fixed datalink et target point useless

[Mavkruger]

hi,

i test in multiplayer and after a precise alignment and only 10 min of nav flight (no turn, just altitude change) i test the datalink and the target point, and they don't work

i use HMS first with laser ranging and i uncage the skhval, i aim at a tank and i lock it, i click on the tank icon on the datalink system, after i click on SEND/MEM. It appairs on the abris. I reset the targeting system, use DL ingress as usual and the skhval go 10 km away in the sky. same problem with the Target system of the PVI.

for the target point, the fly by method works, the skhval designation don't work

i test in solo with a plane already hot and in the air and it's the same problem even after 30 sec of flight

bug datalink.trk

[Amarok_73]

The datalink contacts are not positioning the Shkval on the ground where the target is located, but in the air, over the target.

 

[Hobel]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb Amarok_73:

The datalink contacts are not positioning the Shkval on the ground

 

and how is it to be interpreted that this is precisely what sometimes happens?

[Mavkruger]

1 hour ago, Amarok_73 said:

The datalink contacts are not positioning the Shkval on the ground where the target is located, but in the air, over the target.

 

sorry but here it's more like 50° on the right and 15km too far. it's useless for combat.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Mavkruger
add precision

[Amarok_73]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

and how is it to be interpreted that this is precisely what sometimes happens?

You tell me. And it's not sometimes, but regular. Who if not the beta tester should know about it?

[Hobel]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Amarok_73:

You tell me. And it's not sometimes, but regular. Who if not the beta tester should know about it?

 

Am 17.12.2022 um 13:51 schrieb Mavkruger:

hi,

i test in multiplayer and after a precise alignment and only 10 min of nav flight (no turn, just altitude change) i test the datalink and the target point, and they don't work

i use HMS first with laser ranging and i uncage the skhval, i aim at a tank and i lock it, i click on the tank icon on the datalink system, after i click on SEND/MEM. It appairs on the abris. I reset the targeting system, use DL ingress as usual and the skhval go 10 km away in the sky. same problem with the Target system of the PVI.

for the target point, the fly by method works, the skhval designation don't work

i test in solo with a plane already hot and in the air and it's the same problem even after 30 sec of flight

bug datalink.trk 784.49 kB · 1 Download

 

I was a bit surprised, at least the result is a bit better, if this is intentional I don't know, at least I can't find anything in the manual. 

  Just set the correct QFE

 

https://youtu.be/u7zSLo90d-4

[Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson]

Hi, in a French mutliplayer community, many of us also pointed up that right now the DL is completely offset and useless. I walked through the detailed start up and aliglement process without success. Even a short 5 mins straight line flight results in the DL points to be offset by several kilometers.

In the ME, INS is in realistic, and alignement on normal + gyrocompassing.

I doubt a DL which points 10kms away from the designated point should be considered as ''correct as is''.

Is there something to be known or is it a bug that require a fix ?

Thanks

[Amarok_73]

4 hours ago, Hobel said:

Just set the correct QFE

And THIS seems to be the actual solution.

EDIT: ...but still, pretty far from being as precise as in the V2.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Amarok_73

[Hobel]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Amarok_73:

And THIS seems to be the actual solution.

EDIT: ...but still, pretty far from being as precise as in the V2.

 

Correction, it's not the QFE, it's the QNH that you have to enter.

But that's not the only thing, there are a few other questionable things that have to do with the whole issue, but I'll have to take a closer look.

[Amarok_73]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

Correction, it's not the QFE, it's the QNH that you have to enter.

Yes, already noted. Some part of the problem may be the low "resolution" of the pressure selector, which has too large intervals between successive settings.

[Mavkruger]

sorry, but QNH is not the solution, i take an hot start helicopter in flight, i made a datalink point in the first 30 sec, just after i do an ingress and i'm 30 or 40 ° off.

 

First one i lock the tank, second one i "DL Ingress" . On abris it show the good position, in skhval i go one the left for no reason. it's in the 30 first second of flight (persian gulf range instant action)

Edited December 19, 2022 by Mavkruger
add photo

[SnuggleFairy]

3 hours ago, Mavkruger said:

sorry, but QNH is not the solution, i take an hot start helicopter in flight, i made a datalink point in the first 30 sec, just after i do an ingress and i'm 30 or 40 ° off.

 

First one i lock the tank, second one i "DL Ingress" . On abris it show the good position, in skhval i go one the left for no reason. it's in the 30 first second of flight (persian gulf range instant action)

 

Yeah i tried your track. The deviation is because of the INS error that accumulated in those couple minutes before you saved and ingressed onto the target. Yeah, it's that fast for some reason. If you zoom in on your ABRIS, you'll see that the saved "tank" is not quite where your laser is pointing. And when you ingress, it's even worse. It all comes down to your nav system thinking that you're in a different spot. Click on your current coordinates on the PVI and compare the values to the ones on the ABRIS - they'll be way off

[Mavkruger]

you don't understand, the track begin with the mission, i have no time of flight before the track. the mission start at 11o'clock, it's 11:00:30.

[SnuggleFairy]

21 minutes ago, Mavkruger said:

you don't understand, the track begin with the mission, i have no time of flight before the track. the mission start at 11o'clock, it's 11:00:30.

I do understand. But what you're missing is how abnormally fast the error accumulates. Something is wrong with that and that cases datalink issuess

[Hobel]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Mavkruger:

sorry, but QNH is not the solution, i take an hot start helicopter in flight, i made a datalink point in the first 30 sec, just after i do an ingress and i'm 30 or 40 ° off.

 

First one i lock the tank, second one i "DL Ingress" . On abris it show the good position, in skhval i go one the left for no reason. it's in the 30 first second of flight (persian gulf range instant action)

 

according to my current observation, hot starts make things worse, try cold starts.

otherwise have you also set MAN correctly?

you must turn the right HDG here then set to Man and then back to Gyro again

Hotstart example:

otherwise track?

Edited December 19, 2022 by Hobel

[Mavkruger]

20 hours ago, SnuggleFairy said:

Yeah i tried your track. The deviation is because of the INS error that accumulated in those couple minutes before you saved and ingressed onto the target. Yeah, it's that fast for some reason. If you zoom in on your ABRIS, you'll see that the saved "tank" is not quite where your laser is pointing. And when you ingress, it's even worse. It all comes down to your nav system thinking that you're in a different spot. Click on your current coordinates on the PVI and compare the values to the ones on the ABRIS - they'll be way off

i know the drift is now implemented, i do this report for the speed of drift, too fast.

18 hours ago, Hobel said:

 

according to my current observation, hot starts make things worse, try cold starts.

otherwise have you also set MAN correctly?

you must turn the right HDG here then set to Man and then back to Gyro again

Hotstart example:

otherwise track?

Sorry but if i take an hot helicopter in flight (not on the ground) i really don't want to set the heading and altimeter, on other module all is allready set for flight.

 

For me on hot start in the air, you need to have no drift, heading and alti set, and the drift begin from the beginning of the flight.

 

[Hobel]

Another thing

@Volk.@Tuuvas@Frederf@rrasfly2

Can someone explain, help?

I start my cold  KA50III.

Take off and with a clean alignment, as you can see in the video, I create a data link/target point and save it.

When I select the target point again, the Shkval swings back to the saved position, not perfect but sufficient for our example.

After that I fly for a while to generate a drift.

get into position.
I select my target point 1 again, as we can see it is strongly drifted. something I think we all expect, the target point 1 drifts as far as the system of the KA50.

Now I Slewe the Shkval back to the vehicle and create another target point 2, if I select this immediately afterwards the Shkval has a very strong drift similar to TGP1.

but how can this be?

the new Datalink Point 2 is saved with the drift from the helicopter, so I should be able to recall the previously saved position without problems?
so where does this "extra" drift come from?

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Hobel

[Tuuvas]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

Now I Slewe the Shkval back to the vehicle and create another target point 2, if I select this immediately afterwards the Shkval has a very strong drift similar to TGP1.

but how can this be?

the new Datalink Point 2 is saved with the drift from the helicopter, so I should be able to recall the previously saved position without problems?
so where does this "extra" drift come from?

 

 

If i had to guess, it could be up to two things:

1. Since your Shark thinks it's moving when it actually isn't, by the time you slew to your second target, you'll have drifted a kilometer or so already.  But this theory only works if the offset gets worse and worse every time you cage then uncage again.

2. It's possible the 5 digits of precision in the Shark's INU is the cause of an offset that doesn't get worse and worse, but is instead a fixed offset distance with every cage then uncage.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Tuuvas

[Frederf]

I did a test where I uncaged at coords, then used that Shkval LOS to save a point 2, then uncaged at point 2, saved point 3, etc. to see if there was a "creep". This was all from active pause hover so any creep would be due to INU creep. I did it from a hot start so it showed no/minimal creep. I'd have to run it again after a cold start NA/PA.

I've found that running a known zero-wind mission and watching the PVI WIND output is a good indicator of wrong INU velocities. It's interesting under what conditions they change plus you get the vector effect of the INU velocity error.

[Amarok_73]

Shouldn't this thread be un-tagged "Correct as-is", as it is confirmed that there's something wrong with this function, and should be addressed by developers?

[Schlomo1933]

the thread tag will never be changed ...   same as "cannot reproduce"   

i have the feeling, when a thread is taged as "correct as - is" or "cannot reproduce" , the thread will never watched again from a moderator...  

[Flappie]

On 12/22/2022 at 3:44 PM, Schlomo1933 said:

the thread tag will never be changed ...   same as "cannot reproduce"   

i have the feeling, when a thread is taged as "correct as - is" or "cannot reproduce" , the thread will never watched again from a moderator...  

I'll ask for the tag to be removed.

[Schlomo1933]

Thank you Flappie!   

[JackFlash]

Agreed with this. Started the range instant action mission. Store a data link target. Reset the weapon system. Select target, DL ingress, uncage. The Shhval pints basically strait forward, in line with the target, but way off in elevation. 

[adirtynurse]

Finally found this thread  This thing has been driving me nuts for the past two weeks. Been flying other helos because of this.