Constant whooshing cockpit sound

[Eaglewings]

Initially taking the f-15 for a ride brought my attention to that ECS sound.
I did not know where it was coming from at first

We are all different when it comes to tolerance level and that ECS sound level at default settings when I fly in hot start mode is really overwhelming for me personally. Others call deal with it at that level and that is just great.
I knew better later about how to resolve this issue for my personal sound tolerance level.

The maker of the real F-15 Strike Eagle has made provision for this and Razbam implemented it.

1. Aircon switch max/Medium/low at low
2. Aircon source at left or right engine

These two option considerably reduces the ECS sound to a very bearable level for me and I get the best of both worlds ( personal convenience and sound realism.
I feel cool enough in the cockpit on a very hot day ( ) with these settings and my avionics systems are well taken care of.
The only concern is if in the future failures and damage model implementation changes things with having these preferred settings on the ECS panel as someone has put out there.

I am an armchair pilot here who really likes it realistic as far as can be implemented for us PC pilot so well done Razbam.











Ryzen 5 5600: RTX 3070: 32g Ram: Virpil Cm3 Throttle :Thrustmaster warthog flight stick: Thrustmaster TFRP rudder:Samsung Odyssey plus Vr headset :

[Eaglewings]

Someone posted a sneak-peek from Razbam discord of some fixes likely coming to the F-15E in next open beta and I can see this listed:

Improved: Adjusted ECS airflow sound gain

I have the feeling this could be addressing the concern about loud ECS noise expressed here on this thread.
Fingers crossed.

[Scott-S6]

On 6/28/2023 at 10:21 AM, Hayrake YE-ZB said:

That’s a solution worth exploring. There is something strange about using a noise cancelling headset to attenuate artificially generated noise though!

No noise cancelling needed. Just play ambient sounds through speakers and helmet sounds through your headset. You can then easily adjust the volume of headset noises, just like you would be able to in the jet. Hearing radio traffic and cetera is now no problem and the ambient sound is significantly quieter.

But a mixer for ambient Vs helmet would be a relatively simple thing to implement given that they already have the two sound sets separate.

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Eaglewings said:

Improved: Adjusted ECS airflow sound gain

They might have make it louder to make it more realistic

[niru27]

Do you want hearing damage? That's realistic too

How about every time the plane is destoyed, you have to re-buy the module? You know just like IRL

How about every time you eject someone comes and compresses your spine? Makes you think twice about pulling risky manoeuvres. You know just like IRL

While it may be realistic to replicate the same sounds heard in the cockpit, it needs to be balanced with the bad effects it will have on your health IRL. We're here for the aircrafts, not a fricking HVAC simulation.

[RaisedByWolves]

I prefer the whoosing sound to the constant low altitude warning saying....PollackPollackPollack.....

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 6/28/2023 at 9:49 AM, Scott-S6 said:

There's an easy solution - play the ambient sound through speakers and the headset sound through your headset or helmet. Not only will your headset/helmet attenuate the ECS noise, you now have the ability to easily adjust the volumes of ambient and headset sound independently.

 

Yup, that’s what I have been doing ever since ED made that an option.

Oh and for the record: thanks Razbam - finally a developer who got the sound right!

As much as I love the F-14 for example, I find the clicking of switches annoying and I prefer not to hear afterburner sounds, especially loud ones. I’ll know when I’m in afterburner since I’ll have my throttle past the detent and my left arm will be completely extended:  no need for made-up sounds

Edited July 12, 2023 by Raven (Elysian Angel)
Fixed stuff

[draconus]

13 hours ago, niru27 said:

While it may be realistic to replicate the same sounds heard in the cockpit, it needs to be balanced with the bad effects it will have on your health IRL.

Hearing protection responsibility is on the user - be it your headset or the volume slider - but the realistic volume ratio of different sounds has to stay true to the realistic levels. So even if the ECS is the overwhelming sound you can have it played on low level but the other sounds will be quieter accordingly.

As for other ideas, thanks, but that is not what this simulation is about - if I die virtually I can start the next simulation as the same pilot or the other one, in the same aircraft or the other vehicle, in the same time and place or completely different one - and every time it can be realistic as far as simulation allows. Some MP server already implemented some limitations to the pilot's life.

Edited July 12, 2023 by draconus

[niru27]

15 hours ago, draconus said:

Hearing protection responsibility is on the user - be it your headset or the volume slider - but the realistic volume ratio of different sounds has to stay true to the realistic levels. So even if the ECS is the overwhelming sound you can have it played on low level but the other sounds will be quieter accordingly.

As for other ideas, thanks, but that is not what this simulation is about - if I die virtually I can start the next simulation as the same pilot or the other one, in the same aircraft or the other vehicle, in the same time and place or completely different one - and every time it can be realistic as far as simulation allows. Some MP server already implemented some limitations to the pilot's life.

But...but...that is not realistic - you can't respawn in real life with your previous life's memories, why should you be allowed here. Totally ruins muh immersion /s

Quote

but that is not what this simulation is about

Precisely. This is about Combat simulation. Not audio simulation. If you want to destroy your hearing and end up with Tinnitus, crank all the volumes all the way up. ECS sound adds nothing to the combat aspect, but has a proven detrimental effect on hearing.

Also, from a more "realistic" PoV: sound loudness does not scale linearly with distance. While having the vent sound play from a speaker far away would be ideal and allow radio comms to be heard better via the headset. But when both are played via headset, the ECS will sound much louder.

[draconus]

8 hours ago, niru27 said:

This is about Combat simulation. Not audio simulation. If you want to destroy your hearing and end up with Tinnitus, crank all the volumes all the way up. ECS sound adds nothing to the combat aspect, but has a proven detrimental effect on hearing.

Sounds of the world, weapons and aircraft is part of the simulation but you're free to turn it off if the combat is all you're here for. About hearing damage... you're just being obnoxious.

[Czar66]

On 6/25/2023 at 1:12 PM, Rainmaker said:

Have you sat in any of those airplanes to define what is realistic and what is not?  

Yeah, I never sat in a Strike Eagle. So I must accept the too high volume level from ECS because the first module iteration that comes in EARLY ACCESS should be deemed as exactly as it is in real life and missed values doesn't happen at all as the developers are pure gods...

Some of us are just trying to point out things in order to iron out possible bugs.

Over and over again folks points at "IRL the ECS sounds overwhelm every other sound" and "people got used to unrealistic sounds from other modules and they can't handle the real values". It is NOT the ECS mix against other sounds, is the DB levels of ECS that's way too loud on a headset. Same volume levels for all modules, no issue on hearing comfort.

ECS is just too loud. Not as in: "I can't hear the aircraft like in a hollywood movie". It is: The output of ECS is too loud. <<<<

I've never seen such defense on a brand new Early Access title. The module is pretty cool but is full of bugs as in the next OB patchnotes by Razbam points out. Great work on the dev side but gaslighting people trying to help make it better on the forum is bizarre.

[draconus]

32 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Yeah, I never sat in a Strike Eagle.

Yet still questioning the SME's words and no - it's not helping.

33 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Same volume levels for all modules, no issue on hearing comfort

That means other SE sounds are too lound respectively.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Yeah, I never sat in a Strike Eagle. So I must accept the too high volume level from ECS because the first module iteration that comes in EARLY ACCESS should be deemed as exactly as it is in real life and missed values doesn't happen at all as the developers are pure gods...

Some of us are just trying to point out things in order to iron out possible bugs.

Over and over again folks points at "IRL the ECS sounds overwhelm every other sound" and "people got used to unrealistic sounds from other modules and they can't handle the real values". It is NOT the ECS mix against other sounds, is the DB levels of ECS that's way too loud on a headset. Same volume levels for all modules, no issue on hearing comfort.

ECS is just too loud. Not as in: "I can't hear the aircraft like in a hollywood movie". It is: The output of ECS is too loud. <<<<

I've never seen such defense on a brand new Early Access title. The module is pretty cool but is full of bugs as in the next OB patchnotes by Razbam points out. Great work on the dev side but gaslighting people trying to help make it better on the forum is bizarre.

Yeah it is rather loud. Some option to tweak it to the user’s preference would be the simple common sense thing to do for a game.

[jaylw314]

Not wading into the realistic vs unrealistic sound squabble, but for now, at least until avionics overheating is implemented, you can turn the ECS off.  Alternatively, setting the AC to MIN and/or setting the ECS to left or right only allows for a couple steps to control the overall volume.  AFAIK, setting AC to MIN and ECS to L/R only does not trigger the display cooling warning.

[Theodore42]

I wasn't going to say anything, not because I disagree with the argument, but because my reply might be too nerdy 

Probably close to 20 years ago I remember in the forums of an old Viper sim a similar argument. People were saying the buttons didn't make realistic sounds and people wanted actual recordings of the buttons in the sim. I naturally agreed.
But one day I was at an airshow and they had an F-16 just sitting out by itself with the canopy up. They were letting people SIT IN IT!!! Where were all the people waiting in line? Where were all the kids that wanted to sit in a cockpit full of buttons? (Where were the MPs making sure kids don't fall off the ladder climbing into the cockpit?) There were thousands of people at this airshow and an open F-16 cockpit is vacant?!??

So I climbed in and went through the start up procedure. The HOTAS was pulled out but everything else was there. And I was amazed as I started flipping switches and pressing buttons at how closely the tactile experience of pressing the button was to the sound effect of pressing the button in that other Viper sim. The buttons on the UFC probably didn't even make an audible sound, but the way it felt to press them was exactly how I imagined it felt when clicking them in the simulator with the "poor" sound effects. So are they BAD sound effects because they don't REALLY represent the actual audible experience or were they GOOD sound effects because they accurately represent how it FEELS to press the buttons? 

Also, a pilot may not be able to clearly HEAR the afterburner, or the wind during high alpha maneuvers, but he can FEEL when the afterburner is on or when the wings start buffeting in the wind. Does sound have a part to play here?

So that's just a thought on the philosophy of sound in video games. Now consider this analogy wherein we can all be SMEs:
In the year 3000 a car nerd wants to jump in a car simulator and drive a Stingray down Route 66. The Stingray's engine sound is famous. But the road noise is loud! So he puts on tires from 2020 even though they aren't contemporaneous with the Stingray (to us, anyway. A guy in the year 3000 might think they are). Oh yeah, Route 66 is in the desert! So he naturally turns on the AC. Oh no! It's too loud for him to clearly hear the awesome engine sound!! (Even in cars with loud engines an AC on max will drown out the engine sound). He either has to turn down the temp of the desert (so he doesn't need the AC) or he turns down the volume of the AC so he can clearly hear the engine.
If you're an SME contracted to Stingray Simulator 3000, how would you advise them?

I guess it all comes down what you're trying to simulate. Some people like jet engines and they're going to want to hear them. Some people relate to fighter pilots and they're going to want to simulate the pilot experience.

When I read that other modules didn't simulate the ECS sound that kinda bothered me. Imagine some jerk that knows nothing about airplanes gets a backseat ride in an F-15. When confronted with unfamiliar screens, flashing lights, buttons, switches, knobs..... the first thing that's going to stick with him is the SOUND. And then jumps into DCS...
He'll say it's obvious to him that this module is NOT what it feels like to sit in an actual F-15E cockpit at all! The cockpit sound, the thing that made the greatest impression on him the first time he sat in an actual cockpit, isn't even in the game?!?? All the attention to detail that goes into making the sim that this random guy has no chance of understanding, and probably not even a chance of perceiving, is lost on him... yet he could honestly say the inaccuracy of the module is obvious to him.

The solution imo (and I think previously mentioned) would be to have a global volume setting for the ECS and to bring all modules up to a similar ambient cockpit sound standard. It would fit right in with the "hear like in helmet" and the amplify afterburner sound options.

[Rainmaker]

13 hours ago, Czar66 said:

Yeah, I never sat in a Strike Eagle. So I must accept the too high volume level from ECS because the first module iteration that comes in EARLY ACCESS should be deemed as exactly as it is in real life and missed values doesn't happen at all as the developers are pure gods...

Some of us are just trying to point out things in order to iron out possible bugs.

Over and over again folks points at "IRL the ECS sounds overwhelm every other sound" and "people got used to unrealistic sounds from other modules and they can't handle the real values". It is NOT the ECS mix against other sounds, is the DB levels of ECS that's way too loud on a headset. Same volume levels for all modules, no issue on hearing comfort.

ECS is just too loud. Not as in: "I can't hear the aircraft like in a hollywood movie". It is: The output of ECS is too loud. <<<<

I've never seen such defense on a brand new Early Access title. The module is pretty cool but is full of bugs as in the next OB patchnotes by Razbam points out. Great work on the dev side but gaslighting people trying to help make it better on the forum is bizarre.

The devs made the sounds like they are BASED on SME inputs actually.  So it was done based on 'been there, done that' inputs and not 'we think' from the devs.  Just to clarify those points.

[freehand]

I will be honest I have not even thought about it because I do not care lol 4 pages on how it sounds in the cockpit.

 

[AvgWhiteGuy]

33 minutes ago, freehand said:

I will be honest I have not even thought about it because I do not care lol 4 pages on how it sounds in the cockpit.

 

Some here are arguing for the sake of arguing. There has been several tweaks suggested in the 'now world', and several fixes suggested for future dev work. Enough is enough, can we get back to more important issues like fixing the Subway Tuna sandwich dilemma, or even more important; you can't chomp down on a Subway Tuna sandwich while the INS is in alignment for fear of moving the aircraft 1 nanometer? 

[draconus]

7 hours ago, Theodore42 said:

Also, a pilot may not be able to clearly HEAR the afterburner, or the wind during high alpha maneuvers, but he can FEEL when the afterburner is on or when the wings start buffeting in the wind. Does sound have a part to play here?

Only if you have the speakers large enough to feel the bass... or the simshaker kind of device.

7 hours ago, Theodore42 said:

If you're an SME contracted to Stingray Simulator 3000, how would you advise them?

You're supposed to simulate all aspects of the car, including all the sounds, not the engine alone. If you insist on hearing clean engine sound you have all the means to make that happen.

7 hours ago, Theodore42 said:

The solution imo (and I think previously mentioned) would be to have a global volume setting for the ECS and to bring all modules up to a similar ambient cockpit sound standard.

Most of the DCS jets should have much louder ECS added and some fantasy AB sounds removed but the aircraft are not the same and should not be made to match any "similar ambient cockpit sound".

2 hours ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:

you can't chomp down on a Subway Tuna sandwich while the INS is in alignment for fear of moving the aircraft 1 nanometer?

Already fixed in coming beta.

[Ramses823]

Razbam has already raised the bar with this flight module and I think it will grow into being one of the best modules in DCS. There has been a big discussion on the discord about the issue with cockpit sounds and the consumer base really seems split down the middle on this issue, I  myself think they have done a great job simulating the cockpit sounds I like the fact that I'm hearing it like a real pilot hears it in the real aircraft. I think the best solution as I have said on discord is to have the hear in cockpit option as realistic as possible so you hear exactly what a pilot hears, and then with the hear in cockpit option turned off make it possible to hear more of the engine sounds, with less ECS or make it possible to adjust those sounds that way both side of the consumer base is satisfied with the module.

[jonsky7]

Are the sound files encrypted? I don't own the F-15E but the AV8B and M-2000 don't have encrypted sounds. If not, just go in to the sdef for the ECS and reduce the gain number.

And if you put that modified file in your saved games folder, it shouldn't upset integrity checks.

Just a thought.

[Caldera]

Seems Razbam has adjusted the gain...

[Eaglewings]

Seems Razbam has adjusted the gain...

Yes it sounds so.
I have noticed it has been turned down a notch.
I could flying long flight without feeling bothered by the constant whoosh sound.

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[draconus]

I can't tell a difference but instead of an option they made it unrealistic for all? Or is it correct now in BOTH/NORM position?

[Eaglewings]

I can't tell a difference but instead of an option they made it unrealistic for all? Or is it correct now in BOTH/NORM position?

Sound like they kind of dampen the high pitch of the aircon noise somewhat.

Very subtle I would say.
I can put up with aircon at default norm position now, at max is just still too much for me presently.

I can deaden the sound further by going to min while having aircon source swith at both engine.
Before the patch update, aircon had to be min and aircon source at either left or right engine for a comfy flight.



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