reported MT freezes even in main menu

[QuiGon]

5 hours ago, YoYo said:

According this https://www.dannymoran.com/windows-cpu-core-parking/ "0" means no parking. Before I had 64 in ValueMax as default.

btw. good example (marked for red are parked, DCS runs), in this situation only turning off 8th core solved the issue (for me).

Half of the threads are parked.

That's wrong. What you're setting there is the minimum number of cores that are not parked. If you set it to 0 all cores are allowed to get parked. That's the opposite of what you want. You need to set it to 100, so that the minimum number of cores that are not parked is equal to all available cores. In plain English: 100 means all cores need to be unparked at all times. This is what you want.

You're also editing the wrong registry key as I just noticed. I edited my previous comment accordingly.

Edited October 29, 2023 by QuiGon

[Contact409]

I had this issue for couple of days.  Two day ago I used a software call park control. (https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/) 

Force unpark all core for P-core and problem solved.  I would urge everybody who had stutter issue give a try. 

 

Drop down select Performance mode for power management and set parking to off.  

Click apply and verify all core have been active, then going into the game to check it out. 

[sze5003]

I had this issue for couple of days.  Two day ago I used a software call park control. (https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/) 
Force unpark all core for P-core and problem solved.  I would urge everybody who had stutter issue give a try. 
 
Drop down select Performance mode for power management and set parking to off.  
Click apply and verify all core have been active, then going into the game to check it out. 

I tried park control and when it first loaded up it said my cores were 100% unparked but it made no difference in the game.

Also windows resource monitor also showed some cores that were parked.

[Contact409]

10 minutes ago, sze5003 said:

I tried park control and when it first loaded up it said my cores were 100% unparked but it made no difference in the game.

Also windows resource monitor also showed some cores that were parked.

 

Did you see the 100% and 20/20 (or all of your cores) show in red circles  when you in the game ?

I use the other software with a slider to 100% to unpark, that one didn`t work. 

[sze5003]

 
Did you see the 100% and 20/20 (or all of your cores) show in red circles  when you in the game ?
I use the other software with a slider to 100% to unpark, that one didn`t work. 

I saw 100% on the left yes but on the right it would fluctuate the number of cores available. 10/24, 15/24, etc.

[Contact409]

39 minutes ago, sze5003 said:

1 hour ago, Contact409 said:

Did you see the 100% and 20/20 (or all of your cores) show in red circles  when you in the game ?
I use the other software with a slider to 100% to unpark, that one didn`t work. 

I saw 100% on the left yes but on the right it would fluctuate the number of cores available. 10/24, 15/24, etc.

Don`t forget to hit apply.  If after apply it still fluctuate....then it`s beyond me. 

[sze5003]

Don`t forget to hit apply.  If after apply it still fluctuate....then it`s beyond me. 

Yea unfortunately I did press on apply a few times. Not sure why it won't make the change appropriately.

[ralch]

I decided to wait until the first 2.9 patch.  I tried it yesterday and started to suffer these horrible freezes.  I was going crazy.  I noticed that when the freeze was active, task manager showed no activity in any of the cpus.   I have a 12700k.   I found this thread, and used this to set ValueMax to zero (ValueMin already was in zero), which is the way to tell windows not to park any core (this is confirmed here  and in one of the comments in the video).

Before making the change, I verified that windows regularly parked cores when not in use, just as expected in any normal system.   After the change, and a restart, windows no longer parked any cores.   I realize this is different from what some members are saying here but it works.  Windows no longer parks any core after this change.

I've been playing in VR all day without any freezing issues, thank you!

and I hope the developers are able to identify this issue and fix it as soon as possible since I don't want to disable this parking forever because of DCS.

Edited October 30, 2023 by ralch

[boerdi]

8 hours ago, QuiGon said:

That's wrong. What you're setting there is the minimum number of cores that are not parked. If you set it to 0 all cores are allowed to get parked. That's the opposite of what you want. You need to set it to 100, so that the minimum number of cores that are not parked is equal to all available cores. In plain English: 100 means all cores need to be unparked at all times. This is what you want.

You're also editing the wrong registry key as I just noticed. I edited my previous comment accordingly.

 

Wait, the info in the Danny Moran blog post is wrong? (c.f. https://www.dannymoran.com/windows-cpu-core-parking/ )
Why does it work for me then? (Win 11 + 12900K)

Windows Resource Monitor shows me all cores unparked after that registry edit
And MT DCS runs smooth without any freezes for over a week now.

Edited October 30, 2023 by boerdi

[QuiGon]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:09 AM, boerdi said:

Wait, the info in the Danny Moran blog post is wrong? (c.f. https://www.dannymoran.com/windows-cpu-core-parking/ )

Yes, apparently so. It's pretty clearly explained in the official Microsoft documentation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/customize/power-settings/options-for-core-parking-cpmincores
And to be really sure I just tested it again myself.

Even worse: That blog post doesn't apply to hybrid CPUs like the 12700, 12900, 13700 and 13900 as with these CPUs the key shown in the bog post (dec35c318583) only affects the E-cores which are already set to never go parking by the Windows default high performance power plan. To also prevent the P-cores of hybrid CPUs from parking you need to edit the key dec35c318584 instead.

Having said that, I don't really recommend to mess with the "ValueMin" and "ValueMax" settings in the registry at all, as they don't set the actual value directly, but actually limit the available range of values. You would need to go one level deeper into the registry to change the actual values per power plan, which can get really confusing in the registry.

Instead it's better to just set the "Attributes" value to 0, which just unhides the setting in the Windows energy settings, where they can be changed in a safe and user friendly way:



 
Sorry, my system's language is German...
 

On 10/30/2023 at 8:09 AM, boerdi said:

Why does it work for me then? (Win 11 + 12900K)

Windows Resource Monitor shows me all cores unparked after that registry edit
And MT DCS runs smooth without any freezes for over a week now.

I have no idea what's going on there on your side. There must be some other things at play there.

Edited January 2 by QuiGon

[speed-of-heat]

be aware that these reg changes are power plan specific, and will typically impact either the Ultimate or High Power plan, only that would be two specific registry changes if you wanted to effect that change on both High Power and Ultimate... I always recommend gamers select the ultimate performance plan just away of minimising the power "efficiency" if you are a lap top user or very power conscious this is not the correct choice for you  

Edited October 30, 2023 by speed-of-heat

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Yes, apparently so. It's pretty clearly explained in the official Microsoft documentation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/customize/power-settings/options-for-core-parking-cpmincores
And to be really sure I just tested it again myself.

Even worse: That blog post doesn't apply to hybrid CPUs like the 12700, 12900, 13700 and 13900 as with these CPUs the key shown in the bog post (dec35c318583) only affects the E-cores which are already set to never go parking by the Windows default high performance power plan. To also prevent the P-cores of hybrid CPUs from parking you need to edit the key dec35c318583 instead.

Having said that, I don't really recommend to mess with the "ValueMin" and "ValueMax" settings in the registry at all, as they don't set the actual value directly, but actually limit the available range of values. You would need to go one level deeper into the registry to change the actual values per power plan, which can get really confusing in the registry.

Instead it's better to just set the "Attributes" value to 0, which just unhides the setting in the Windows energy settings, where they can be changed in a safe and user friendly way:



 
null
Sorry, my system's language is German...
 

I have no idea what's going on there on your side. There must be some other things at play there.

 

What you write is interesting. So it seems that many of us used the wrong settings after all, and they may actually differ depending on the type of processor. Thanks for the explanation, I'll check it again.

[boerdi]

8 hours ago, QuiGon said:

[...] Sorry, my system's language is German... [...]

 

Nobody is perfect (SCNR   Kranplätze müssen verdichtet sein!)

Using the faulty (?) Danny Moran method, this is my Windows Resource Monitor on a heavily scripted MP server (Grayflag Syria)
Free of stutters for over a week now with FPS most of the time way over 100 FPS (maybe dropping to high dougle digits when the server starts shifting AI units around)
(Win 11 + 12900K)

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[edit 1]

Reverted the Danny Moran registry edit at location "dec35c318583" (ValueMax from 0 back to 64)
Same test on MP server showing parked cores:

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by boerdi

[boerdi]

On 10/30/2023 at 9:08 AM, QuiGon said:

Even worse: That blog post doesn't apply to hybrid CPUs like the 12700, 12900, 13700 and 13900 as with these CPUs the key shown in the bog post (dec35c318583) only affects the E-cores which are already set to never go parking by the Windows default high performance power plan. To also prevent the P-cores of hybrid CPUs from parking you need to edit the key dec35c318583 instead.

Did you mean to type "[...] edit the key dec35c318584 [...]"?

Apologies for the double post!

[edit 1]

Will test now with the unhidden option referenced by you
Which makes me feel better! Less registry butchering

[edit 2]

How about unhiding both types of cores and unparking all via power options?

Keys:
dec35c318583 (e-cores)
dec35c318584 (p-cores)

And I prefer the balanced power plan since I don't need Windows to idle at 4+ Ghz

 

 

[edit 3] (Update: 9 November)

Results since applying this method: Zero stutters and freezes (Win11 + 12900K + regular 2D on single screen)
-> More details in this post

The only issues I currently encounter are related to the OB 2.9.0.47168 performance challenges imposed on MP servers

Edited November 9, 2023 by boerdi

[YoYo]

9 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Yes, apparently so. It's pretty clearly explained in the official Microsoft documentation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/customize/power-settings/options-for-core-parking-cpmincores
And to be really sure I just tested it again myself.

Even worse: That blog post doesn't apply to hybrid CPUs like the 12700, 12900, 13700 and 13900 as with these CPUs the key shown in the bog post (dec35c318583) only affects the E-cores which are already set to never go parking by the Windows default high performance power plan. To also prevent the P-cores of hybrid CPUs from parking you need to edit the key dec35c318583 instead.

Having said that, I don't really recommend to mess with the "ValueMin" and "ValueMax" settings in the registry at all, as they don't set the actual value directly, but actually limit the available range of values. You would need to go one level deeper into the registry to change the actual values per power plan, which can get really confusing in the registry.

Instead it's better to just set the "Attributes" value to 0, which just unhides the setting in the Windows energy settings, where they can be changed in a safe and user friendly way:



 
null
Sorry, my system's language is German...
 

I have no idea what's going on there on your side. There must be some other things at play there.

 

Ok, Im at home.... and looks very ok and promissing what I see. Firstly I used your "Attributes" trick and next I saw that here I have 0% in this new part of settings for me.

Changed too 100% and no any parked core on 13900 even my "favorite" 8th! Awsome! Time to see it in DCS now. Thanks a lot!

(so that it wouldn't be easy, you showed it in German and I showed it in Polish , sry)

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

Ok, Im at home.... and looks very ok and promissing what I see. Firstly I used your "Attributes" trick and next I saw that here I have 0% in this new part of settings for me.

 

Yeah, this new setting is the one for the P-cores (the one with the dec35c318584 key in the registry)
I'm glad it's working for you now

[boerdi]

42 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

Yeah, this new setting is the one for the P-cores (the one with the dec35c318584 key in the registry)
I'm glad it's working for you now

Thank you for the clarifying informations!
Got a slightly better understanding of the dynamics of Windows power plans and cores now.

Commencing stress test of the new settings

---------------------------------

To sum up my system + settings:
Windows 11
i9-12900K
Power plan: balanced
Unparked E and P cores via QuiGon's method
Registry keys: "dec35c318583" (E-cores) and "dec35c318584" (P-cores)

Edited October 30, 2023 by boerdi

[sze5003]

Is the registry fix the same for windows 10 or is there a different key for each processor?

[QuiGon]

3 hours ago, boerdi said:

Nobody is perfect (SCNR   Kranplätze müssen verdichtet sein!)

Using the faulty (?) Danny Moran method, this is my Windows Resource Monitor on a heavily scripted MP server (Grayflag Syria)
Free of stutters for over a week now with FPS most of the time way over 100 FPS (maybe dropping to high dougle digits when the server starts shifting AI units around)
(Win 11 + 12900K)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[edit 1]

Reverted the Danny Moran registry edit at location "dec35c318583" (ValueMax from 0 back to 64)
Same test on MP server showing parked cores:

Huh, that's really weird. I have no idea what's happening there, but interesting to see, so thanks for sharing!
 

3 hours ago, boerdi said:

Did you mean to type "[...] edit the key dec35c318584 [...]"?

Indeed, my bad! I corrected it now.
 

20 minutes ago, sze5003 said:

Is the registry fix the same for windows 10 or is there a different key for each processor?

It's the same for Win 10/11 and all CPUs. The only difference is, that on systems with hybrid CPUs (CPUs with E- and P- cores) the dec35c318583 key only handles the E-cores and the dec35c318584 key handles the P-cores, while on systems with "normal" CPUs the dec35c318583 key handles all cores.

Edited October 30, 2023 by QuiGon

[YoYo]

@QuiGon I can confirm, no any parking core during DCS playing now :), it solved my issue plus I run few benchmarks for CPU and I have better results in points than before, thanks a lot! 

[sze5003]

It's the same for Win 10/11 and all CPUs. The only difference is, that on systems with hybrid CPUs (CPUs with E- and P- cores) the dec35c318583 key only handles the E-cores and the dec35c318584 key handles the P-cores, while on systems with "normal" CPUs the dec35c318583 key handles all cores.

Thanks, in the case of my 13900k would I want to apply it for E cores, P Cores, or Both?

I think I will probably export these keys and make it so I can undo the change too.

[Hammer1-1]

P cores only.

[CaptainFlint42]

I am having stutters to single digit FPS in the main menu with 2.9 Multithreading as well.

I see most of the comments here are Intel, but I'm on Ryzen.

Running a 5800X3D, 3090, 32GB RAM, Reverb G2.

I could've sworn I didn't see these issues in the first 2.9 release, but have seen them since the release of DCS 2.9.0.47168 Open Beta.

No issues with single-threading 2.9 running through SteamVR.

I've successfully unparked all my CPU cores with the CPU Unpark App - still having issues.

Looking at Resource Monitor and Process Lasso - I'm seeing CPU10 going to a solid 100%. So I've deselected CPU10 with Process Lasso.

Still seeing the stuttering issues.

 

DxDiag-Flint-Nov1.txt dcs.log

[sze5003]

Managed to unpark all cores using the registry fix. I can still see fps and CPU spikes in the performance chart in VR.

The stutter intermittently is still there in multithreaded DCS for some reason. The only way I don't see stutter is if I'm running at 90fps all the time. I think it may have something to do with ASW as even when it's locked to 45 I still have stutter intermittently.

Not sure why I'm not seeing the same in single threaded mode.

[Gripen 4-1]

Short feedback:

Never had stutters in main menu, but in free flight missions I had random stuttering.

Yesterday I disabled AMD SMT (hyperthreading) and it is much, much smoother after 2 weeks of stuttering. CPPC is enabled and CPPC prefered core is disabled.

Maybe some points that can make things better or worse. But there where a lot of steam VR updates too in the past weeks (I set steam VR as open XR renderer because motion reprojection is much better)

Playing with the attached settings in VR with motion reprojection always on