.78 which IRL should be 3m also...? But it depends on the rocket/propellent types im not sure how it varies.

[sedenion]

5 minutes ago, Giskvoosk said:

I'm aware of the anecdote however i cant verify if its merely software/connectivity compatibility or a hardware compatibility expanded to the rail. I suspect its the former. It could make less sense if Dassault developed a different rail for Spanish when the indigenous magic rail, which is mounted on wing tip almost exclusively in French service, is already compatible with sidewinders. After all, its the CE version that we have in game, a correct sidewinder rail would be more appropriate in this case.

https://dbpedia.org/page/R.550_Magic

Quote

The R.550 Magic (backronym for Missile Auto-Guidé Interception et Combat) is a short-range air-to-air missile designed in 1968 by French company Matra to compete with the American AIM-9 Sidewinder, and it was made backwards compatible with the Sidewinder launch hardware.

[Giskvoosk]

8 minutes ago, sedenion said:

https://dbpedia.org/page/R.550_Magic

Hmmm, good to know

But apparently the Spanish were using a different rail

[LCO489]

 

This values on Mirage-F1.lua could solve the issue, making the missiles look ina more realistic position like the image above.

I've tested it and it looks fine, but the changes breaks IC.

            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9B, 0.15, nil, {0.45,  -0.07,  0.0},         { 7 }),        -- AIM-9B
            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9J, 0.15, nil,    {0.55,  -0.08,  0.0},        { 7 }),     -- AIM-9J
            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9P, 0.15, nil,    {0.45,  -0.07,  0.0},        { 7 }),     -- AIM-9P
            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9JULI, 0.15, nil, {0.55,  -0.08,  0.0},        { 7 }),    -- AIM-9JULI
            pylon_loadout(id_MAGIC_I, 0.15, nil, {0.44,  -0.09,  0.0},        { 7 }), -- R550 Magic I

Thes are the current values:

            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9B, 0.15, nil,    nil,         { 1 }),        -- AIM-9B
            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9J, 0.15, nil,    nil,        { 1 }),     -- AIM-9J
            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9P, 0.15, nil,    nil,        { 1 }),     -- AIM-9P
            pylon_loadout(id_AIM_9JULI, 0.15, nil, nil,    { 1 }),    -- AIM-9JULI
            pylon_loadout(id_MAGIC_I, 0.15, nil, nil,        { 1 }), -- R550 Magic I

[DSplayer]

Well it doesn't help that the AIM-9s currently have inaccurate lengths which can contribute to the pylon placement being incorrect.
 

 

[IvanK]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:48 AM, sedenion said:

This has to be verified but I think this is actually the same rail. The R550 Magic was designed to be interchangeable with Sidewinder even on US aircraft.

The R550 rail is a completely different design to the AIM9 Rail. The R550 rail should also include the Aerodynamic Safe flap, that closes at 150K IAS (not currently modeled)

Edited August 28, 2022 by IvanK

[Get_Lo]

Not to mention how many AIM-9 rails there are. Most sidewinders arent even compatible with eachother, nonetheless a Magic

[gnomechild]

Bumping this. Seems like an easy fix and it's bothering me lol

[turkeydriver]

The Magic and Sidewinder can use the same wing mounting bolts and electrical connections BUT NOT THE SAME RAIL.  This is IRL confirmed.   The Magic uses the LM39 Rail and the AIM-9 uses the AERO 3B, called the ADP-8 in Spanish service.  They are different rails.   What the Dassault manual means when they are compatible means the mounting bolts for the rail to the actual wing and the electrical connectors are the same, NOT the rails.  

[Bremspropeller]

Bump.

Any news on plans of fixing the Sidewinder aft placement and maybe a word on Sidewinder-pylons and whether they're intended?

Cheers.

 

[Bananabrai]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Bremspropeller said:

Bump.

Any news on plans of fixing the Sidewinder aft placement and maybe a word on Sidewinder-pylons and whether they're intended?

Cheers.

 

Bump of the bump

[Snappy]

10 hours ago, Bananabrai said:

Bump of the bump

Bump - the threequel.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Snappy

[Vibora]

Fixed. We'll commit it for next update.

[Bremspropeller]

Thats awesome, thanks Aerges!