Any news on the Mig-23?

[Kaktus]

lol exactly, i feel extremely disapointed, like who enjoys playing dcs today? with nothing but blue force flying.. how do you do campaign.. f15e bombing HAS covering mig15?? lol.. 

 

we need mig23 and mig27, with this setup you can do serious cold war scenarios, bombing, interception, dogfights, disrupting logistics, airfields, etc..

 

but yeah, whatever, do f15e, then f15c, then f16c,d,e,f,g.. 

 

and all this nonsense about RF secrecy preventing such modules its nonsense, this planes are obsolete, and data is open to anyone, especially in the western intelligence community.. we can imagine su24 fencer and mig29A easily be modelled.

i do wonder if a developer mentions its developing a module does this mean it prevents such module to be developed by other company? i think DCS should give clear timeline to produce the title or the "spot" gets lost and other companies get a go at it..otherwise it can "Steal" the spot for many years even though its a dead project. 

 

On other hand i doubt its possible for lets say razbam and deka for instance to develop mig23 at the same time simultenously. so one company taking claim its developing something but its not really should be well not allowed to be frank!

 

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

3 minutes ago, Kaktus said:

 … and all this nonsense about RF secrecy preventing such modules its nonsense, this planes are obsolete, and data is open to anyone, especially in the western intelligence community.. we can imagine su24 fencer and mig29A easily be modelled.

Go tell that to MrP…, not only Russia had that kind of law, they made it even worse not that long ago, including those "obsolete" material you mention. How easy it is to speak when it's not your neck at stake, huh?

[Kaktus]

lol ED is mostly based outside of RF,  i believe HQ is in swiss or somewhere in europe.. so again, what neck is on the line?

 

 

[Silver_Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Kaktus said:

lol ED is mostly based outside of RF,  i believe HQ is in swiss or somewhere in europe.. so again, what neck is on the line?

Meanwhile enterprise CEO and Main Producer has english and Usa, the main develop team, map team and others has russian and Bielorussian members, and the main studios was centred on Moskov and Minsk.

[WarbossPetross]

All right bois, I guess someone's reading us after all!

1 час назад, Silver_Dragon сказал:

RAZBAM Discord Mig-23MLA

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

4 hours ago, Kaktus said:

lol ED is mostly based outside of RF,  i believe HQ is in swiss or somewhere in europe.. so again, what neck is on the line?

That's where the business is legally set in place so where they pay taxes, Mr Nick Grey, owner, resides to my knowledge in the UK, the studios are "mostly", as you say, in Moscow and Minsk… LOL??

Edited April 10, 2023 by Ala13_ManOWar

[Dudikoff]

Is that pod like a guidance pod for Kh-23 missiles (i.e. the Delta-R1M mentioned on Kh-23 Wiki page)? Also, didn't MLA primarily use R-60M/MK missiles?

[Nickkerkwijk]

Hopefully they wont use the current r24r missile, that missile has a shorter range than a R60 ATM. That thing has an insane amount of drag when the booster shuts off

[Zius]

On 4/10/2023 at 7:00 PM, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Go tell that to MrP…, not only Russia had that kind of law, they made it even worse not that long ago, including those "obsolete" material you mention. How easy it is to speak when it's not your neck at stake, huh?

And apparently the law doesn't apply to helicopters.

Anything up to and including MiG-29A is completely "open source" at this point, except *maybe* (but I don't think so) some weapons / sensor systems.

You can even buy a MiG-29A on the internet if you are so inclined (and have some place to put it).

The same applies for any MiG-23 / 27 variant.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Zius

[Temetre]

Am 4.6.2023 um 18:35 schrieb Zius:

And apparently the law doesn't apply to helicopters.

Anything up to and including MiG-29A is completely "open source" at this point, except *maybe* (but I don't think so) some weapons / sensor systems.

You can even buy a MiG-29A on the internet if you are so inclined (and have some place to put it).

The same applies for any MiG-23 / 27 variant.

IIRC the only reason KA-50 is fine is because its a prototype that was only procured in small numbers, and is not used anymore.

And Im sure ED would do a Mig-29 if they could; they probably put a bunch of money into that planes development, until they had to cancel it.

[Kaktus]

On 6/6/2023 at 12:03 AM, Temetre said:

 

On 6/6/2023 at 12:03 AM, Temetre said:

only reason KA-50 is fine is because its a prototype that was only procured in small numbers, and is not used anymore.

 

so, because its prototype its was simulated and no danger of the wrath of the authorities? makes little sense, ..how about simulating pak-fa t-50, its still a prototype to a large extent, with no 5th gen engines and in very limited numbers.. no?..

 

or maybe mig23MP which is was produces in limited numbers and was derived from mig23MS which way export oriented and was delisted of important technologies in fear of going to enemy hands.. so.. still too secret? ..

 

 

ppl, its just a business decision we are seeing and it sucks cuz to me it looks like dcs will be blue force simulation. period.

 

[Fynek]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:26 AM, Kaktus said:

ppl, its just a business decision we are seeing and it sucks cuz to me it looks like dcs will be blue force simulation. period.

 

I doubt it because the devs have expressed in the past that they would love to make a HF Mig-29 and some preliminary work was probably done on it.

I didn't see an official statement stating that they would never do it, did you ? Maybe there is still some hope for an exported version ? 

Personally, I will support the company by buying some maps (and perhaps 1-2 more existing modules I lack)  but I am not interested in more modern blue side modules anymore, so I have high expectations for the Mig-23. Hopefully by then (next year early access ?), prospects for a HF 29 will be brighter.  

I would buy new cold war planes like Drakken, Kfir, or Panavia Tornado but I regret like you that almost all announced future projects are blue side planes. However if it is legal reasons blocking the devs, there is not much we can do. 

They probably do prioritize pleasing the western audience for commercial reasons (like a certain other sim who went for other theatres instead of finishing the one they were supposed to fully represent)  but on the other hand, the Mig-29 would certainly sell very well, maybe not as much as the F15 SE or F16 but would still make decent sales figures in my opinion.      

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@Kaktus Keep in mind that it really was a different time when ED was originally collecting data to make Ka-50

[Raisuli]

Really hate to change the subject, but at a local air museum where they're working on a MiG-23 today.  Ended up in the restoration area, originally to look at the intakes, which are very similar to the F4's, and ended up helping with the exterior labeling, some of which is badly faded.  We did find a few letters that were missing on their exiting records, and they want to get those stencils right.

Just wondering if RazBam has detailed enough photos for their livery creation to have some of those labels, which might make recreating them a little bit easier.

[Avimimus]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:32 PM, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@Kaktus Keep in mind that it really was a different time when ED was originally collecting data to make Ka-50

Exactly. It was a time when Kamov had recently offered a customised Ka-50 derivative to a NATO member state, and France was building two helicopter carriers for Russia. A different time with different anti-espionage laws. I I recall correctly, there was also a deal worked out for Blackshark - and I gather the development of the sim was actively encouraged/supported.

[WarbossPetross]

21 час назад, Avimimus сказал:

Exactly. It was a time when Kamov had recently offered a customised Ka-50 derivative to a NATO member state, and France was building two helicopter carriers for Russia. A different time with different anti-espionage laws. I I recall correctly, there was also a deal worked out for Blackshark - and I gather the development of the sim was actively encouraged/supported.

Guess what, the Shark module was used for cadet training, much like the M2000C. Maybe still is. That's what they made it for since Ka-50 is not on active duty anyway, so they figured they have nothing to lose if they make some money and PR off of it.

[FlankerKiller]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:42 PM, Fynek said:

I doubt it because the devs have expressed in the past that they would love to make a HF Mig-29 and some preliminary work was probably done on it.

I didn't see an official statement stating that they would never do it, did you ? Maybe there is still some hope for an exported version ? 

Personally, I will support the company by buying some maps (and perhaps 1-2 more existing modules I lack)  but I am not interested in more modern blue side modules anymore, so I have high expectations for the Mig-23. Hopefully by then (next year early access ?), prospects for a HF 29 will be brighter.  

I would buy new cold war planes like Drakken, Kfir, or Panavia Tornado but I regret like you that almost all announced future projects are blue side planes. However if it is legal reasons blocking the devs, there is not much we can do. 

They probably do prioritize pleasing the western audience for commercial reasons (like a certain other sim who went for other theatres instead of finishing the one they were supposed to fully represent)  but on the other hand, the Mig-29 would certainly sell very well, maybe not as much as the F15 SE or F16 but would still make decent sales figures in my opinion.      

I suspect it would sell better. As nice as it would be to have Mig-29S, or a mid 2000's SU-27. Or even better an SU-30. I personally would love to see an SU-30MKI above all. Get a little Jeff vs Suikhoi action. If one is ever possible it would probably be the MKI, same for the 29 they hinted that a G might be possible. But China and Russia are vary tight on what kinds of jets can be fully simulated. As radar and other systems get more fidelity the chances of seeing an post Soviet Red jets gose down. It's sucks for all involved. I suspect an SU-30 would out sell the Mud Hen, same for an early J-10. So that is a lot of mony that ED and Deka are missing out on. A KA-52 with Petrovich would go like hotcakes. It's just simply not possible for the foreseeable future. 

Now the cold war is possible, and looks to be coming. Lots of modules in in decent levels of development ether teased, announced, or released. It's an interesting style of air warfare. Early Guided weapons, early Fox-3s, mixed in with pure Fox-2 dogfighters with rudimentary RWR and countermeasures. Lots of. Fox-1, and lot's of merges. Lots of historical match ups. It's going to be a blast. But I do wish we had more to go against then just the Jeff, or low fidelity Mig-29S and J-11 for the mid-90's to 2010ish fights. So yeah my personal wish list for the late era would be 

SU-30MKI

MIG-29S

J-10A 

Mig-31 go fast or go home 

M2000-5 it could wind up on ether side. 

KA-52 with Petrovich. 

It's unlikely any of that is happening in my lifetime, unfortunately. I suspect any of those would sell at least as well as any Blue side 4th gen you can think of. I suspect that SU-30 would out sell the Eurofighter and Mud Hen combined. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by FlankerKiller

[jonny415]

SU-30MKI is the main aircraft for India so most likely not going to happen but would love to have it in the game even if they did low fidelity model

The most recent it took part was in the 2019 Balakot airstrike it's interesting to read up on where F-16 and JF-17 face off against SU-30mki and Mig-21 poor mig-21 tho 

wish we had a map of that region 

[Silver_Dragon]

Someone need remember RAZBAM has build a Mig-23MLA by the "Cuban team", the same with build the Mig-19P. They has build a export Mig-23, no a Soviet Mig-23 on the PVO.

17 minutes ago, jonny415 said:

SU-30MKI is the main aircraft for India so most likely not going to happen but would love to have it in the game even if they did low fidelity model

The most recent it took part was in the 2019 Balakot airstrike it's interesting to read up on where F-16 and JF-17 face off against SU-30mki and Mig-21 poor mig-21 tho 

wish we had a map of that region 

A Indian Su-30MKI has on the same situation with a moder red fighter, has a wall of secret over there, remember Dekka intent build a Chinnesse Su-30 (MKK) and desist by the restrictions and end builded a J-8PP.... remember but someone (example, the old Tu-22 project, HB F-14D restricted versions or a F/A-18E block 2), dont like go to jail about build a entretainment product, broken security laws only to get a hardcore module), and ED and others always need to move on a line to dont get a "Cease and Desist", "a legal citation", "or a military court".

About last develop info, check here.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[Кош]

В 26.07.2023 в 00:32, Silver_Dragon сказал:

They has build a export Mig-23, no a Soviet Mig-23 on the PVO.

They build a Soviet VVS 23MLA (Modernised, Lightweight, N003 Amethyst radar) using Cuban one as a reference which only difference is transponder.

PVO 23P has a bit more modern and PVO datalink compatible N006 radar and other model of datalink for the PVO grid. VVS has datalink too just different standart. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Кош

[Mars Exulte]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:26 PM, Kaktus said:

so, because its prototype its was simulated and no danger of the wrath of the authorities?

 It being a prototype has nothing to do with it. Nor do production numbers, I don't know why people tend to bring that stuff up all the time, it doesn't matter.

What matters is whether the government is willing to allow it. #1 copyright and trademark. Use somebody's name, need their permission. #2 when gathering military documents you need to be very careful (me owning a F-16 manual is perfectly fine. Me emailing it to you is a felony) #3 when closely modeling real world weapons tecchnology the respective governments can object (this has happened before and not only with Russia around here) because it is military and they do not really care about us dorks and our enthusiast hobby.

On 6/8/2023 at 7:26 PM, Kaktus said:

makes little sense

That's because it doesn't, and because that's not what has happened. 

On 6/8/2023 at 7:26 PM, Kaktus said:

how about simulating pak-fa t-50, its still a prototype to a large extent, with no 5th gen engines and in very limited numbers.. no?

 It's not got anything to do with prototype or not. It's got to do with political climate. Again, these huge entities do not care about our hobby or if their laws inconvenience us.

On 6/8/2023 at 7:26 PM, Kaktus said:

ppl, its just a business decision

 Correct, a business decision to avoid getting employees harassed or imprisoned. At present, you can literally be arrested for holding up a blank sheet of paper imitating a poster. It is reasonable to assume they are more strict about military information, and the law people referring to is readily available for your reading.

On 6/8/2023 at 7:26 PM, Kaktus said:

we are seeing and it sucks cuz to me it looks like dcs will be blue force simulation. period.

   BluFor is generally more open to all of this, with exceptions however.

 Seriously, every few weeks somebody like you acts like nobody has ever thought about any of this or asked these questions before.

 

 Oh and lastly, the universe is not static and things change. Just because a certain thing was done 20 years ago is irrelevant.

[MAXsenna]

7 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Seriously, every few weeks somebody like you acts like nobody has ever thought about any of this or asked these questions before.

Google is just a fantasy... 

[apolloace]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:46 AM, addman said:

Found this at the Russian-speaking forums:

Posted this monday. Strike Eagle in all glory but these screenshots are what gets me going. Soviet 60s/70s tech at it's "finest".

 

No radar display??

[CrazyGman]

16 hours ago, apolloace said:

No radar display??

It's a later series MLA MiG 23. 

The ML and later varients have the radar displayed on the hud directly, like in the MiG-29 and Su-27,

[Pavlin_33]

Didn't the MiG-23 turn like crap IRL?

I am trying to figure out what all hype is about. Maybe I am missing something, please forgive if so.