resolved New spotting is great / New spotting is overcooked feedback thread

[SharpeXB]

43 minutes ago, sthompson said:

I see no problem with giving player control over visibility, provided multiplayer servers have the option to turn it off. A lot of the user base is not on multiplayer.

Well the MP population is small already, it’s not good to fragment it even more. The whole goal I’m sure here is to arrive at a solution that works for everyone. 

19 minutes ago, ColinM9991 said:

Instead, let's allow server owners to override local client spotting settings to ensure fairness

That was already tried with the previous Model Enlargement experiment and part of why it failed. Let’s not go there again. 

[Sarowa]

Please check out my thread here too.

 

[Pavlin_33]

23 hours ago, Licenceless said:

nullI know it's a cut out of the screenshot so it's zoomed in but represents what i see in VR better

null

 

 

This is what happens when community pushes for something they feel should be correct. No offense, but these look like "Independence Day" alien mother ships.

[TheFreshPrince]

I'm playing in 2K and before the update it was very hard to spot any enemy aircraft. Now I can see fighter jets as a dark black spot over 11 miles (that's about 18km), which IRL seems impossible. There should be some fading and a reasonable spotting distance somewhat inbetween.

 

Just for reference, you can barely see a huge airliner (about twice as long and 4 times as wide as a fighter jet) at altitude from the ground. That's 30000ft or 5.7 miles or 9km. There's no way you can spot a small F-16 over 11-12 miles. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by TheFreshPrince

[dresoccer4]

How does the new spotting work? Do we need to enable it? How is it different?

[CrazyGman]

Absolutely hate the new dot system. Completely immersion breaking. Look I have a 1440P monitor, and play cold war the most often, and I was able to spot targets just fine. Does it require some training and practice...yes, but it's easily doable. 

I originally went from a 1080p 17 inch laptop screen to my current screen that is 1440P 27 inch, and have always been able to find planes at realistic distances. Now the current dots are just horrible in my opinion.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all, 

can you be sure to let us know your resolution and attach your options.lua from saved games dcs config folder

also let us know if you are using VR 

thank you

[Biggus]

As a very enthusiastic adopter of the dot fix mod when it passed IC, I've got to say this is a large step in the right direction.

3440x1440, I am able to visually pick up a Fencer at just under 20nm if I know where to look.  This is probably a bit too far away to be seen, IMO and I don't think the original dot mod would have rendered an aircraft at that distance.  At ranges under 8nm, the scaling seems pretty reasonable.  I still have a hard time spotting aircraft, but when I'm able to visually track one, I feel like I haven't had any of those moments where a LOD change renders them invisible.

I also have a G2 but I haven't yet tested that properly.  I'll report back when I get a chance to do so.

Good job so far, ED.

Options.lua

[PeevishMonkey]

1 час назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

resolution

2560x1440

Sorry, but current DOTs awful. There are not only aircrafts but ground units too.

In 2.8 it was better.

options.lua

[PeevishMonkey]

35 минут назад, PeevishMonkey сказал:

2560x1440

BTW, FOV 97.5 deg and I see change to black dot at distance 2km.

[TheFreshPrince]

2560x1440 (no VR)

options.lua

[Fresh]

I'm using an HP Reverb G2 VR goggle. I can't get the autoexec.cfg line to work, so I can't switch this off. The dot comes suddenly just as the original object view fades out.

Using native VR resolution at 60 Hz

options.lua

Edited October 21, 2023 by Fresh

[Fish]

For me this is a backward step. In VR (Pico 4 render resolution 3270), objects appear as large blobs when they fade to a set distance, or come within a set distance.

You can see what happens in the video below. The flight of F14's bank left after take-off, so I get a view of them broadside. While the AC fades in the video (due to limited pico recording resolution, I can see a feint object in VR throughout. At 51s you can see the 'popup' of the AC to a black blob, much larger than when it was fading away to that distance. The other ac do the same. Same happens with the ships, and I'm guessing other objects. This is more pronounced in VR than you can see in the 2d, but still obvious in the video. Something is clearly wrong here. Tested the same replay in 2D, and everything looks fine. 

Maybe its to facilitate lower resolutions, but I would like higher resolutions to be facilitated also, as this is the direction headsets are going. 

 

options.lua

Edited October 22, 2023 by Fish

[CrazyGman]

8 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi all, 

can you be sure to let us know your resolution and attach your options.lua from saved games dcs config folder

also let us know if you are using VR 

thank you

options.lua

1440p

No VR

[CrazyGman]

So if you use DLSS with 0.5 sharpness it's actually not too bad. but using MSAA is where it is "VERY" jarring.  

[metzger]

Reberb G2 in native resolution, DLSS quality + sharpness .5

Spotting feels good to me. Dots are not too big neither visible from very far

Edited October 21, 2023 by metzger

[SharpeXB]

It should be an important goal that this feature won’t be open to exploits or hacking in order to create giant blobs over opponents without them realizing it. It should create consistent results for all. It’s encouraging so far that as much as I can tell, it’s not an advantage on a monitor to deliberately lower your resolution and get bigger dots. That’s good. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Johan4668]

I am happy, on VR is is better on 2880x2720 a little bigger but please don't make it smaller. I think there must be an on off button and a slider that everyone is happy.. i understand that is you are using lower resolution you dont want multiple big dots on your screen. I Wil make a few videos on different resolutions and give my comments. For now it is mutch better and wil be good... thx..

[James DeSouza]

I am amazed the amount of people saying this is good.  You could get the exact same effect as this by playing with labels on.  Why force this awful thing on to other people?  "Hey you know what would make this game better?  Have everyone's positions constantly broadcast to you by giant floating blocks!"

 

On an index, 150% resolution in steam VR (the default) and 100% resolution in DCS.

 

Hell I don't care if it puts me at a disadvantage.  Just give me an option to disable this ridiculous eyesore.

 

 

options.lua

Edited October 22, 2023 by James DeSouza
Lua and screen.

[KoN]

The dots needs tweaking.

The render from large black dot to 3d drawn aircraft needs tweaking. Also in VR these dots are like 1080p pixel. It's large . 

Again if this dot was halfway in size would be better. 

But across the board all the targets are large black dots in VR. 

Is there any chance of light reflections of canopy ect , this also will help at spotting. Maybe in Vulkan . 

Without being rude to DCS maybe look and see how other sims have solved the spotting problem. There got to be some technology there DCS can work with. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by KoN

[KoN]

44 minutes ago, James DeSouza said:

I am amazed the amount of people saying this is good.  You could get the exact same effect as this by playing with labels on.  Why force this awful thing on to other people?  "Hey you know what would make this game better?  Have everyone's positions constantly broadcast to you by giant floating blocks!"

 

On an index, 150% resolution in steam VR (the default) and 100% resolution in DCS.

 

Hell I don't care if it puts me at a disadvantage.  Just give me an option to disable this ridiculous eyesore.

 

 

options.lua 8.34 kB · 2 downloads

 

In VR yes the dots are big and ugly , but for flat screen with 2k and 4k resolution it works for them . I think there is a bug in VR. 

I'm sure things will get better. 

[Biggus]

48 minutes ago, James DeSouza said:

I am amazed the amount of people saying this is good.  You could get the exact same effect as this by playing with labels on.  Why force this awful thing on to other people?  "Hey you know what would make this game better?  Have everyone's positions constantly broadcast to you by giant floating blocks!"

 

On an index, 150% resolution in steam VR (the default) and 100% resolution in DCS.

 

Hell I don't care if it puts me at a disadvantage.  Just give me an option to disable this ridiculous eyesore.

 

 

options.lua 8.34 kB · 2 downloads

 

Because that's not what everybody sees.  It varies with software settings, hardware and resolution.  ED's task is to now find a way to provide spotting parity across all of those variables.

[rob10]

3 hours ago, Biggus said:

Because that's not what everybody sees.  It varies with software settings, hardware and resolution.  ED's task is to now find a way to provide spotting parity across all of those variables.

This, exactly this.  Flew a mission with my squadron tonight and it was great.  In 2-D on MY setup it works great (and no, it's nothing like having labels on).  It was nice to be able to see my wingman when we went to combat spread.  I'm sure ED will keep working on this, but for everyone saying lets go back, I say please no because I couldn't see things before.

[CrazyGman]

4 hours ago, KoN said:

In VR yes the dots are big and ugly , but for flat screen with 2k and 4k resolution it works for them . I think there is a bug in VR. 

I'm sure things will get better. 

I use flat screen, and can confirm it does NOT work for me at all. Never needed it running 1440p on 27 inch screen, and I play competitive cold war multiplayer where spotting with just your eyes is essential. if your run DLSS then it's fine, the blurriness obfuscates how terrible looking it is, but god forbid you use MSAA.

[James DeSouza]

5 hours ago, KoN said:

In VR yes the dots are big and ugly , but for flat screen with 2k and 4k resolution it works for them . I think there is a bug in VR. 

I'm sure things will get better. 

Even outside of VR, you shouldn't be seeing black dots.  I just don't want any of that artificial spotting at all.  I mean even if you have perfect eyes you're not going to be seeing a fighter at 10nm.  Minimum size you can differentiate at that distance with perfect idealized 20/20 and absolute black-white contrast is a 10 foot object, never mind looking at a greyish jet against a greyish sky.  It's especially bad in VR yeah, but just in general it's bad.

 

Ultimately though if other people want it that's fair enough, but just give an option to disable it.

Edited October 22, 2023 by James DeSouza