Today's patch added the entire shaders folder to IC, effectively blocking every quality of life mod that accessed that folder

[silverdevil]

On 7/18/2023 at 6:49 AM, cfrag said:

turning final in the Tiger for landing

i mean since you are on final, why not jettison the canopy /s (there is some sarcasm)

[Dangerzone]

11 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Then you need to get your sarcasm meter checked, since that was quite obviously sarcastic (and no, no hiding behind Poe's law, it doesn't apply here).

To be fair, I've seen cfrag interact with enough topics before to understand why he was questioning whether that was sarcasm or not. Nothing against your sarcasm, just be aware that some people here have had some very interesting arguments put forward in the past that have some of us hesitant to assume now. 

Plus, I've laughed a few times thinking my wife was being sarcastic when she wasn't to know it's a bad mistake to make. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Dangerzone

[Dragon1-1]

4 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Plus, I've laughed a few times thinking my wife was being sarcastic when she wasn't to know it's a bad mistake to make. 

In most cases the other option is worse. If you assume everything is serious, you come off as a humorless stick in the mud. If you assume everything is sarcastic/joking, if you're right, you're right, and if you're wrong, it's hard to find a better zinger anyway.  

[MAXsenna]

7 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

To be fair, I've seen cfrag interact with enough topics before to understand why he was questioning whether that was sarcasm or not. Nothing against your sarcasm, just be aware that some people here have had some very interesting arguments put forward in the past that have some of us hesitant to assume now. 

Plus, I've laughed a few times thinking my wife was being sarcastic when she wasn't to know it's a bad mistake to make. 

 

I wasn't sure myself until cfrag asked.  

And this being an international forum with various language skills, typing skills. Not using punctuation or capitalization. Typing on cellphones with autocorrect, apologies, autoguess. Things can and will sometimes get lost in translation very quickly. Sometimes I'm sure people misinterpret on purpose to win an argument, while they're probably not. The best option is of course to ask politely. No harm in that. 

Cheers! 

[tacts.zeagle]

On 7/20/2023 at 1:36 PM, Why485 said:

It's both good and realistic for people to not be able to see out their planes. People who run on low settings not having clean canopies is immersive because it's like not paying the maintenance crews for your planes enough, so they don't have the budget to clean the windows. It doesn't make sense to make this optional.

 

You guys really need to get out and do some real world flying. I think you would be amazed at the turbulence on a summer day, the reflections on a curved canopy, the shadows in the cockpit and the bugs....I prefer to keep the reflections and the dirty glass. And yes, Virginia, weather is a factor on just about every flight. Also, planes do shake on the ground when taxiing and they do shake quite a lot in turbulence.  Don't even start with the "baked in reflections" argument.  I have done my fair amount of GLSL and before that OpenGL programming. The statements about "baked in" stuff have no relevance.   

Another thing, we used to put Pledge (lemon is best) on the Cardinal windshield to help fill in the micro scratches. When the sun is just right you can see thousands of these little scratches on plexiglass.

[cfrag]

2 hours ago, tacts.zeagle said:

I prefer to keep the reflections and the dirty glass.

That's good for you, and I wish you all the best with the current situation. The great advantage of sims is that we now have the opportunity to make some bad things optional. For example, if nature calls when I fly sim, I can hit 'pause'. When I'm in a real cockpit, the rest rooms are located at both ends of the flight. It's maybe silly, but I like amenities like taking advantage of tech in sims.

This highly annoying and abnormally opaque effect in the Tiger could be made optional by means of a simple shader fix. That currently is no longer an option. All we are requesting that it be made optional again (for example by providing a slider in the Tiger's, Hip's and Huey's Special tab). It's not really a question of realism (although the excessive reflections in Tiger and Mi-8 are clearly bugs). It's one of quality of life. 

2 hours ago, tacts.zeagle said:

And yes, Virginia, weather is a factor on just about every flight.

And isn't it great that we, as players, can control the weather in DCS? That is so much better than being dependent on the outside world. No matter how bad the weather outside, I can fly my plane in DCS in the weather that I want. I like that, unrealistic as it seems - it makes DCS a better game.  

[draconus]

2 hours ago, cfrag said:

This highly annoying and abnormally opaque effect in the Tiger could be made optional by means of a simple shader fix. That currently is no longer an option.

Wasn't it concluded that it can be solved by a shadow setting you refuse to set?

[cfrag]

20 minutes ago, draconus said:

Wasn't it concluded that it can be solved by a shadow setting you refuse to set?

No, it was acknowledged to be a known bug, please see NineLine's comment.

Edited August 4, 2023 by cfrag

[tacts.zeagle]

I fly the F-5 and the Mi8 all the time. I have never had an issue with seeing out of the aircraft.  Are you talking about the gunsight in the F-5? You do know that this is a very thick piece of glass? 

[cfrag]

31 minutes ago, tacts.zeagle said:

Are you talking about the gunsight in the F-5?

No, I'm talking about this:

but I had to delete the image I added into this thread before because I'm running out of space for posting in these forums.

I hope you agree that this is a bit annoying. ED have acknowledged this bug and are thankfully in the process of correcting it. I'll delete above image soon, as my remaining quota is slim. 

[Slippa]

Not sure about the picture limiter thing but will see if I can post your pic so others can see what you’re talking about.

looks like you flew through a sewer pipe and dried it in the sun. Could probably do with some air freshener in the cockpit as well as fixing the shading and glare.

 

[cfrag]

3 minutes ago, Slippa said:

Not sure about the picture limiter thing but will see if I can post your pic so others can see what you’re talking about.

Thank you!

3 minutes ago, Slippa said:

Could probably do with some air freshener in the cockpit

Indeed. But when I use the air freshener mod, I also fail IC  

btw, @tacts.zeagle - how on earth are you getting that heavily modded Tiger to fly on servers with IC turned on? Some of your instruments look highly irregular for a F-5E

[NineLine]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:44 AM, cfrag said:

Certainly, it's easily reproducible, total track time is only a few seconds. Below please find the track. When the effect sets in, I hit active pause and move my head before I end the mission.

 

opaque tiger2.trk 386.29 kB · 3 downloads

Sorry for the late reply.

I am unable to reproduce this. When I watch your track it seems fine. 

 

 

[cfrag]

13 hours ago, NineLine said:

I am unable to reproduce this. When I watch your track it seems fine. 

What can I say other than that id does happen to me, hence the screen shot. It appears to be a shader bug, and it affects only some planes, especially hard the Tiger. Since it appears to be a shader bug, it is heavily dependent on internal settings, which I'm not privy to. Here is a a screenshot of my settings that may help you home in on the issue. There is speculation that this may be tied to the "shadows 1" setting (I'll try to confirm this by trying different shadow settings to see if it affects the replay's outcome). 

CONFIRMED: The bug is tied to a setting of "Shadows = Flat Only", which I use to get better frame rates in VR. In the replay, the windows will become opaque when the tiger turns through heading 0 (north)

please be advised that I'll remove above image soon due to posting size restrictions. 

[tacts.zeagle]

That looks like a video card issue to me. I have not seen that in the F-5 on my system. It definitely looks bad

 

On 8/5/2023 at 7:46 AM, cfrag said:

Thank you!

Indeed. But when I use the air freshener mod, I also fail IC  

btw, @tacts.zeagle - how on earth are you getting that heavily modded Tiger to fly on servers with IC turned on? Some of your instruments look highly irregular for a F-5E

That's a real life F-5 ... lol

[cfrag]

43 minutes ago, tacts.zeagle said:

That's a real life F-5 ... lol

Thanks - and apologies for being slow on the uptake. The screenshot that you kindly posted a few days ago shows a cockpit with some very different avionics to what I see when I enter "my" Tiger: you appear to have a square MFD depicting what looks to me a moving map, where I have a round oscilloscope-like radar, and your UHF radio appears to have digital controls and read-outs, which are analog in mine.

So my question is: I'm flying the Tiger in DCS unmodified. It appears that your version isn't plain vanilla, but an enhancement of the module that I have. What would I need to do (since your version looks dfintely interesting) to get similar avionics? More to the point, since many third-party changes to existing modules fail the integrity check when you try to fly a non-vanilla version of a module on a server: does that version that you are showing pass integrity checks? This is important to me because I often fly on servers that have IC turned on (and this is pretty much one of the reasons that this thread exists: it's the IC that has changed and forces people like me to revert to vanilla shaders). 

Edited August 8, 2023 by cfrag

[draconus]

45 minutes ago, cfrag said:

The screenshot that you kindly posted a few days ago shows a cockpit with some very different avionics to what I see when I enter "my" Tiger...

He said it was RL F-5. The image taken from internet, not from DCS. I thought you were kidding or using sarcasm

Edited August 8, 2023 by draconus

[cfrag]

1 minute ago, draconus said:

The image taken from internet not from DCS.

Thank you - I missed that important detail. 

[Art-J]

20 hours ago, tacts.zeagle said:

That looks like a video card issue to me. I have not seen that in the F-5 on my system. It definitely looks bad

As noted above, it's an issue with flat shadows option. I've seen the same problem being reported in Mi-8 as well. Might be worth checking out other ex-Belsimtek modules to see if they're also affected.

[Pavlin_33]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:46 PM, tacts.zeagle said:

You guys really need to get out and do some real world flying. I think you would be amazed at the turbulence on a summer day, the reflections on a curved canopy, the shadows in the cockpit and the bugs....I prefer to keep the reflections and the dirty glass. And yes, Virginia, weather is a factor on just about every flight. Also, planes do shake on the ground when taxiing and they do shake quite a lot in turbulence.  Don't even start with the "baked in reflections" argument.  I have done my fair amount of GLSL and before that OpenGL programming. The statements about "baked in" stuff have no relevance.   

Another thing, we used to put Pledge (lemon is best) on the Cardinal windshield to help fill in the micro scratches. When the sun is just right you can see thousands of these little scratches on plexiglass.

This ^
This is what a simulator should be about. Bringing us closer to what PPL in RL experience. That's the core concept of a simulator.
 

[Bosun]

@NineLine 

You mentioned many replies ago that the team was working on internal spotting and dots.  

Any word on this?  Also - any word on 4k resolution parity?  Currently, as we know, those playing at lower resolutions will have 'larger' dots that allow them to spot from further away.  Being that many monitors now, and cards run at native 4k dimensions, it'd be good to finally be able to use that 4k to properly compete, either by bringing 4k dots up to the similar physical screen sizes of lower resolution dots - or - to simply start having lower resolution dots come into vision in shorter ranges.  


Also - regarding cockpit scratches - I'll upload a file when I get home this evening.  On the F-14, F-5, and a few others, the 'scratches' on the glass are so dense and patterned, you cannot see out of the cockpit.  

Without the cockpit glass mod, in low-angle sunlight, all I can see are fat, densely packed, patterned scratches.  Either it is a bug, or we need to reconsider how to texture those effects to better mimic real cockpit scratches.  As others have said - you can see thousands of them...but...not like this.  

Also, my eyes are capable many times of focusing past a lot of the scratches on up close glass.  I can't do that in game.  Is that something that could be modeled into texture asset? When you lean in close to the glass, or use the "Zoom" feature, could it apply a blur and transparency shift to those scratches, to mimic 'focusing' your eyes past those close up assets?  Similar to a depth of field effect, sort of.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Bosun

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Bosun said:

I can't do that in game.

You can in VR.

[Bosun]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

You can in VR.

The scratches blur and become more transparent when you 'lean in' in VR?  I'm playing on a monitor.  If that's true, I wonder why this feature isn't implemented for regular graphics?

[Bosun]

4 hours ago, Bosun said:

@NineLine 

You mentioned many replies ago that the team was working on internal spotting and dots.  

Any word on this?  Also - any word on 4k resolution parity?  Currently, as we know, those playing at lower resolutions will have 'larger' dots that allow them to spot from further away.  Being that many monitors now, and cards run at native 4k dimensions, it'd be good to finally be able to use that 4k to properly compete, either by bringing 4k dots up to the similar physical screen sizes of lower resolution dots - or - to simply start having lower resolution dots come into vision in shorter ranges.  


Also - regarding cockpit scratches - I'll upload a file when I get home this evening.  On the F-14, F-5, and a few others, the 'scratches' on the glass are so dense and patterned, you cannot see out of the cockpit.  

Without the cockpit glass mod, in low-angle sunlight, all I can see are fat, densely packed, patterned scratches.  Either it is a bug, or we need to reconsider how to texture those effects to better mimic real cockpit scratches.  As others have said - you can see thousands of them...but...not like this.  

Also, my eyes are capable many times of focusing past a lot of the scratches on up close glass.  I can't do that in game.  Is that something that could be modeled into texture asset? When you lean in close to the glass, or use the "Zoom" feature, could it apply a blur and transparency shift to those scratches, to mimic 'focusing' your eyes past those close up assets?  Similar to a depth of field effect, sort of.

 

Home now - the scratches I mean below.  These do not go away, but stay as you zoom in so that they become effectively blockers to anything beyond.  I've never flown in anything, nor seen any footage of anything, that looks like these scratches.  As deep as they appear, I'd be worried about the integrity of the glass. 

[draconus]

10 hours ago, Bosun said:

The scratches blur and become more transparent when you 'lean in' in VR?  I'm playing on a monitor.  If that's true, I wonder why this feature isn't implemented for regular graphics?

No, you can just focus your eyes on anything beyond the glass in VR. Impossible to implement on monitor - even with eye tracker the game only knows the area you're looking at but cannot know what distance you're focusing at.

The scratches you've shown - were these ever confirmed by anyone with 4k? Why don't you continue in your bug report?

Edited August 25, 2023 by draconus