Interested, but should i?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Any comment on the current state of the module?

What should I expect from the flight model / handling?

Any air combat hints and tips?

[Rhinozherous]

I started again with the Mig21 after some absence from her (2 or 3 years where I flew all the other modules).

You will notice that it is not the newest module in DCS but the overall immersion is still awesome - in terms of textures and sound. The button assignments need an overhaul I think, newer modules have much more options (Options for Toggle OR fixed position for example)

I would say the Flightmodel is very good, she flies like I imagine an old Mig should fly (I am no real pilot, so I only have what I THINK should be right as reference) - You should watch your speed, stay above 500kmh at all times - except for landing. For landing you also have to watch speed, when she is slow with flaps and gear out she will go down fast, but after a few landings you get a feeling fast. Ignore the cockpit rattle, she will NOT fall apart  (and you have slider for that in special settings)

She is not made for dogfight, more for Radar commanded intercepting - AWACS or GCI gives you vectors, you go there and trie to make the enemy go boom before dogfight starts... but if needed you can do this as well - just watch your speed and dont kill your engine with Zero G maneuvers or too much G's. If you do so, the Restart procedure is short and done fast but you need enough altitude.

You can have a ton of fun with her in MP on the Enigma server for example. 

She also has some A2G ordnance but I never used it much, someone else have to tell about this part.

In terms of development state... I think they still work on her but I dont know how much. Last time I heard something about an cockpit overhaul, dont know if this is still a thing.

 

ALL IN ALL: You can have a lot of fun with the Mig21 - She has its quirks but they add to her personality! She looks complicated but her systems are not that hard to understand.

Have Fun!

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

If you're into coldwar era aircraft of course you should. Despite some critiques FM is quite nice, challenging but manageable after a little training which is a big part of the appeal. Systems wise apparently it isn't perfect, it's still a 2014 module birth from a mod and that's there, but if you aren't that nitpicky it doesn't really matter, it's nice to fly, systems do their job and are nice to manage, it's nice to study manuals/videos, which you're plenty of, telling you how to master the beast.

In short, IMO it's really fun to fly and master to the day, plus everything told upwards.

[Volator]

I agree with everything written above. It's not a perfect module, but pretty much none are in DCS.

 

The MiG-21 has a lot of character and is fun to operate because you really have to work a little bit as a pilot and actually fly that thing.

 

Odd things are the gunsight which is a little bit off, some switches/systems aren't (fully) implemented, and FM-wise take-off and landing behaviour are a little bit annoying as the DCS MiG-21 - like some other DCS modules - tends to be glued to the ground, so performing a proper take-off rotation or a smooth landing on the main wheels and perfoming aero braking isn't working well/at all. Further development / bug fixing seems somewhat slow, but at least it does still get some attention by the devs, even though they are quite busy with developing new modules.

 

You should definitely get it if you are into Soviet aircraft and like steam gauges and lots of switches to play with and planes that really need to be flown in an old-school way.

 

[RatMan]

It's one of the most interesting aircraft in the lineup IMO. Challenging to fly and iconic. The devs are working on an update (or will be in the near term), but there's no reason not to get it now.

[Gunfreak]

It seems to be one of the most popular moduals in DCS it flies like a mach 2 warbird in many ways. Lots of character, a plane that will kill you if you don't watch out. Etc. 

With cold war servers being big, these days the MiG21 is in much use.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

The reason not getting it now is that I am a cheap guy, I would wait for the sale.

[Rudel_chw]

15 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

The reason not getting it now is that I am a cheap guy, I would wait for the sale.

 

I would do the same, the next sale should be around September 19th ... but buy it, even if the aircraft is not perfect it will provide lots and lots of flight hours and you will be supporting the development of further modules from this developer, like the F-4U Corsair and the F-8 Crusader    

I enjoyed its attention to detail, here you can see what a detailed taxi & take-off looks like ... yes, I know that this is a far cry from those 1-minute videos that are in YT, but I'm a sucker for detail:

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Rudel_chw

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Now you mention it, MiG-21 vs F-8 will be cool.

[Rudel_chw]

Just now, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Now you mention it, MiG-21 vs F-8 will be cool.

 

 ... yes, but probably the F-4 will arrive sooner ... the purists will say that the DCS Mig-21 is too modern for Vietnam, but I really don't care as the differences between versions are not all that big.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

...ambush the F-4s in MiG-21 from above while they are engaging the MiG-17....the last thing of many F-4 pilot will see is the smoke coming from the AA-2 you shoot at them...

Chuck Yeager's Air CombatI

[Gunfreak]

6 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

 ... yes, but probably the F-4 will arrive sooner ... the purists will say that the DCS Mig-21 is too modern for Vietnam, but I really don't care as the differences between versions are not all that big.

Well the first version of the F4 will be too modern for Vietnam too.

By using restricted weapon. I don't think it really matters much.

 

But yes only buy during sales.

I have 75ish% of moduals and except for 1 I bought full price and 2 I bought on pre order sales price. They have all been bought during sales. Next one for me in the next sale will probably be the hind.

2 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

...ambush the F-4s in MiG-21 from above while they are engaging the MiG-17....the last thing of many F-4 pilot will see is the smoke coming from the AA-2 you shoot at them...

Chuck Yeager's Air CombatI

Tried to do a MiG21 ambush F4 mission. 

Just a short one to test if it was even possible to sneak up on the AI.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Gunfreak

[Kobymaru]

On 8/31/2022 at 2:10 PM, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Any comment on the current state of the module?

What should I expect from the flight model / handling?

No! Don't buy it. I have owned this module since 2014 and many things are wrong and have been broken since then.

ASP/aiming is completely useless, flight model is very clunky especially in stall regimes, A2G mode is complete fiction, performance is really bad.

Please do not make the same mistake as me and throw money into an unfinished title, Devs are not willing or capable of fixing it.

You will discover more and more bugs and incorrect system modeling, and the devs will completely ignore you, as they ignore everyone here, just open Bugs forum or one of the many complaint threads. Devs believe everything is great and do not respond to any issues except occasionally with "not a bug" or "working on it" when not really working on it.

They have no incentive to make me happy because I already spent my money on it, but you should use your leverage as a potential customer to NOT reward the abandonment of modules.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Kobymaru

[Beirut]

On 8/31/2022 at 3:01 PM, Rudel_chw said:

 

I would do the same, the next sale should be around September 19th ... but buy it, even if the aircraft is not perfect it will provide lots and lots of flight hours and you will be supporting the development of further modules from this developer, like the F-4U Corsair and the F-8 Crusader    

I

 

 

I might grab it when it's on sale. I try to buy everything on sale, I'm a working class stiff. 

 

I really enjoyed it the last time I had it for the free trial, even managed to get into the systems a bit. A big selling point for me is I read they are going to give it a makeover. Granted that might not happen for ten to fifteen-years, but it's nice to hear anyway.

[Rudel_chw]

18 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

I have owned this module since 2014 and many things are wrong and have been broken since then.

 

I too purchased this aircraft on December 2014, during a sale for only US$ 25 ... and curiously in spite of so many defects that you have found on this module, my experience is very different .. I have got countless enjoyable flight hours on the type, edited many missions for it and had great fun overall ... for just 25 bucks ... think about it: where can you have so many hours of entertainment for this amount of money?

[Kobymaru]

7 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

I have got countless enjoyable flight hours on the type, edited many missions for it and had great fun overall ... for just 25 bucks ... think about it: where can you have so many hours of entertainment for this amount of money?

I'm glad you had fun playing, good for you. In terms of fun I could play games like War Thunder or Ace Combat, but I want to play a realistic module with as few bugs as possible. I have been watching this forum for 8 years now and have come back to check out the module every year or so, every time leaving again because it hasn't changed fundamentally. I'm ok flying with some bugs or unrealism for a while because you know, people make mistakes. But flying with the same bugs for 8 years is quite frustrating and seriously ruins my fun and immersion.

All I can say is that DCS in general and M3 in particular have all the incentive to create buggy alpha-version modules and no incentive to finish a module. Don't add more incentive to developers to create unfinished modules.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Kobymaru

[Beirut]

3 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

I'm glad you had fun playing, good for you. In terms of fun I could play games like War Thunder or Ace Combat, but I want to play a realistic module with as few bugs as possible. I have been watching this forum for 8 years now and have come back to check out the module every year or so, every time leaving again because it hasn't changed fundamentally. I'm ok flying with some bugs or unrealism for a while because you know, people make mistakes. But flying with the same bugs for 8 years is quite frustrating and seriously ruins my fun and immersion.

All I can say is that DCS in general and M3 in particular have all the incentive to create buggy alpha-version modules and no incentive to finish a module. Don't add more incentive to developers to create unfinished modules.

 

 

That's a bit harsh.

 

I'll agree it's not perfect - DCS or the Mig-21 -  and the progress for things things is sometimes glacial, but like many others I have more fun flying DCS than any other sim. And I disagree with the idea that modules are "buggy alpha version", some are neglected but a good deal of them get a lot of love. 

 

I think it's a matter of managing expectations and having as much fun as possible with what is available. And with what is available I'm having a lot of fun.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Kobymaru said:

have come back to check out the module every year or so, every time leaving again because it hasn't changed

 

mmm ... it seems then, that I might have more flying hours with the 21 than you do. Pity that you couldn't really enjoy your purchase.

[Joe1978]

It is true that it is quite abandoned and it´s look "old" for today's standard ... but for €25 in sales you can add a "red plane" in your hangar and have fun from time to time.

Developers: a post or a check on the status of the module from time to time would be appreciated.... 

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

1 hour ago, Kobymaru said:

I'm glad you had fun playing, good for you. In terms of fun I could play games like War Thunder or Ace Combat, but I want to play a realistic module with as few bugs as possible. I have been watching this forum for 8 years now and have come back to check out the module every year or so, every time leaving again because it hasn't changed fundamentally. I'm ok flying with some bugs or unrealism for a while because you know, people make mistakes. But flying with the same bugs for 8 years is quite frustrating and seriously ruins my fun and immersion.

All I can say is that DCS in general and M3 in particular have all the incentive to create buggy alpha-version modules and no incentive to finish a module. Don't add more incentive to developers to create unfinished modules.

 

With that attitude it doesn't matter what you do, DCS, Tetris, be a normal person in your day to day, whatever… If you are so unable to enjoy anything just quit everything mate but yours is not "average" players' experience in DCS at all and you're giving a wrong, wildly wrong, and negative impression to the OP writer who never said to be a hardcore impossible to please armchairpilot nerd. You realize that, right?

I also own the module since 2014, sadly I only used it on and off from time to time until relatively recent years when I could deepen the learning how it deserves it, and I really regret not having had the time for it earlier because it's a really enjoyable module, fun to master, nice to fly, everything already said by firsts posters, until you… yours is not the general position, not in this module, not in DCS in general, only a small bunch of guys like you shout a lot around these forums, but still people seem to enjoy this module and DCS, which make me wonder why that bunch of impossible to please people are here in the first place?? Go get your Air Force pilot's license, maybe you also find bugs and problems with RL not working as expected like some others do around here either…

I just tell you, I'm a grounded due to medical reasons PPL pilot and the DCS experience is just amazing, for me in particular a placebo maybe since there's no other way for me to fly any more, but no matter how unpleasable you bunch are, it just is a great experience, and this module with its problems and all is quite enjoyable and as a matter of fact unique since we don't have any other relatively modern redfor full fidelity jet fighter (JF17 fidelity remains to be seen). If you can't find a reason to enjoy it maybe you can't find either a reason to enjoy anything in life, but that's on you, not on every forum member no matter how many times you bunch of grumpy people come to these forums shouting your grumpiness about everything.

[Germane]

vor 53 Minuten schrieb Ala13_ManOWar:

With that attitude it doesn't matter what you do, DCS, Tetris, be a normal person in your day to day, whatever… If you are so unable to enjoy anything just quit everything mate but yours is not "average" players' experience in DCS at all and you're giving a wrong, wildly wrong, and negative impression to the OP writer who never said to be a hardcore impossible to please armchairpilot nerd. You realize that, right?

I also own the module since 2014, sadly I only used it on and off from time to time until relatively recent years when I could deepen the learning how it deserves it, and I really regret not having had the time for it earlier because it's a really enjoyable module, fun to master, nice to fly, everything already said by firsts posters, until you… yours is not the general position, not in this module, not in DCS in general, only a small bunch of guys like you shout a lot around these forums, but still people seem to enjoy this module and DCS, which make me wonder why that bunch of impossible to please people are here in the first place?? Go get your Air Force pilot's license, maybe you also find bugs and problems with RL not working as expected like some others do around here either…

I just tell you, I'm a grounded due to medical reasons PPL pilot and the DCS experience is just amazing, for me in particular a placebo maybe since there's no other way for me to fly any more, but no matter how unpleasable you bunch are, it just is a great experience, and this module with its problems and all is quite enjoyable and as a matter of fact unique since we don't have any other relatively modern redfor full fidelity jet fighter (JF17 fidelity remains to be seen). If you can't find a reason to enjoy it maybe you can't find either a reason to enjoy anything in life, but that's on you, not on every forum member no matter how many times you bunch of grumpy people come to these forums shouting your grumpiness about everything.

Well, he has a point. If you really value realism and have more fun with the accurate simulation of the technology and systems and not so much with the flying itself, then this module is not for you. For me it was the first module and I have to say that I was disappointed. I am enthusiastic about the aircraft itself and learning and understanding the technology. 

But that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with it if you are only interested in flying.

There is perhaps one more thing to consider: If you use VR, you can see the age of this module very clearly.

[Beirut]

4 hours ago, Kobymaru said:

I'm glad you had fun playing, good for you. In terms of fun I could play games like War Thunder or Ace Combat, but I want to play a realistic module with as few bugs as possible. I have been watching this forum for 8 years now and have come back to check out the module every year or so, every time leaving again because it hasn't changed fundamentally. I'm ok flying with some bugs or unrealism for a while because you know, people make mistakes. But flying with the same bugs for 8 years is quite frustrating and seriously ruins my fun and immersion.

All I can say is that DCS in general and M3 in particular have all the incentive to create buggy alpha-version modules and no incentive to finish a module. Don't add more incentive to developers to create unfinished modules.

 

 

Could I ask you what some of the bugs are that bother you? I don't know the plane well enough to know of any, other than the obvious need of some love for the cockpit textures.

 

Are the bugs like... the guns don't fire if you fly under 500KPH, or something more esoteric like the radios don't work on real life frequencies? I'm honestly curious since I might buy it when it comes on sale.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

2 hours ago, Germane said:

Well, he has a point. If you really value realism and have more fun with the accurate simulation of the technology and systems and not so much with the flying itself, then this module is not for you. For me it was the first module and I have to say that I was disappointed. I am enthusiastic about the aircraft itself and learning and understanding the technology. 

But that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with it if you are only interested in flying.

There is perhaps one more thing to consider: If you use VR, you can see the age of this module very clearly.

No, he doesn't, a flight simulator is supposed to be used for flying, and it's great you enjoy reading manuals and just clicking buttons if you mistakenly think that's what it takes to fly an aeroplane. But, if it's like that, then FS98 could be fine and good enough for those people, which is fine with me if you like that, but then again… Why on Earth would those complain about "realism" in a Flight Simulator where you're supposed to actually fly the thing?? For me that realism is, not only of course, but more with the flying since I've known no other sim out there with the quality and features with regards to flight like DCS is. It does also recreate systems and they should and must be there, of course, but flying and realism in flight is the main and distinctive feature in DCS, let alone warbirds for instance, we haven't ever seen anything like the ones we have here, not even close. Realism is stepping out of a humble C172RG and jumping on a P-51 cockpit while seeing behaviours exactly the same, inertias, ground control and behaviour which is actually really mistreated anywhere else in the simming World, engine management down to a point where governor shows the exact same quirks and glitches as I was seeing some hours before in a real aeroplane, and don't get me started with torque… I wouldn't possibly know what a real MiG-21 is like aside from stories and books, but bearing in mind military aircraft also face the problem with classified things and all (which MiG-21 also faced with Croatian Air Force where the data for this module came from initially) I cannot complain at all about ASP behaving slightly or a lot different than the real one, but I can tell behaviour in the air and flight is just superb even as it is with it's alleged problems, thus enjoying the flight sim is quite easy for me without focussing in tiny details I don't need to focus on even though I'm perfectly aware they're there.

About your statement I marked above, so do I, it's really nice taking a real manual from a real aircraft and using it in everything while most things work as stated there. But since I cannot tell, and I believe very few can, what the real aircraft is regarding military jets from various and diverse eras, countries, designers, whatever, it is so unimportant if tiny details aren't exactly and perfectly modelled to an insane level. I'll tell you a secret, even an even humbler C152 has a 4 pages checklist just to start up the aircraft and take off, then again in a sim no matter how realistic it would be made you would use a few lines from that checklist, it makes no sense in a PC simulator unless training for the real thing to follow every step (check windows closed and locked? check all passengers buckled and seat adjusted? C'mon…) hence what is "a realistic simulation" if I have to drop 3/4 of the checklists due to being useless in front of my PC?? And that's a C152, and I would have to drop from a real MiG-21?? And above all, why would I complain about an alleged realism I know would be useless in a PC? Is it just a pose perhaps to show everyone I'm nerdier than the others? It's a nonsensical attitude mate, hence I just enjoy what I can enjoy and that's all, because what we have is really enjoyable no matter what some people might say, complain, cry, b/%ch about.

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, Germane said:

Well, he has a point. If you really value realism and have more fun with the accurate simulation of the technology and systems and not so much with the flying itself, then this module is not for you. For me it was the first module and I have to say that I was disappointed. I am enthusiastic about the aircraft itself and learning and understanding the technology. 

But that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with it if you are only interested in flying.

There is perhaps one more thing to consider: If you use VR, you can see the age of this module very clearly.

I fly VR exclusively,  and I honestly can see this problem people keep talking about the cockpit.  It's actually one of the nicer cockpits to be in in VR as it's so colourful. 

But it will be interesting to see the difference once the cockpit overhaul is released. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I have a lot of fun in it. More hours in it than anything else in DCS. Some questions about the ASP and such, but the FM is pretty damn solid. Visually, the interior could use updating and that's in the cards. You just have to be patient; M3 is small and this isn't full time for them. This triggers a lot of angy-posting chock full of emotes and the like, so be prepared for that if you're searching through the forum for topics that could help.

It's not at all hard to fly, but has a lot of character. Fly it like an idiot, it will snap back at you. Fly it as prescribed, and it's great.

Edited September 2, 2022 by MiG21bisFishbedL