cannot reproduce Cant start her up.

[bmbpdk]

Hello, im doing the tutorial on how to cold start her, but after im told to hit the Start engine button and open the valve, nothing happens.

The APU is running fine but the number 1 engine never gets going.

If i place the start selector in the crank position, the engine goes up to 23%ish but never receive the fuel.

If i place the start selector in the start position the engine spools down to 0%.

 

What am i doing wrong?

[razo+r]

Fuel shut off and cut off valves both to open for both engines?

Got a track by any chance so we can see what you are missing?

[bmbpdk]

I did as told by the instructor and only opened for the number 1 engine.

I can make a track for you.

Standby.

[bmbpdk]

Very interesting:
If i use ANY input from my hardware, the engine wont start as show in the track.
But if i ONLY use mouseclicks, no hardware inputs AT ALL, everything works.
I disabled "HOTAS SYNC" in the options, just to be sure, even though the instructor said he did.

Track file, 16.8MB
https://easyupload.io/vwqqv6

[Falconeer]

1 hour ago, bmbpdk said:

Hello, im doing the tutorial on how to cold start her, but after im told to hit the Start engine button and open the valve, nothing happens.

The APU is running fine but the number 1 engine never gets going.

If i place the start selector in the crank position, the engine goes up to 23%ish but never receive the fuel.

If i place the start selector in the start position the engine spools down to 0%.

 

What am i doing wrong?

Did you select the Engine nr1 with the 4 way switch? Default position is APU, you need to manually select who you want to start i.e. engine 1 or 2 and APU.

After the engine spools to 20%, raise the red lever on the left side by clicking it once

Edited December 18, 2022 by Falconeer

[bmbpdk]

Yes i did, i did as instructed.
And apparently the "Wait for 20%" is only for the BS2, since nothing is mentioned here, only to raise the fuel lever.

[Falconeer]

4 minutes ago, bmbpdk said:

Yes i did, i did as instructed.
And apparently the "Wait for 20%" is only for the BS2, since nothing is mentioned here, only to raise the fuel lever.

Rotor brake turned off?

 

[bmbpdk]

2 hours ago, Falconeer said:

Rotor brake turned off?

 

Yes.

[Falconeer]

Well, only things i can think of then are EEG switches (Engine Governors), Fuel pumps or Fuel shut off valves

 

If not, i suggest you upload the track, so we can see what you are doing

[bmbpdk]

Thanks for the help and suggestions.
I uploaded the track a few hours ago, before your first post.

[razo+r]

4 hours ago, bmbpdk said:

Very interesting:
If i use ANY input from my hardware, the engine wont start as show in the track.
But if i ONLY use mouseclicks, no hardware inputs AT ALL, everything works.
I disabled "HOTAS SYNC" in the options, just to be sure, even though the instructor said he did.

Track file, 16.8MB
https://easyupload.io/vwqqv6

Very interesting track.

I saw that the engine did not spool up at all. I took control of it right after you switched the start switch to the left engine, and when pressing the start button, it did not start either.

However, I started the KA50 III several times today so it definitly does work. Maybe it's an issue with the training mission.

Can you start up the KA50 in a different mission? (for example go to the ME, place down a helicopter on cold start and try that)

[bmbpdk]

Yes its interesting.

Ive had the same problems in both cold start instant missions and the training mission.
As stated in a previous post in this thread:
If i use ANY input from my hardware, the engine wont start as show in the track.
But if i ONLY use mouseclicks, no hardware inputs AT ALL, everything works.

I will try a usermission in ME right now.

Edited December 18, 2022 by bmbpdk

[bmbpdk]

I did the following:

1: Created a mission in ME with only me in a single Ka-50, starting cold on the ramp.

2: I did the startup WITHOUT literally touching my hardware; it did start just fine as it should.

3: I did the startup using my hardware´s levers and buttons and switches; no engine spool up at all, only the APU.

 

[SnuggleFairy]

In your track the engine didn't spool up at all. I took control, pressed the start button and nothing happened. Then i flicked the rotor brake switch up and back down, pressed the engine start and it spooled up just fine. Go into your controls, find the rotor brake and erase all bindings from there

[bmbpdk]

11 minutes ago, SnuggleFairy said:

In your track the engine didn't spool up at all. I took control, pressed the start button and nothing happened. Then i flicked the rotor brake switch up and back down, pressed the engine start and it spooled up just fine. Go into your controls, find the rotor brake and erase all bindings from there

I just confirmed that:

1: The rotorbrake is the cause.
2: If the rotorbrake is used, either through a axis or a button/key/switch, the engine will NOT spool up, not even if it is moved several time.
3: If the rotorbrake is used ONLY through mouseclick, the engine spools up.

Apparently, since no other helicopters have that problem, the Ka-50-3 is reading the rotorbrake wrongly.

[NineLine]

Sorry, we cannot reproduce this. Please check your key bindings. I did plenty of start ups this weekend with no issues. Thanks.

[bmbpdk]

3 hours ago, NineLine said:

Sorry, we cannot reproduce this. Please check your key bindings. I did plenty of start ups this weekend with no issues. Thanks.

As some others say, they can easily reproduce this error using the attached track, and its connected to the rotorbrake.
It does not matter if the rotorbrake is used through an axis or button, if a different button is used, no change.
If the rotorbrake is activated by any other means other than mouseclick, the engine wont spool as other also confirms.

When you say "Check your keybindings", what do you mean by that; I cant have anything binded to the rotorbrake, i cant use an axis, i cant use a button?
 

[Flappie]

This reminds me of this issue:

Edited December 20, 2022 by Flappie

[bmbpdk]

40 minutes ago, Flappie said:

This reminds me of this issue:

 

Interesting, there are some similarities yes.
Do you know what solution, if any, he applied?

[Flappie]

No, we haven't solved the mystery yet. I still think it has to do with the user devices, because if I let the track run on its own, I get the failure, but if I take control before it's too late, I have no failure.

I'm checking your track to see if I get the same result.

[bmbpdk]

Does he by any change have Virpil hardware?
I dont know if it matters, perhaps it could be that or the Virpil software, or just a shadow-input from general hardware.

[Flappie]

Let's summon him.

@LeCuvier Hi, can you please tell us if you have some Virpil hardware? We're trying to udnerstand why you too get this strange failure during aircraft startup.

[AdrianL]

I have Virpil hardware. CM-3 Throttle and Alpha stick. 

If I play the uploaded track without taking control then it engine does not spool. 

I bound the rotor brake to a button on the throttle and take control of the track just before the rotor brake needs to be released. I select the button on the throttle to release and the engine spools up correctly. I also tried binding the rotor brake to an axis on the throttle and it works.

If I do the training mission from scratch then I also have no issues.

 

[Flappie]

Thank you. On my end, it's the same: if I take control over the track right before the roto brake is released, I can start the engine just fine.

@bmbpdk @LeCuvier Please attach your dcs.log file.

 

Even better: if I take control over the track right before the engin is started, and then I set the rotor brake on and off again, I can start the engine just fine. So maybe the rotor brake seems to be released in your track, but it isn't.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Flappie

[Flappie]

Do you use some custom Lua to control the rotor brake?

Or maybe youre using the Rotor Brake axis? If so, check your axis, it might not be well calibrated. Maybe the rotor brake is only released at 100%., and is not at 99%.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Flappie