YoYo Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Looks like they not tested default "system" for VR, so SteamVR. No any info in "known issues" about that MT version doesnt work with SteamVR. They tested only OpenXR? Any idea about SteamVR? Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryzor Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 I would also know. I´m using a Steam VR native device (Valve index) a lot of stutters with MT openxr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sile Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 You mix up API and Runtime. OpenXR is an API. You can use either WMR or SteamVR as a runtime with OpenXR. Set the active runtime either in SteamVR Settings (Developer) or OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality (not Toolkit!!). What u set last is what is being used. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoYo Posted March 10, 2023 Author Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Sile said: Set the active runtime either in SteamVR Settings (Developer) or OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality (not Toolkit!!). ? After all, it's not about running on OpenXR by SteamVR. I personally dont like OpenXR. We wrote here about SteamVR without forced to run OpenXR so as default DCS SC version. Edited March 10, 2023 by YoYo Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sile Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) Just tried to help you run the SteamVR Runtime with the current MT DCS Version by OpenXR -> SteamVR. I thought that's what you wanted. Sorry that i missunderstood you. But i see u want to run OpenVR -> SteamVR. No clue, then. Maybe try " --force_enable_VR --force_steam_VR" but this crashed DCS for me during initial loading into the main menu. Edited March 10, 2023 by Sile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=37.Sqn= Mjugen Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 I wold also like to use SteamVR with MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonvise Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 The same, with bin-mt executable, the option --force_enable_VR launch DCS in openXR; using --force_steam_VR hangs during launch (at 14-16% for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyave Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 I've always used SteamVR with Standalone DCS and after the update SteamVR doesn't open and if I open it DCS force closes. I had to dig through some old threads to find out that I needed to go into Developer Options in SteamVR and set SteamVR as the default for OpenXR runtime. Seems to work as it did before. Not sure if this negates some/all of the benefit of the patch though? I would hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzle Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) I was able to start SteamVR by forcing a startup option through the Steam GUI. Then launching it with the MT version in the steam launch button. Edited March 10, 2023 by Sizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) I was able to get it running by manually setting SteamVR as the runtime under the SteamVR Developer settings, using OXR Toolkit companion app to disable OXR, and adding the command lines --force_enable_VR --force_steam_VR to the MT DCS.exe shortcut Edit: You don't need the command lines, just run the shortcut as is. Edited March 11, 2023 by July Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyave Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 42 minutes ago, crazyave said: I've always used SteamVR with Standalone DCS and after the update SteamVR doesn't open and if I open it DCS force closes. I had to dig through some old threads to find out that I needed to go into Developer Options in SteamVR and set SteamVR as the default for OpenXR runtime. Seems to work as it did before. Not sure if this negates some/all of the benefit of the patch though? I would hope not. I take this back, I seem to have broken things now, DCS won't start. woohoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryzor Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 2 hours ago, July said: I was able to get it running by manually setting SteamVR as the runtime under the SteamVR Developer settings, using OXR Toolkit companion app to disable OXR, and adding the command lines --force_enable_VR --force_steam_VR to the MT DCS.exe shortcut. I cannot start with --force_steam_VR in MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoYo Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Gryzor said: I cannot start with --force_steam_VR in MT I added it to bug section: Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) MT with OpenXR over SteamVR running fine here. I use a shortcut with the line "...your path...\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR First i start SteamVR then i click desktop mode on the dashboard and launch DCS with the shortcut. Be aware that OpenVR as an API is EOL, same with Oculus's LibOVR. OpenXR will be the one and only VR API in the future. Edited March 11, 2023 by RealDCSpilot i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, PSVR2, Pico 4 Ultra, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoYo Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said: MT with OpenXR over SteamVR running fine here. I use a shortcut with the line "...your path...\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR First i start SteamVR then i click desktop mode on the dashboard and launch DCS with the shortcut. Be aware that OpenVR as an API is EOL, same with Oculus's LibOVR. OpenXR will be the one and only VR API in the future. Forced OpenXR works, it isnt a problem but not all like it (like me). I have better visual results with OpenVR, so like OB DCS single core version. OpenXR has motion reprojection issue, very visible ghosting in DCS so its not Solution for DCS MT too if you have MR=on still. Edited March 11, 2023 by YoYo Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=37.Sqn= Mjugen Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 OpenXR has motion reprojection issue, very visible ghosting in DCS +1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoYo Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, =37.Sqn= Mjugen said: +1 Yes, SteamVR+OpenVR is still better at it. Latency is much lower so less artefacts at all. If you're not using MR, OpenXR does quite well, but I don't have a solid 90fps and everything else stutters. If someone has a low refresh rate, maybe it will be ok (e.g. 60), but already at 90 it is stutter as hell just above the ground. Edited March 11, 2023 by YoYo Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 You mean the G2 and it's WMR runtime has motion reprojection issues with OpenXR. I'm on a Pico 4 with Virtual Desktop and it's SSW reprojection system works flawlessly. i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, PSVR2, Pico 4 Ultra, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartsblade Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 @BIGNEWY I am a Valve Index user and I am seeing the same thing. If you launch DCS with Multi-Threading it will always Launch the in OpenXR and not OpenVR. I have four separate Shortcuts to run and test DCS Open Beta in it's current various flavors: The Standard Open Beta Shortcut: "D:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin\DCS_updater.exe" Open Beta with OpenXR: "D:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR Open Beta with Multi-Threading: "D:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" Open Beta with Multi-Threading with OpenXR: "D:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR Here are the Logs for each. You can clearly see in the Logs that the Original Open Beta Shortcut is the only one to Launch in OpenVR. I hope this info helps shed a light on the situation. Standard Open Beta dcsOB.log Open Beta with OpenXR dcsOBXR.log Open Beta with Multi-Threading dcsMT.log Open Beta with Multi-Threading with OpenXR dcsMTXR.log 2 AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core Processor | Asus TUFF nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Asus ROG Crosshair VII Dark Hero | 64GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4-3600 RAM | Windows 10 Pro x64 | Virpil MT-50 CM2 Throttle | Virpil Alpha on WarBRD base | Virpil Ace 1 Rudder Pedals | Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant (x2) |Acer x34 P 3440 x 1440 | Pimax Crystal Light VR | DCS on NVME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temetre Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 vor 23 Stunden schrieb Hartsblade: I am a Valve Index user and I am seeing the same thing. If you launch DCS with Multi-Threading it will always Launch the in OpenXR and not OpenVR. And im pretty sure that is intentional, OpenXR is the new Tech and DCS devs want to go for it in the feature. Not that it seems like a great idea, considering I also got those horrible stutter (+reprojection?) issues with OpenXR+MT as well, its unplayable. No clue where exactly the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos_Out Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) OpenXR has been nothing but a pain for me. I gave up on MSFS 2020 because i couldn't get it to not stutter in the cockpit, even with EVERYTHING set to low (including res). I tested it a little bit in DCS when it went native but instantly noped out of it since it was stuttering vs my buttery smooth and clear OpenVR experience. I can't for the life of me understand why so much focus is being put on it when the entire community is dependent on one person and their 3rd party app (XR toolkit) for OpenXR to really shine. Especially now, when if I recall correctly, the dev has stated they need to take a break due to personal issues or something. The vast majority of the community needs motion reprojection for VR to function and/or be clear enough to be enjoyable, and it's been stated that the MR of OpenXR tools and OpenXR toolkit (great naming btw) is very subpar compared to what the steam client offers. I've been using Skate Zilla's DCS Updater/Launcher to launch the DCS standalone version with Steam VR, but if that ever breaks I'll simply move back to the Steam version of DCS. Until I can use that utility to launch the MT DCS into Steam VR, or any method I suppose, while being able to use OpenVR, I won't touch it. Can you tell I'm frustrated? Edited March 18, 2023 by Chaos_Out 5900x | 3090 | HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 I was never that big on the Open XR combined with Open XR Toolkit that so many seemed to be happy with. After DCS introduced the new MT with this last update, I set it up and gave it another whirl and am very pleased with it. I have an Aero and am not that fond of their Motion Reprojection implementation so I am running without that now anyway. But yeah I get where you are coming from. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom711 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 @Chaos_Out What are your specs? What are your settings in the OXR toolkit? I am sure, there is a solution to your problem. Most people, including me, are very happy with OXR. vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryzor Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 OpenXR toolkit is compatible with Valve Index? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyave Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 I wonder if certain settings in SteamVR+OpenVR perform much better than OpenXR. I'm using one of the highest end systems that can be built (4090+13900k+64GB RAM) and I'm seeing a big drop in performance with OpenXR + MT. I can't use fpsVR anymore to measure as that doesn't work with SteamVR+OpenXR. Using the built-in performance measurement it shows about the same numbers, but I'm just seeing a lot more stuttering and poor performance in the headset. I have my system tuned for the higher FPS vs visuals. I run 90fps (< 10ms) about 90% of the time with SteamVR+OpenVR. Now what I get is what looks like about barely 30-40fps (15-20ms+) with OpenXR, despite what the built-in performance counters say. I was running SteamVR+OpenVR at 70% resolution to get that good 90fps experience. I don't use reprojection either. When I switch to OpenXR + MT, SteamVR no longer controls the resolution, is it just running 100% then? If I had a way to adjust the resolution to match OpenXR maybe I could make a fairer comparison and get a better experience. Is there a way to do that? What other settings are lost in this change that need to be moved over to OpenXR? Since ED didn't mention being forced to use OpenXR for MT, nor any of the caveats of that change, I'm left in the dark here guessing about how to make my system perform using tools that weren't mentioned in the changelog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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