How will this affect DCS? AMD Officially Announces FSR 3; Will Support Every DX11/ DX12 Game

[Braunn]

1 minute ago, 5ephir0th said:

Its the equivalent to FSR 1.0 because for 2.0 and beyond need temporal information from the game engine for work, you cant get that information from games that doesnt support it or via driver for games that does it, it needs to be implemented at game level, thats why you can apply FSR 1.0 to any game even without the Adrenaline, because it doesnt need any info from the game as is just a spatial upscaler, same as nVidia NIS, and thats why AMD warns you to disable RSR on games that support FSR.

You even can apply FSR 1.0 and nVidia NIS to any VR game through software like OpenXR Toolkit. Obviously you get the performance gain but not the image quality of 2.0 and beyond

RSR is a spatial upscaler AND supersampler, so what you're posting is not correct. The reason why AMD prompts you to disable RSR if you're going to run FSR in a supported game is because they share the same algorithm. You will be running two "identical" algorithms at the same time and that can result in a conflict/time complexity between them. In other words, lesser performance.

But please keep going. I see where you're coming from. 

 

[5ephir0th]

15 minutes ago, Braunn said:

RSR is a spatial upscaler AND supersampler, so what you're posting is not correct. The reason why AMD prompts you to disable RSR if you're going to run FSR in a supported game is because they share the same algorithm. You will be running two "identical" algorithms at the same time and that can result in a conflict/time complexity between them. In other words, lesser performance.

But please keep going. I see where you're coming from. 

 

Of course its a supersampler too, not mentioning it doesnt change anything i said.

If you simplified my post to just "not correct" and keep not seeing the difference between RSR not having access to temporal data (being upscaling/supersampling) and FSR 2.0+ yes (being image reconstruction), no offense but i end here

[Braunn]

43 minutes ago, 5ephir0th said:

Of course its a supersampler too, not mentioning it doesnt change anything i said.

If you simplified my post to just "not correct" and keep not seeing the difference between RSR not having access to temporal data (being upscaling/supersampling) and FSR 2.0+ yes (being image reconstruction), no offense but i end here

It changes a lot because there's a big difference between a spatial upscaler and a supersampler. RSR is both. Not "just" a spatial upscaler like NIS, or "just" a spatial upscaler like FSR or "just" a supersampler like DLSS. Wording it like RSR is the same as Nvidia NIS which is "just" an upscaler is misleading at best. 

If you don't know, don't argue. No offense. 

[Nipil]

The qustion is if RSR can provide the same quality as later FSR versions. AFAIK it can't, although I might be wrong.

[spacemishka]

Why DLSS2 and not 3/3.5? 

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@spacemishka DLSS 2 as in just upscaling, no frame gen, no ray reconstruction. They will of course use whichever version is currently available. Unfortunately Nvidias naming convention is very confusing.

It's understandable that they want to focus on one thing, if it pans out I don't see why ED wouldn't add frame generation somewhere down the line, from either vendor, but first it's best to focus on implementing basic functionality. Especially considering their engine didn't support TAA so a lot of things that are a given in modern games needed to be coded in

[spacemishka]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Dr_Pavelheer:

@spacemishka DLSS 2 as in just upscaling, no frame gen, no ray reconstruction. They will of course use whichever version is currently available. Unfortunately Nvidias naming convention is very confusing.

It's understandable that they want to focus on one thing, if it pans out I don't see why ED wouldn't add frame generation somewhere down the line, from either vendor, but first it's best to focus on implementing basic functionality. Especially considering their engine didn't support TAA so a lot of things that are a given in modern games needed to be coded in

ah right,....

[Zebra1-1]

On 9/17/2023 at 5:27 PM, Willie Nelson said:

I just wish they’d give us an update on any of these items tbh. 

They have. DLSS will be in 2.9 (the next patch) and FSR at a later time. 

8 hours ago, spacemishka said:

Why DLSS2 and not 3/3.5? 

Because 3.0 is RTX 4000 series only and 3.5 only just came out. 

[spacemishka]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Zebra1-1:

Because 3.0 is RTX 4000 series only and 3.5 only just came out. 

ah ok... than i am fine with 2..... just have a 3070ti

 

Thanks for this detail,....should have looked for it myself

[twistking]

On 10/5/2023 at 1:41 PM, spacemishka said:

Why DLSS2 and not 3/3.5? 

20 hours ago, Zebra1-1 said:

[...]

Because 3.0 is RTX 4000 series only and 3.5 only just came out. 

This is not correct! And it's mentioned in nearly every thread about DLSS. DLSS encompasses differetn features, of which all need RTX cards, but not neccessarily the 4000 gen. The DLSS upscaler and DLAA, which are what we will be getting for DCS will not require 4000 gen but will run on every RTX card, even if they are from DLSS version 3.0/3.5.
It's unfortunate that Nvidia chose that naming convention, which can be confusing, but it's not that difficult either: DLSS has different features, each feature has different hardware requirements.

I assume we will get DLSS 2 instead of 3, simply because 3 is quite new and version 2 is what ED has been implementing and tuning the last months. I'm sure we will get newer versions eventually...

Edited October 6, 2023 by twistking

[MIghtymoo]

We are getting DLSS 2 in DCS.

[Glide]

And the different versions of DLSS are binary compatible.  So, there are users over in the MSFS community who are replacing the DLSS executable each time a new version of DLSS comes out.  This gives the false impression that they are somehow upgrading their DLSS implementation, when in fact it requires developer work to implement the new features in each successive version of DLSS.  So, don't be fooled.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@Glide There are differences, I think Digital Foundry did a video about that, but it's stuff like slightly reduced ghosting or slightly improved quality in motion, not enabling new functions

Edited October 6, 2023 by Dr_Pavelheer

[Comstedt86]

AMD released new preview drivers with Frame Generation (AMD Fluid Motion Frames) yesterday.

Compatable with 6000 Series as well now.

[Zebra1-1]

This is not correct! And it's mentioned in nearly every thread about DLSS. DLSS encompasses differetn features, of which all need RTX cards, but not neccessarily the 4000 gen. The DLSS upscaler and DLAA, which are what we will be getting for DCS will not require 4000 gen but will run on every RTX card, even if they are from DLSS version 3.0/3.5.
It's unfortunate that Nvidia chose that naming convention, which can be confusing, but it's not that difficult either: DLSS has different features, each feature has different hardware requirements.
I assume we will get DLSS 2 instead of 3, simply because 3 is quite new and version 2 is what ED has been implementing and tuning the last months. I'm sure we will get newer versions eventually...

Wrong. DLSS 3 has Frame generation which is exclusive to RTX 4000 series cards. Yes a seperate feature and makes the naming convention weird, But there is no official Nvidia support for DLSS 3 on 3000 (or older) series cards. Regardless if there are features that would otherwise work with othe RTX series cards.

DLSS 3.5 supports all RTX series cards, but Frame Generation is still only unlocked with RTX 4000 series cards. DLSS 3.5 is barely a month old though.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[twistking]

43 minutes ago, Zebra1-1 said:

[...] But there is no official Nvidia support for DLSS 3 on 3000 (or older) series cards. Regardless if there are features that would otherwise work with othe RTX series cards. [...]

Official Nvidia marketing slides disagreee with that statement. First column shows DLSS 3 SR & DLAA running on all RTX cards. From a technical standpoint it wouldn't make a lot of sense any other way, would it?
Maybe in some games it's integrated "wrongly" in a way that makes DLSS 3 synonymous with frame-gen, where upscaling only would be named (again: "wrongly") DLSS 2.0? Fact is, every RTX card can run upscaling, even if it's of the newer 3/3.5 iterations. This is based solely on Nvidia marketing, since i have no RTX card myself by the way.

Edited October 7, 2023 by twistking

[YSIAD_RIP]

16 hours ago, Comstedt86 said:

AMD released new preview drivers with Frame Generation (AMD Fluid Motion Frames) yesterday.

Compatable with 6000 Series as well now.

The Preview Drivers need DCS to run in the "Full-Screen Exclusive" Mode. From my 30 minutes of testing, it looks like the DCS "*Full-Screen" option is insufficient to Enable Fluid Motion in the current AMD Beta Driver. Testing on my RX 6800. 

[Comstedt86]

7 hours ago, YSIAD_RIP said:

The Preview Drivers need DCS to run in the "Full-Screen Exclusive" Mode. From my 30 minutes of testing, it looks like the DCS "*Full-Screen" option is insufficient to Enable Fluid Motion in the current AMD Beta Driver. Testing on my RX 6800. 

Works for me on a 6800XT in DCS.

[YSIAD_RIP]

11 hours ago, Comstedt86 said:

Works for me on a 6800XT in DCS.

Thanks.  I managed to get Fluid Motion Frames working after I disconnected my two Portrait Monitors and uninstalled then re-installed the AMD Preview Driver 23.30.01.02 using DDU.

Sadly - It stopped working after some time of tweaking and testing. 

These are Beta drivers so I will look forward to better stability in the future - NO Rush.

 

 

[SkateZilla]

Users should understand, there's two different Types of FMF Engines.

FSR 3.0 uses FMF on a Rendering Engine Level, using Motion vectors and Optical Flow Data to create the images.
Non FSR 3.0, uses FMF on a Driver Level and does not use MV or OF Data, and image quality suffers.

This will also not take 24-40 FPS Games and make them instantly 60+ FPS.

The Tech docs and requirements for Driver level FMF Require:
-55+ FPS in 1080P
-70+ FPS in 1440P
-VSYNC ENABLED
-Radeon Enhanced Sync DISABLED.
-FreeSync will automatically be disabled.

 

In Summary, this are not the droids your looking for.
 

Edited October 8, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Comstedt86]

11 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Users should understand, there's two different Types of FMF Engines.

FSR 3.0 uses FMF on a Rendering Engine Level, using Motion vectors and Optical Flow Data to create the images.
Non FSR 3.0, uses FMF on a Driver Level and does not use MV or OF Data, and image quality suffers.

This will also not take 24-40 FPS Games and make them instantly 60+ FPS.

The Tech docs and requirements for Driver level FMF Require:
-55+ FPS in 1080P
-70+ FPS in 1440P
-VSYNC ENABLED
-Radeon Enhanced Sync DISABLED.
-FreeSync will automatically be disabled.

 

In Summary, this are not the droids your looking for.
 

 

FYI you quoted requirements incorrectly. As per AMDs recommendations.

 

Fullscreen Mode & HDR Disabled

VSYNC - Disabled

Freesync display preffered

Enhanced Sync - User defined? (Acc. To Adrenalin it does not conflict with AFMF)

One thing to note is above 1440P turning on AFMF is quite costly and wont magically give you double frames since your natively amount of rendered frames will go down when enabling it due to rendering costs. 

The AFMF technical preview currently requires the game to be played in fullscreen mode with HDR disabled and VSYNC disabled. 
For the optimal experience, AFMF is recommended to be used on AMD FreeSync™ Displays.

AFMF adds frame generation technology to boost FPS outside of the game’s engine. To see the resulting FPS, use the AMD Software Performance Metrics Overlay. Support for third-party performance monitoring tools is not available at this moment.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Comstedt86

[SkateZilla]

32 minutes ago, Comstedt86 said:

FYI you quoted requirements incorrectly. As per AMDs recommendations.

 

Fullscreen Mode & HDR Disabled

VSYNC - Disabled

Freesync display preffered

Enhanced Sync - User defined? (Acc. To Adrenalin it does not conflict with AFMF)

One thing to note is above 1440P turning on AFMF is quite costly and wont magically give you double frames since your natively amount of rendered frames will go down when enabling it due to rendering costs. 

The AFMF technical preview currently requires the game to be played in fullscreen mode with HDR disabled and VSYNC disabled. 
For the optimal experience, AFMF is recommended to be used on AMD FreeSync™ Displays.

AFMF adds frame generation technology to boost FPS outside of the game’s engine. To see the resulting FPS, use the AMD Software Performance Metrics Overlay. Support for third-party performance monitoring tools is not available at this moment.

 

Apologies, I was typing on phone and auto correct re-did half my reply, but yes:
-Exclusive Full Screen Mode
-HDR Disabled

One thing to note, the Driver level FMF also Auto-Disables if the pixel shift/jitter/motion is above a certain threshold.

So you may get it to work during startup and taxi, but once your start your take off roll, depending on the motion of the scenery around you, it would auto disable anyway.

[Nedum]

DLSS = only nVidia GPUs, starting with the 20xx series

DLSS 3.5 != DLSS

DLSS 3.5 = no FG without 4xxx series GPU

DLSS 3.5 = does need Raytracing enabled to make it better as DLSS 2.x

DLSS 3.5 = for all RTX GPUs (starting with the 2xxx Series)

DLSS 2-3 = no need of Raytracing to benefit from the features

DLSS 3 = GPU 4xxx series only and coming with FG

FG = is only a good option if you already get high FPS (It's the same with FSR FG)

 

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/nvidia-launches-dlss-3-5-improved-ray-tracing-not-only-for-rtx-4000-ada/

DLSS 3.5 does not imply DLSS 3

According to Nvidia, DLSS 3.5 as we have just described it should work on all GeForce graphics cards with tensor cores, i.e. on GeForce RTX 2000, 3000 and 4000. It doesn’t require the new dedicated special-purpose units from the Ada Lovelace generation GPUs, unlike DLSS 3. Nevertheless, beware that “DLSS 3.5” in this sense doesn’t mean a fully replacement (or superset) of DLSS 3, although the naming convention implies this.

The Frame Generation technology (that inserts frames interpolated from the game’s frames that aren’t rendered by the actual game), which until now has been referred to as DLSS 3, will still require the dedicated hardware of GeForce RTX 4000 graphics cards. The announcement of DLSS 3.5 does not mean that you will now get Frame Generation with GeForce RTX 2000 and 3000 generation graphics cards. In that regard, the designation chosen by Nvidia isn’t very fortunate.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Nedum

[Droning_On]

I downloaded the demo drivers to AFMF last night to have a play on my 6700XT…..    I have MSAA at x2 and SSAA at x1.5….   in a heavy single player mission i get a solid 60fps -70fps with AFMF off.  When I switch AFMF on the DCS framerates take a bit of a drop, 1 or 2 fps,  but AMD performance monitor notes FPS up at to, and above 120fps !!!!  Like whats been said before with AFMF on and a driver forced FPS at 120 it does stutter when head tracking and its not as smooth as you would expect.  It also breaks Vsync so I got some screen tearing.   

Native GPU frame generation is the way to go for smoothness at the moment,  but It should be noted that this is an AMD DEMO technology and has huge potential, but it’s not there yet for gaming.

Link below if you want to try but only do so if your comfortable mucking about with AMDs drivers

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-23-30-afmf-tech-preview

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Droning_On

[Comstedt86]

11 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Apologies, I was typing on phone and auto correct re-did half my reply, but yes:
-Exclusive Full Screen Mode
-HDR Disabled

One thing to note, the Driver level FMF also Auto-Disables if the pixel shift/jitter/motion is above a certain threshold.

So you may get it to work during startup and taxi, but once your start your take off roll, depending on the motion of the scenery around you, it would auto disable anyway.

I believe it's only tied to your own movement inputs and not scenery.