noted Bombers!

[zcrazyx]

With the announcment of the c-130 becoming an official product, I wonder what the interest would be in larger ww2 aircraft such as medium and heavy bombers. With them seemingly doing well in civilian flight sims i'd be curious to know how much interest there would be in being to actually use them in a historical scenario, dropping bombs among other things. that and multicrew would make them rather more interesting. 

 

Ideas would include, Lancaster, B17.B24, B25, A-26. As well as a Bomber version of the Mosquito, Ju-88 and HE-111. 

 

These bombers would introduce dedicated bomber aircraft using things such as the nordern bomb sight. As well as allowing those of us with an interest in old school planning and navigation to be able to make use of the aircrafts range and performance. 

[razo+r]

 

 

 

 

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[zcrazyx]

4 minutes ago, razo+r said:

 

 

 

 

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Seems as if there is some interest, trouble is would there be enough to reasonably make a profit on for developers

[rkk01]

Check out Project Lancaster

[zcrazyx]

21 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Check out Project Lancaster

Man i hope that becomes an official module, would happily pay for a full blown lancaster, even if the defensive armament is a bit lacking lol.

[Slippa]

On 12/23/2022 at 4:04 PM, zcrazyx said:

Man i hope that becomes an official module, would happily pay for a full blown lancaster,

Wouldn’t we all.

Since there’s a Spit, there has to be a Hurri too, surely?
I’d happily pay for the Lanc, Hurri, Blenheim, a flyable Dak… and on and on til the break of dawn… Which is Christmas Day, and it’s Christmas Eve, so we can all get the pencils sharpened and get busy writing letters to Santa and you just never know…

merry christmas.

[Gunfreak]

17 hours ago, Slippa said:

Wouldn’t we all.

Since there’s a Spit, there has to be a Hurri too, surely?
I’d happily pay for the Lanc, Hurri, Blenheim, a flyable Dak… and on and on til the break of dawn… Which is Christmas Day, and it’s Christmas Eve, so we can all get the pencils sharpened and get busy writing letters to Santa and you just never know…

merry christmas.

By the time our Spitfire showed up in 43,the Hurricane was not used much. Some still flew as hurribomber, especially in the far east where Hurricanes flew until the end of the war against the Japanese,  even dropping Napalm. 

But on the western front 43-45 is no place for a Hurricane. Same with Blenhiem.

There's another simulator that let's you play with all those old school early war planes.

[Silver_Dragon]

23 hours ago, Slippa said:

Wouldn’t we all.

Since there’s a Spit, there has to be a Hurri too, surely?
I’d happily pay for the Lanc, Hurri, Blenheim, a flyable Dak… and on and on til the break of dawn… Which is Christmas Day, and it’s Christmas Eve, so we can all get the pencils sharpened and get busy writing letters to Santa and you just never know…

merry christmas.

Nick Grey was plans to build BoB modules on a future, after the "incoming" F6F Hellcat.

5 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

By the time our Spitfire showed up in 43,the Hurricane was not used much. Some still flew as hurribomber, especially in the far east where Hurricanes flew until the end of the war against the Japanese,  even dropping Napalm. 

But on the western front 43-45 is no place for a Hurricane. Same with Blenhiem.

There's another simulator that let's you play with all those old school early war planes.

DCS WW2 has none limited to a 44-45, remember the Octopus-G I-16 Type 24 (1939). On fact, Hurricanes has totaly plausible to build on a future by Nick Grey BoB Plans, A Blenhiem can use the Mosquito FB.VI experience and the C-130 module move to ED to expand multiengine / multicrew funcionality into the core.

Other Simulator has out of discussion here.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Silver_Dragon

[Gunfreak]

27 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Nick Grey was plans to build BoB modules on a future, after the "incoming" F6F Hellcat.

DCS WW2 has none limited to a 43-45, remember the Octopus-G I-16 Type 24 (1939). On fact, Hurricanes has totaly plausible to build on a future by Nick Grey BoB Plans, A Blenhiem can use the Mosquito FB.VI experience and the C-130 module move to ED to expand multiengine / multicrew funcionality into the core.

Other Simulator has out of discussion here.

 

DCS ww2 is buildt around 44 period. That some random 3rd party developer has made a random russian plane with no support around it is their business. 

 

The fact is ww2 dcs is already lacking massive logistics to make it a full fledge ww2 simulator. And talking about what mabye might come in 10 years in not helpful. 

DCS ww2 should be a proper simulator. Not MSFS for warbrids with random warbirds added willy-nilly. The Blenheim and Hurricane don't fit into anything the DCS ww2 has, at all it would stick out as much as the I16. A fun curiosity that doesn't help DCS be a proper ww2 simulator at all.

Typhoon, Tempest, Spit Mk XIV,  Lancaster,  B24, P51B, Me109Gs, Me110, fixing ww2 ship damage modeling,  fixing warbird AI, fixing ground fire accuracy.  Are all much more important to make DCS ww2 a better simulator. (And given the speed in which ww2 dcs is improved,  this is a decade or more of work. ) Hurricane and Blenheim adds nothing to this except removing focus from making a full complete ww2 experience. 

[Silver_Dragon]

5 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

DCS ww2 is buildt around 44 period. That some random 3rd party developer has made a random russian plane with no support around it is their business. 

 

The fact is ww2 dcs is already lacking massive logistics to make it a full fledge ww2 simulator. And talking about what mabye might come in 10 years in not helpful. 

DCS ww2 should be a proper simulator. Not MSFS for warbrids with random warbirds added willy-nilly. The Blenheim and Hurricane don't fit into anything the DCS ww2 has, at all it would stick out as much as the I16. A fun curiosity that doesn't help DCS be a proper ww2 simulator at all.

Typhoon, Tempest, Spit Mk XIV,  Lancaster,  B24, P51B, Me109Gs, Me110, fixing ww2 ship damage modeling,  fixing warbird AI, fixing ground fire accuracy.  Are all much more important to make DCS ww2 a better simulator. (And given the speed in which ww2 dcs is improved,  this is a decade or more of work. ) Hurricane and Blenheim adds nothing to this except removing focus from making a full complete ww2 experience. 

A little correction.... the old WW2 KS by Lutiem was planned by as a 1944-45 and ED only has build modules promise on that KS (missing the 262) with other previously building (P-51D and Fw-190D-9), except the Mosquito, outside of them. When Luthiem leave the project and the KS defunt, ED has none to limited your scope to only a 44-45 time period. As ED and 3rd parties move, they can build any time period modules, from Spanish Civil War on 33 to 45 and previously early Cold War on 47.

Nick Grey has been very clear, F-6F has a 43 Carrier Pacific Fighter, Bob modules will centred on 40, ED Channel Map has centred on 40-45. M3 build a F4-U1 of 43, Octopus-G has build a I-16 of 1939 and now a La-7 from 44, and ED never has put a limitation to build anything outside of old KS "44-45". ED build your modules by the research and info available, and the help of the "Fighter Collection".

The WW2 Assets pack has actually many units ouside "44-45" period time... And that AI units was planned on the old KS, with other add after, and surely coming many more on future additions to the WW2 assets pack, include pacific, north africa, italy, east front, etc. That can include Ju-87, Do17, He 111, Bf 110, . etc

Fixing ww2 ship damage modeling,  fixing warbird AI, fixing ground fire accuracy has no a problem of "WW2", has a probrem on the DCS core, build new features and bugfixing.

That is only a matter of time.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Silver_Dragon

[Komet_82]

Oh boy I would love to have the Ju 88 flyable in DCS

[Slippa]

I can’t imagine limiting DCS WW2 to a 2 or 3 year period, 39-45 isn’t much of a stretch. 

To include a Hurricane, in any of its configurations, would hardly be a ‘random warbird added willy nilly’. Makes perfect sense to me to have a Hurri. Could even do some carrier ops with the Sea Hurricane. On board the carrier we may find the even more obsolete Swordfish, a torpedo bomber. Another thing I’d happily pay for but I don’t expect to see it. It isn’t as if everything was brand new in ‘44, front-line fighting fit and nothing else was of any use.

How about a Short Sunderland? Could go hunting U-boats and have a lot of sport with one of those. 

DCS is what I go to most if I want to fly. I have other flight sims, IL2 included but I’ve invested more time and a lot more money in DCS. I’m happy we all have so much choice and am constantly knocked out by what’s available to us these days and the quality of it. More modules of all types are more than welcome and if that includes Lancs and the like then I’m well up for it.

 

 

 

[Gunfreak]

7 hours ago, Slippa said:

I can’t imagine limiting DCS WW2 to a 2 or 3 year period, 39-45 isn’t much of a stretch. 

To include a Hurricane, in any of its configurations, would hardly be a ‘random warbird added willy nilly’. Makes perfect sense to me to have a Hurri. Could even do some carrier ops with the Sea Hurricane. On board the carrier we may find the even more obsolete Swordfish, a torpedo bomber. Another thing I’d happily pay for but I don’t expect to see it. It isn’t as if everything was brand new in ‘44, front-line fighting fit and nothing else was of any use.

How about a Short Sunderland? Could go hunting U-boats and have a lot of sport with one of those. 

DCS is what I go to most if I want to fly. I have other flight sims, IL2 included but I’ve invested more time and a lot more money in DCS. I’m happy we all have so much choice and am constantly knocked out by what’s available to us these days and the quality of it. More modules of all types are more than welcome and if that includes Lancs and the like then I’m well up for it.

 

 

 

There’s literally nothing to match the hurricane in the game. It would stick out equally as much as the I16.

Do nobody actually follow DCS development. It moves as a snails pace,  and the WW2 part  even more so, the basic payed asset pack is lacking soo much and almost never gets added to.

It literally took 8 years to get the correct ammo and fixed cooling system  on the P51. So yes. To get any kind of real ww2 flight simulator experience and not "warbird experience" DCS should concentrate on the 44-45 period. The one part of ww2 dcs actually has some stuff for already.  

But hey if ED adds Me110, He111, Me109E/F, stuka and several new ww2 ship types, to create  realistic early war experience.  Then I'll be happy to get the Hurricane. 

But since ED adds 1 AI assets to the ww2 asset pack a year and 1 ww2 flyable plane every 2-3 years, it won't happen any time soon.

 

[NineLine]

14 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

It literally took 8 years to get the correct ammo and fixed cooling system  on the P51.

The Ammo was only requested a little over a year ago, and the cooling system was a very complex redo of the old system for all aircraft, certainly wasnt stated 8 years ago. So while I understand your frustration with the lack of many recent additions, lets not make it sound worse that it is. 

Hurricane and the stuff you list for the most part makes more sense for a BoB era pack which this isnt. Others can add much faster as their models and system and FM modelling is simpler than ours. We have a very small crew for WWII and its more about quality over quantity. 

Lets get back on topic though ok? The topic was about bombers in DCS and while we our selves are not working on a flyable one the Lancaster team is doing great work so far, so keep an eye on that. 

Thanks

[Silver_Dragon]

Oh boy I would love to have the Ju 88 flyable in DCS

I supouse the mosquito module can help to build a light bomber. We have crewable MG/gun turrets from helos, and only need some work to build a bomber / navigator post with bomber sight and controls.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[Walshtimothy]

ai bombers , recon ac , transports are needed for the ww2 period in general . even lower quality will suffice .

[Slippa]

Long range reconnaissance / Early air to surface radar / U boat attack - Short Sunderland.
Squeeze a cheeky bit of the Norwegian fjords on a map and add the Tirptitz since we’re in the neighbourhood. (I’m sort of joking).

Flyable Dak would be nice for transport (what about gliders?) 

I’ll get me coat…

[Mogster]

It’s been said before that the problem with larger multi crew aircraft is the amount of work involved and monetising that. 

Every crew station is a mini cockpit sometimes with its own systems. Some crew stations are in the middle of the aircraft meaning you have to model the whole interior in full detail. Systems are huge on multi engine aircraft, like 2/4 single engined aircraft. You really can’t compare the level of systems modelling in the other sims with what would be expected from a DCS module.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a flyable Lancaster, but I can completely understand why we haven’t even had a flyable multi crew twin yet. The FB Mosquito is really a single crew aircraft for the purposes of the sim.
 

[Tree_Beard]

On 7/23/2023 at 1:46 PM, Mogster said:

Every crew station is a mini cockpit sometimes with its own systems. Some crew stations are in the middle of the aircraft meaning you have to model the whole interior in full detail.

Here's an idea: Model only the pilot's seat in full fidelity. You're free to switch to a gunner's station and shoot MGs out of the plane, but there is no interior modeled, just a crosshair on the screen so you can aim. If you wanted to get REALLY wild, maybe you model a couple low-poly gun barrels sticking out from your POV if you're in a ball turret or something. I bet something like that would be well liked and more than sufficient for 95% of all players. 

[Gunfreak]

10 hours ago, Tree_Beard said:

Here's an idea: Model only the pilot's seat in full fidelity. You're free to switch to a gunner's station and shoot MGs out of the plane, but there is no interior modeled, just a crosshair on the screen so you can aim. If you wanted to get REALLY wild, maybe you model a couple low-poly gun barrels sticking out from your POV if you're in a ball turret or something. I bet something like that would be well liked and more than sufficient for 95% of all players. 

 Except that would never go in DCS, nothing can now be made half assed and low quality. Same  reason we're not gonna see any more FC3 type planes.

[Tree_Beard]

20 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

 Except that would never go in DCS, nothing can now be made half assed and low quality. Same  reason we're not gonna see any more FC3 type planes.

Yep, so now we're stuck with... nothing at all for the foreseeable future. How exciting. 

[Boosterdog]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:58 AM, Tree_Beard said:

Yep, so now we're stuck with... nothing at all for the foreseeable future. How exciting. 

That situation wouldnt change with or without your suggestion. 

[Silver_Dragon]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:58 AM, Tree_Beard said:

Yep, so now we're stuck with... nothing at all for the foreseeable future. How exciting. 

By ED and 3rd parties has no planned WW2 bomber modules on a inmediate future or planned yet, but all has suject to change, and as other "requested" modules has on progress, ED or actual / new 3rd parties can anounce new WW2 modules. Actualy has a interesting team building a Lancaster module, and surely others can appears. Has only a matter of time.

[Slippa]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:58 AM, Tree_Beard said:

Yep, so now we're stuck with... nothing at all for the foreseeable future. How exciting. 

Gutting to read NineLine confirm our only hope for any WWII Bombers is Scooby and the team that are working on the Lanc. Thank God they are. I’d sooner have news I don’t like but is honest than hollow promises to keep me happy though. Glad of that at least.

There’s a fair bit about EDs approach to the WWII side of DCS that seemed odd to me at first though. When I read that most, if not all of that stuff was bought up as a kind of salvage after-thought job, I can see how it doesn’t seem to be bothered about much. That leaves us to rely on well wishers and third-party Devs to enlighten our WWII World. The ED WWII team sound like an elite special forces unit. So elite and so top secret that you wouldn’t know they existed. There isn’t a lot of evidence that they do, vague footprints on long forgotten trails. In production and maintenance terms, Castle Bromwich or Woolston they ain’t. In reality, I bet the team consists of one or two vintage warbird enthusiasts with silver hair, a PC and maybe a dog, a kettle and a pot of tea. That ‘head of WWII operations’ is probably far too busy flying about in the Eagle or Hornet to be messing about modelling eighty odd year old kites anyway. Hope both man and dog are kept well provided with biscuits and frequent walks all the same. BOB at Duxford next week, woof. 

There’s hopefully a Corsair on the way.  Guaranteed to start another thread of whining and frustration at the lack of something comparable to fight with. It can’t be easy trying to build and fill out the thing as well as keeping people sweet. I s’pose we all have to be patient. Like super-elite special forces patient, which I’m not and don’t have time for .

Besides the wish for bombers, I wanna know why I can get two marques of FW190s, two marques of Ponies, Two different Jugs but only one marque of the Spit. It’s an absolute disgrace and everyone should hang there head in… oh, I think DD Fenrir explained how the modelling would be difficult or something but grrrr, still, I want em all.

[Art-J]

^ Ha! The Spit situation is actually a bit closer to Fw-190, 'cause at least both Spits have their own slightly different FMs, so the wing difference is not only cosmetic :).

At the same time both Ponies share the same FM and so do all 3 Jugs it seems (unless that dorsal fin effect is there, but so negligible that it's just difficult to notice).

When the new damage model for warbirds was being developed... and delayed... and delayed... and delayed, and at one point one of community managers spilled the beans by noting that devs involved in the process had to be moved temporarily to... Yak-52 project, it kind of confirmed for me that there is no "ED WWII Team" per se. Or it might exist on paper, but does other guys' laundry as well whenever need arises (which I understand, coming from small aviation company where critical mulit-talented team members usually did anything but what they were officially hired for).

Oh well, it is what it is. I wouldn't count on 3rd parties to help us, as majority of projects announced during last months are jet-planes-oriented. But, after listening to the latest podcast with Wags, maybe there will be a little bit of a shift of resources and effort towards WWII again from ED themselves. We can only wait and see.