MiG-17PF

[carss]

I would honestly much rather the Mig-17AS which had air to air missiles and rockets and was also used in Vietnam for a bit. Sadly those can't be made because of lack of data

[foxbat155]

Sorry my friend, but MiG-17 didn't had any AAM's (except few cuban aircrafts modified locally), MiG-17AS was a middle 70's idea so she never saw any war including Vietnam war, if you will check one of my previous posts you will find drawing with all external stores types available for this variant.

[Stackup]

13 hours ago, foxbat155 said:

Sorry my friend, but MiG-17 didn't had any AAM's (except few cuban aircrafts modified locally), MiG-17AS was a middle 70's idea so she never saw any war including Vietnam war, if you will check one of my previous posts you will find drawing with all external stores types available for this variant.

That's kind of a moot point because the version of the AS RedStar had planned would have had the R-3S, but they cut that variant from the module.  I clearly don't have the encyclopedic knowledge of the MiG-17 variants you do but just thought I'd point out that historical or not, it was planned by the devs before they cancelled the AS.

[foxbat155]

In my humble opinion, if we wanna still call DCS a flight simulator, we should stick to historical realism. In reality MiG-17 didn't had R-3S, but of course module developers can hang under wings whatever they wish.

[Stackup]

8 hours ago, foxbat155 said:

In reality MiG-17 didn't had R-3S

If I might ask, what missiles did the Cuban version have?  That other game gives it the R-3S and the devs were going with that as well so what did they use if it wasn't that?

[foxbat155]

Cubans had of course R-3S missiles, they didn't had access to anything else, but those missiles weren't standard feature, they did this modification locally only on a few aircrafts. Another thing is that the module is about MiG-17F ( afterburner), Cubans had MiG-17 "without letter" variant (no afterburner).

[some1]

2 hours ago, Stackup said:

That other game gives it the R-3S and the devs were going with that

Even War Thunder has removed Mig-17AS from the game, it's unobtainable (unless you bought it while it was available). 

[Stackup]

9 hours ago, some1 said:

Even War Thunder has removed Mig-17AS from the game, it's unobtainable (unless you bought it while it was available). 

And?  It was a Cuban version without an afterburner and had the missiles Cuba would have used and that makes it historically realistic.  It's also premium and is NOT removed, just not currently sold making it rare enough to fit the parameters of low modification count.

In either case, I'm happy we're getting the MiG-17F because that's the version used in Vietnam and I would rather use the cannons instead of knockoff AIM-9B's.

[Dragon1-1]

It would've been nice as an option, but we have nowhere to use the Cuban variant. The F was the most produced and most used, including by Chinese. Plenty of scenarios in Caucasus for it.

[Кош]

 

[snocc_]

would love to see a 17PF later down the line though im already happy enough with what we're getting as it is

[Mars Exulte]

On 7/6/2023 at 11:41 AM, Stackup said:

just not currently sold making it rare enough to fit the parameters of low modification count.

 Since when did they give a damn about that? The sky full of Horton 229s I always dealt with implies ''production count'' was not an issue before :p

[Aviator78]

According to the interview they have some very competent people on the team. Looking forward to the -17F, I'm very happy with that choice.

[YoYo]

About plans for PF:

Quote

Has some plans to build a Mig-17PF version but only if the Mig-17F will be enough profitable and get all available documentation.

So fingers crossed! I don't know what a good sale means to them, but I hope it will.  

[Harlikwin]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:20 AM, foxbat155 said:

Cubans had of course R-3S missiles, they didn't had access to anything else, but those missiles weren't standard feature, they did this modification locally only on a few aircrafts. Another thing is that the module is about MiG-17F ( afterburner), Cubans had MiG-17 "without letter" variant (no afterburner).

Cubans also strapped R-73's to their Mig21bis. Seems like they were an enterprising lot when it came to these sorts of things. 

[Zius]

On 10/13/2023 at 4:59 AM, Harlikwin said:

Cubans also strapped R-73's to their Mig21bis. Seems like they were an enterprising lot when it came to these sorts of things. 

I think it makes sense. You take the airframe you have and try to fit them with the best weapons you can get.

As I understand it, the missiles are largely "stand alone". The seeker is in the missile, it just needs to provide seeker growl and lock tone to the pilot/aircraft and respond to the launch command given by the pilot pressing the button. Possibly the different missiles have different interfaces but it seems not extremely complicated to make it work.

[Dragon1-1]

There's plenty more than lock tone and growl, for instance you need a cage/uncage switch, something to power up the missiles (not needed with unguided bombs and rockets) and a selector to shoot one or both. Check out the R-3S implementation on the MiG-19 or the R-60 box on the Hind. Missiles need power, data (seeker growl) and control to be routed from the missile to the cockpit, in addition to the launch button. Compare that to dumb bombs, which just need an arming wire and a way to detach them from the aircraft.

[Harlikwin]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:57 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

There's plenty more than lock tone and growl, for instance you need a cage/uncage switch, something to power up the missiles (not needed with unguided bombs and rockets) and a selector to shoot one or both. Check out the R-3S implementation on the MiG-19 or the R-60 box on the Hind. Missiles need power, data (seeker growl) and control to be routed from the missile to the cockpit, in addition to the launch button. Compare that to dumb bombs, which just need an arming wire and a way to detach them from the aircraft.

Yeah missile integration is generally really misunderstood by DCS players in general. And while the seeker may be on the missile, things like performing the search pattern were typically on the plane for most of history.

[yngvef]

I think the MiG-17F is the perfect choice. Very common variant of a legendary aircraft. I can't wait to try it out against the F-4, among other things.

Now, if only we could get more Vietnam era planes (including AI planes) and a Vietnam map... That would be something. Either way, I am looking forward to this module and hope it isn't multiple years away from release.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

10 hours ago, yngvef said:

I think the MiG-17F is the perfect choice. Very common variant of a legendary aircraft. I can't wait to try it out against the F-4, among other things.

Now, if only we could get more Vietnam era planes (including AI planes) and a Vietnam map... That would be something. Either way, I am looking forward to this module and hope it isn't multiple years away from release.

On paper, we're about to get a bunch of Vietnam era modules and the map "is coming" along the way. I'm pretty sure it won't be in two weeks, but in the long run probably, anyway it's there and apparently we'll see it in due time which usually is very late for eager customers, anyway...

[Silver_Dragon]

11 hours ago, yngvef said:

I think the MiG-17F is the perfect choice. Very common variant of a legendary aircraft. I can't wait to try it out against the F-4, among other things.

Now, if only we could get more Vietnam era planes (including AI planes) and a Vietnam map... That would be something. Either way, I am looking forward to this module and hope it isn't multiple years away from release.

Has some aircrafts modules of "Vietnam Era", presents & incoming:

• A-1H (Crosstail Studios)
• A-6E (Heatblur)
• A-7E (FlyingIron Simulation)
• F-4E (Heatblur) (Naval version claimed to a future)
• F-8J (Magnitude 3)
• F-100D (Grinnelly Designs)
• F-104G (Aerges)
• Mig-17F (Red Star Simulation)
• UH-1H (ED)

Others with will math released.

• F-5E (ED) No propper version E, but will math.
• F-14 (Heatblur) on progress build early version.
• Mig-17PF (RAZBAM) no propper versios (require a S) but will match
• Mig-21bis (Magnitude-3) not propper version but will match

Vietnam Map has confirmed by ED, has only a matter of time (as Korea).

Edited May 21 by Silver_Dragon

[Stackup]

11 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Has some aircrafts modules of "Vietnam Era", presents & incoming:

• A-1H (Crosstail Studios)
• A-6E (Heatblur)
• A-7E (FlyingIron Simulation)
• F-4E (Heatblur) (Naval version claimed to a future)
• F-8J (Magnitude 3)
• F-100D (Grinnelly Designs)
• F-104G (Aerges)
• Mig-17F (Red Star Simulation)
• UH-1H (ED)

Others with will math released.

• F-5E (ED) No propper version E, but will math.
• F-14 (Heatblur) on progress build early version.
• Mig-17PF (RAZBAM) no propper versios (require a S) but will match
• Mig-21bis (Magnitude-3) not propper version but will match

If you're gonna call out the F-5E, MiG-21bis, and MiG-19P for being the wrong versions... 

The A-6E, F-4E, A-7E, F-104G, UH-1H, and the Early F-14A are all the wrong versions for Vietnam too. All of these aircraft as released/planned are coming with post Vietnam updates, some being decades later.  The A-6E never served in Vietnam even though it had entered service towards the end(stayed stateside to avoid the technology getting into the wrong hands iirc), with the A and B being the only A-6's flying combat in Vietnam.  We are receiving one from the 80s/90s to match the F-14 and given the presence of the TRAM turret in every single screenshot of the A-6 to date and HB saying if they can do the latest version (90s SWIP) they will.  The F-4E is coming with post 1974 upgrades including the newer digital RWR to replace the analog strobe system it had during Vietnam among other things.  The A-7E will be contemporary to Desert Storm despite debuting during the Vietnam War and will have the updates that come with being from the late 80s early 90s.  The F-104G is another wrong version, we need the F-104C for Vietnam.  The UH-1H did serve at the tail end of Vietnam, but just like everything else mentioned has upgrades from after the war such as extra windows in front of the doors, WSPS, the radar altimeter, and flare pods.  The next F-14A we are supposed to get (-135GR Early) also did not serve in Vietnam as it will still be an 80s Tomcat and not the first cruise F-14s that flew cover for Operation Frequent Wind in 1975.  

Razbam has never made a MiG-17PF and I assume you know that and probably made a typo because of the topic name.  They made the MiG-19P and have a semi-completed external model of an S that has not been talked about recently and all development on Razbam products has been halted anyways so no reason to expect it anytime soon. If it ever comes, it will substitute for the Shenyang J-6 as that is a license built copy of the MiG-19S which was used by the North Vietnamese.

Not to say these all of these aircraft won't be used as half-decent subsitutes given we will likely never get all the contemporary versions (same goes for the WWII era), but if we're gonna call out aircraft for being the wrong version, let's do it right and cover them all.  The only aircraft that fit the Vietnam War exactly are all still in development, those being the A-1H, F-8J, F-100D, and MiG-17F.

Hopefully we hear something new about the MiG-17F from Red Star soon, gonna be my first non FC3 Redfor aircraft.

[Silver_Dragon]

If you're gonna call out the F-5E, MiG-21bis, and MiG-19P for being the wrong versions... 
The A-6E, F-4E, A-7E, F-104G, UH-1H, and the Early F-14A are all the wrong versions for Vietnam too. All of these aircraft as released/planned are coming with post Vietnam updates, some being decades later.  The A-6E never served in Vietnam even though it had entered service towards the end(stayed stateside to avoid the technology getting into the wrong hands iirc), with the A and B being the only A-6's flying combat in Vietnam.  We are receiving one from the 80s/90s to match the F-14 and given the presence of the TRAM turret in every single screenshot of the A-6 to date and HB saying if they can do the latest version (90s SWIP) they will.  The F-4E is coming with post 1974 upgrades including the newer digital RWR to replace the analog strobe system it had during Vietnam among other things.  The A-7E will be contemporary to Desert Storm despite debuting during the Vietnam War and will have the updates that come with being from the late 80s early 90s.  The F-104G is another wrong version, we need the F-104C for Vietnam.  The UH-1H did serve at the tail end of Vietnam, but just like everything else mentioned has upgrades from after the war such as extra windows in front of the doors, WSPS, the radar altimeter, and flare pods.  The next F-14A we are supposed to get (-135GR Early) also did not serve in Vietnam as it will still be an 80s Tomcat and not the first cruise F-14s that flew cover for Operation Frequent Wind in 1975.  
Razbam has never made a MiG-17PF and I assume you know that and probably made a typo because of the topic name.  They made the MiG-19P and have a semi-completed external model of an S that has not been talked about recently and all development on Razbam products has been halted anyways so no reason to expect it anytime soon. If it ever comes, it will substitute for the Shenyang J-6 as that is a license built copy of the MiG-19S which was used by the North Vietnamese.
Not to say these all of these aircraft won't be used as half-decent subsitutes given we will likely never get all the contemporary versions (same goes for the WWII era), but if we're gonna call out aircraft for being the wrong version, let's do it right and cover them all.  The only aircraft that fit the Vietnam War exactly are all still in development, those being the A-1H, F-8J, F-100D, and MiG-17F.
Hopefully we hear something new about the MiG-17F from Red Star soon, gonna be my first non FC3 Redfor aircraft.

Aernes F-104G has a 65-66 versión aircraft, no a post Vietnam aircraft.
HB has planned a early A versión 74-75, capable to use them on late Vietnam war.
A-6E we dont know the exact sensors and equipment yet.
Meanwhile the actual F-4E has post Vietnam, HB can make a Vietnam version.

Red Start Simulations has confirm Mig17F has a Full Fidelity module. And remember, we have some FF modules, outside FC-3 on DCS World.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[Stackup]

29 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

HB has planned a early A versión 74-75, capable to use them on late Vietnam war.

No they haven't, it has been stated to be an 80s variant with the in game label of -135GR Early.  Even the Iranian version is not correct for this.  Don't believe me?  Ask LanceCriminal, the guy that does a lot of research for Heatblur and is in the know.  He's corrected me and multiple other people about this before, you wouldn't be the first.

31 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Aernes F-104G has a 65-66 versión aircraft, no a post Vietnam aircraft.

The G wasn't in Vietnam so the version year is irrelevant.

31 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

A-6E we dont know the exact sensors and equipment yet.

We know enough.  Every single screenshot has the TRAM turret installed.  TRAM was only first added in 1974 and didn't become widespread until the 80s.  That's irrelavant anyways since the mere confirmation that it's an E model means it doesn't fit Vietnam as the E never served in the war.

34 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

And remember, we have some FF modules, outside FC-3 on DCS World.

I'm aware, not interested.  Only got the FC3 ones in the first place because at 50% off that bundle is a great deal and buying the ones I wanted separately would have been more expensive than the whole package.

[Silver_Dragon]

8 hours ago, Stackup said:

I'm aware, not interested.  Only got the FC3 ones in the first place because at 50% off that bundle is a great deal and buying the ones I wanted separately would have been more expensive than the whole package.

ED has confirmed the Mig-17F has a FF module, no a FC-3 module...

The 3rd parties has making modules with the more available info, if you dont like them, ok but we dont go to crush a module, or brame to a ED and/or 3rd party with not have making a "expecific version / year". By now, that planned / released version has useful to use on the Vietnam scenery, include if not math with the scenery.