Spotting dot bugs in VR

[Sarowa]

1. Spotting dots are very large in VR. With my Valve Index, at certain ranges, both the dot and model are rendered. In this situation, the dot can obscure the aircraft, such that I can't see the aircraft model and its heading and attitude. I'd like to see some kind of slider to reduce the dot size.
2. Dots disappear seemingly at random based upon where I'm looking and whether I'm using no zoom, VR zoom, or VR spyglass zoom.
3. Aircraft at ~2nm (3.5km) only have the model rendered, no dot. With no zoom, aircraft can be extremely difficult to see at this range*. The abrupt change from a huge dot to a tiny model (or vice versa) is extremely jarring. Maybe add a slider to adjust the minimum dot range?

*I'm a pilot IRL and I can easily spot tiny aircraft like the C172 at 2nm

Edited December 30, 2023 by Sarowa
changed "student pilot IRL" to "pilot IRL"

[SharpeXB]

This might be the solution here, from the changelog:

”Improved “spotting dots” added (WIP):

Increased dot size at high resolutions

Zoom is not affecting dots size

In order to disable new “spotting dots” and revert to previous logic user can put “DotRendererExperiment = False” in autoexec.cfg file located in \Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\”

Also this:

”NEW: LOD Switch Factor. The Level of Detail (LOD) slider allows you to adjust the distance at which a unit transitions to lower level of detail models. 1 is the default value, but by setting a lower value, game performance can be increased.”

Edited October 19, 2023 by SharpeXB

[dobs]

Have you played with LOD slider?  I'm not seeing the huge dots/obscuring issue.... I did try DLSS in VR and it made aircraft indistinct until within 3000'.

Disabled DLSS, and so far so good... 

I'm with you that that magic spot where dot goes to plane is a little broke... Have to padlock in zoom to see them...and that kills your SA.

 

[Sarowa]

Just now, SharpeXB said:

This might be the solution here, from the changelog:

”Improved “spotting dots” added (WIP):

Increased dot size at high resolutions

Zoom is not affecting dots size

In order to disable new “spotting dots” and revert to previous logic user can put “DotRendererExperiment = False” in autoexec.cfg file located in \Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\”

The old dots had similar problems, they were just less obvious due to their smaller size. As such, I'm not interested in reverting. I'd rather see the new system improved.

3 minutes ago, dobs said:

Have you played with LOD slider?  I'm not seeing the huge dots/obscuring issue.... I did try DLSS in VR and it made aircraft indistinct until within 3000'.

Disabled DLSS, and so far so good... 

I'm with you that that magic spot where dot goes to plane is a little broke... Have to padlock in zoom to see them...and that kills your SA.

 

I have DLSS disabled. I'll play with the LOD slider a bit more but my initial testing did not reveal any obvious changes.

[KoN]

Went online tonight and I must say I'm really happy with the spotting it was the first thing I noticed when I spawned in to the spitfire in VR.

I could make out the spitfires flying over the airfield I could see ships out on the coast . 

But like you said they are big dots , They cover up the airframe at a distance. Looking around in VR sometimes there would disappear then reappear . 

I think if we can make the 1080 dot smaller we might be on a winner. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by KoN

[Sarowa]

You can see the disappearing dots as I move my head around in this video, especially towards the end with the dots against the blue sky just above the horizon. When I'm looking at them, they're invisible, then reappear when I look to the side. They disappear when I look at them again.

 

[Sarowa]

Now you see them.

 

Now you don't. All I did was move my head very slightly. These images were taken less than 1 second apart.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Sarowa

[Sarowa]

My DCS settings:

Edited October 20, 2023 by Sarowa

[Sarowa]

6 hours ago, dobs said:

Have you played with LOD slider?  I'm not seeing the huge dots/obscuring issue.... I did try DLSS in VR and it made aircraft indistinct until within 3000'.

Disabled DLSS, and so far so good... 

I'm with you that that magic spot where dot goes to plane is a little broke... Have to padlock in zoom to see them...and that kills your SA.

 

I played with the LOD slider some more and saw no changes with regards to aircraft spotting.

[Elvis1325]

Hi, I was having a similar issue. I also didn't really notice a difference with the LOD slider (I tried 0.1 and 2 settings back and forth respectively, but I also tried using the default 1). I might have to try take a photo of the VR lens with my phone camera tomorrow, because my recordings don't seem to show what I am seeing in the headset. The dots can be really massive sometimes after the new update (and I now have an even harder time determining distance to an aircraft visually). I was playing with DLSS on, "balanced" on one attempt, and "quality" on another attempt.

Although I haven't tried to play today without DLSS yet, but I can attempt it tomorrow!

[MoleUK]

4 hours ago, Sarowa said:

Now you see them.

 

Now you don't. All I did was move my head very slightly. These images were taken less than 1 second apart.

 

Haven't had time to test it yet but looks similar to the old problem:

 

[YoYo]

I didnt check it yet, however I was quite nice what it was in VR for me (2.8). There was a mod for spotting dot and I even checked it, but I quickly uninstalled it because the dot in VR looked terrible, like a flying box. I hope it's not that bad, I haven't tested it yet 2.9, Today later.

I will add that manual modification is a terrible idea, because it affects online combat for example.

[VirKoV]

Same here. LOD slider doesn't work, and adding autoexec.cfg line fix aparently has no effect. Still big dots appear.

[YoYo]

7 minutes ago, VirKoV said:

Same here. LOD slider doesn't work, and adding autoexec.cfg line fix aparently has no effect. Still big dots appear.

Hmmm .....

So maybe this:

"NEW: LOD Switch Factor. The Level of Detail (LOD) slider allows you to adjust the distance at which a unit transitions to lower level of detail models. 1 is the default value, but by setting a lower value, game performance can be increased." and "In order to disable new “spotting dots” and revert to previous logic user can put “DotRendererExperiment = False” in autoexec.cfg file located in \Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\"

works only for 2D, not for VR @BIGNEWY ?

[Sile]

My feedback.

I don't need bigger dots in my Quest Pro or G2, but my squadron mate needs them in his aero with nearly double the PPD.

So:

1. Please let the autoexec.cfg config entry work for VR Users. Or even better - add an ingame option somewhere.

2. Maybe rethink the dot scaling / resolution ratios. The dots seem to be just about right for 2D/monitor and for High Res Headset users (Crystal, Varjo).
    But they are WAY too big in (relatively) low res headset. (Quest 2, Pro, G2, ...)
    

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Sile

[Branimir76]

I never had any problems with spotting in VR till 2.9.
This is a disaster.  And no fix. So, I cannot do anything until somebody fixes it.

[TAIPAN_]

3 hours ago, Sile said:

My feedback.

I don't need bigger dots in my Quest Pro or G2, but my squadron mate needs them in his aero with nearly double the PPD.

So:

1. Please let the autoexec.cfg config entry work for VR Users. Or even better - add an ingame option somewhere.

2. Maybe rethink the dot scaling / resolution ratios. The dots seem to be just about right for 2D/monitor and for High Res Headset users (Crystal, Varjo).
    But they are WAY too big in (relatively) low res headset. (Quest 2, Pro, G2, ...)
    

 

 

This. 

 

Almost need a slider in settings because making them smaller would break high res headset spotting but some lower res prefer smaller dots. 

[some1]

On a Quest Pro, the dots look way, way oversized. And that's with resolution cranked to the max and PD 1.2 in DCS. Also the ejected crew falling on parachutes are given exactly the same size dots as the whole aircraft. Very confusing.

20 nm, I don't even need a radar to spot targets:

10 nm, dots are the size of a building.

5 nm, like holes in the sky.

4nm targets.... what targets? At this distance the dots turn off in an instant, and we're back to regular DCS spotting.

1.5nm, well, now you can see them again. Sort of. If you don't blink.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by some1

[YoYo]

The ground targets also look very large , the element of surprise has been lost. Big bricks only. Pls check it and fix it.

@Flappie any chances to put it as wish for the team? 

In VR, the current dots are way too big, whether they are in the air or on the ground. The element of surprise is lost, previously they were too small, now they are too big. Preferably something halfway ;).

[Doc3908]

Can the "spotting dots" be disabled? I never had a problem spotting things before. These are just ridiculous and totally ruin the gameplay. They remind me of the old "dot-labels", but even they were done less obtrusively.  These new "spotting dots" are everywhere: Just played a WWII bomber intercept mission and when all these B-17 got shot down, the sky was covered with black dots representing parachutes at a distance... 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi the team are looking at the feedback and we will be tweaking for future updates. 

thank you

[Johan4668]

In Hi res the dots are nice.. finally i can use my vario on the highest settings no jitters and so on.. but that you like to reduce the dot on lower res that is understandable.. a button on and off then a slider to adjust will be perfect to make everyone happy .. iam happy about this modification.. if it gets smaller I don't see it anymore..  ps I fly 90% ww2 

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi the team are looking at the feedback and we will be tweaking for future updates. 

thank you

Great, Thank You!

Here's a slightly different example and while it looks OK on the screen (or even very ok), unfortunately the impression in VR is that the dot is very large (2D image doesn't show it). Maybe there should be a different spotting dots system for VR? Something in between? 

Edited October 20, 2023 by YoYo

[MoleUK]

 

[MoleUK]