fixed George doesn't understand VRS

[Wostg]

CPG bounces me off the ground daily. AT first I thought it must have been a known bug and they'd made George-induced-landings damage-proof to compensate but it definitely pulverises the cannon.

[Guest]

I've almost stopped enjoying this module.  It was bad enough that I had to keep jumping into the front seat to engage targets properly, but now I've even lost that due to George not being able to hold the same hover I put it in for him to keep.  No instructions given to alter anything. - (Although I have tried this to try and help).  Surely the engine can see when the sink rate is increasing and do something about it?  

I understand that new modules bring in the bucks.  But if two years down the track a module still isn't finished/fit for purpose, why should I continue to shell out big dollars for a repeat of this experience with another module?

ED- Nobody is expecting miracles, nor even a 1-1 copy of the real thing.  But the basics are just that.  

[Flappie]

The next OB should come with a fix for this issue.

[Guest]

Thanks Flappie!  Great news.

However- I got lucky and read a post by Lord Vader.  If you engage Attitude and Altitude hold before you handover to George, he hovers just fine!  I tried this a few times yesterday, and he managed it perfectly  

Strangely, he disengages the auto hold modes the instant he takes control, but who cares if you're not sinking into the trees! 

Hopefully ED will make this gem of information widely known soon.

Have a good one.

'52

[corbu1]

Hopefully with today‘s patch we will see improvements…it‘s on the patch list.

[petsild]

 

On the second attempt to stop, I fell into the VRS, George is still dangerous.

[Oceandar]

I have not tried with the latest update but you need to gradually ask him to slow down first then he can perfectly hover. Like from 120...90 wait few sec....70 wait few sec...40 wait.....then hover

[petsild]

 

It's just happening from the slowest speed.

[Raptor9]

I can't determine what happened in your gameplay, but if the aircraft is too heavy for the air density, George won't be able to prevent a vertical descent rate from building.

There are times the aircraft may not have the power-to-weight ratio to hover and you should keep his speed setting at 40 knots or higher.

[petsild]

I fly with no ammo in the gun and only 70% fuel, that's not my case.

[Flappie]

45 minutes ago, petsild said:

I fly with no ammo in the gun and only 70% fuel, that's not my case.

Please attach a short track showing George poor flying skills so devs can see it and make him better.

[petsild]

It behaves randomly, I crash at the end of a short recording.

VRS.trk

[Flappie]

Thank you. Maybe you should have him fly a bit faster when he's loaded with 16 radar missiles and 71% fuel. That might reduce the chances of VRS.

Anyway, it seems he's slowing down too fast considering the weight he's carrying. I'll ask devs if he can be tweaked a bit more.

 

[petsild]

I remember that before the update, VRS with a much lighter machine was a common thing and that's why I didn't use AI.

If it helps I'm in favor of adjusting the speed. thank you for responding.

[SloppyDog]

On 7/23/2023 at 6:44 PM, Gunslinger52 said:

Thanks Flappie!  Great news.

However- I got lucky and read a post by Lord Vader.  If you engage Attitude and Altitude hold before you handover to George, he hovers just fine!  I tried this a few times yesterday, and he managed it perfectly  

Strangely, he disengages the auto hold modes the instant he takes control, but who cares if you're not sinking into the trees! 

Hopefully ED will make this gem of information widely known soon.

Have a good one.

'52

Oh yeah. The old "catch ya" when changing seats.  Once in a stable hover, I jump into the front seat, with my finger already on the George button. As soon the helo starts wobbling around, I call up the George menu. Unfortunately, it does not maintain the same attitude you were in after changing seats. 

Anyway, but after last patch (DCS 2.8.7.42853) George seems to be having gone to a new training cycle and came back a new pilot.   

[thekow]

I am not sure if it's the same thing but it seems a little worse after the update all i wanted to when i am in the cpg seat ask geroge to go from 40-0 or 70-0 to hover and nearly every time he will stop but then it will just go into VRS and drop out of the sky. It seems to be if you are under 600ft but it also does it when you ask to reduce alititude more than 100ft at a time.

As i said i just a newbie at helicopters in general but it's a little annoying to ask for a little slow down and you have to scramble to try to save the aircraft once it goes VRS most of the time being unsuccessful. I also had an issue where i was in the pilot seat and kept asking george to find AI enemies which were infront of us but never finding anything. The were 100% in range because i could see them from the seat. No more than 2km away.

[shagrat]

I wonder if it would be a good idea to adjust George so he is basically flying the aircraft in a way to NOT crash/die, assuming he wouldn't deliberately follow orders that would kill the aircraft.

Instead he should correct the order to safe the aircraft and inform the gunner.

Example, rather than slow down into VRS with a way too heavy aircraft or in low density air, he should keep the required speed and say something like "Unable, not enough power!" or "Can't hover, we're too heavy!" as a feedback.

[petsild]

I use a reliable method manual hover and then switching to the shooter position.

Sometimes Apache starts slowly losing altitude, but it is not a vertex, the machine does not respond to the command to change altitude?

[KiwiOz]

flying at 60km at 50m 

moved to cpg seat 

control wheel set to zero

apache lost control fall to ground

 

bug still there

[admiki]

16 minutes ago, KiwiOz said:

flying at 60km at 50m 

moved to cpg seat 

control wheel set to zero

apache lost control fall to ground

 

bug still there

Temp, alt, weight, wind?

Any of those factors could influence the outcome. You have track file?

[shagrat]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb KiwiOz:

flying at 60km at 50m 

moved to cpg seat 

control wheel set to zero

apache lost control fall to ground

 

bug still there

Did you check the PERF page and performed a hover check, during start up?

Could you get the aircraft in a stable hover with pulling less or up to 90% on the collective, doing it yourself, in the same environment?

This would ensure it's not because of weight/power limitations (16 Hellfires, 100% fuel and gun ammo at 2000 ft in 28°C), but actually a bug with George.

 

[Shrike88]

Several frustrating events the last couple nights on servers, trying to get back into the Apache in the CP/G seat however, started noticing George likes to still rock the preverbal bounce in H/B mode less than 40 knts when I hand it over.  Seems he cannot turn and hover, along with other issues.  Weight not really an issue 70% and full arm, no wind.

Researched and found this topic so I am glad its not just me.  I see posts from March / May from 9L of last year saying updates and fixes are coming, however still seems to be an issue.  Any update on this or clarity besides the "its coming" M.O.     

I understand we could fly empty birds or just stabilize the hover then hand it over, however have had instances of being in a hover hold and handing it over to to George and issue still replicating itself over complex terrain where he cannot smooth the RadAlt in hover.

Please address ED or just demote George back to E2 and back to the service line.  Dude doesn't deserve Warrant Officer wings.   It seems still not to be addressed like stated above with the last patch. 

EDIT:  Tried again with single tasking george.  Still countless issues in terrain entering VRS.


 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Shrike88

[travissgrey]

Started flying the Apache a lot more, finally.

And i can confirm everything already said above. George really like to go into VRS. Happened twice for me today, always when i told him to loose some altitude and slowing down at the same time. 
And i was far from being overweight, only 4x Hellfires, 2 per wing.

Hope that this will be fixed. The Apache is hella cool but George deserve to be grounded or return to flight school immediately. 

[AlphaOneSix]

4 hours ago, travissgrey said:

The Apache is hella cool but George deserve to be grounded or return to flight school immediately. 

George is following his training, he can't help that the ED AH-64D enters VRS way too easily.

[Shrike88]

Well hopefully this gets addressed AGAIN on this next big patch and is fixed once and for all.  Also noticed last night George doesn't like transitions with really large amounts of wind. ~25kts of wind and he just wigs out.  

Fingers crossed.