MiG-29A FF: capabilities and how will it fit into the (meta)game?

[okopanja]

1 minute ago, AeriaGloria said:

Which it loads and fires fine? 

Still no R-60 on ground targets?

[AeriaGloria]

Just now, okopanja said:

Still no R-60 on ground targets?

No, maybe by time MiG-29 comes out…. Clouds blocking IR sensors was Atleast in latest newsletter. Will make IRST use very dynamic

[Pavlin_33]

4 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Which it loads and fires fine? 
 

As for SPO-15, I’ve heard things that if Nike is in area then it will use it as priority above all other emitters. But nothing about 2 hz launch tone

 

Well I kind of explained wrong way around. The 2Hz flashing red light and the beeping sound we already have when there's a missle launch. It's just that the manual only mentiones it in context of a Nike launch and nothing else.

[okopanja]

35 minutes ago, Pavlin_33 said:

Well I kind of explained wrong way around. The 2Hz flashing red light and the beeping sound we already have when there's a missle launch. It's just that the manual only mentiones it in context of a Nike launch and nothing else.

1. Nike is mentioned as the most dangerous, soon after it refers to less dangerous emitters
2. There is statically lit scale indicating strength of the emitter, and statement that it can be used to determine the distance.
3. If I read this correctly flashing 2Hz light on the signal strength scale indicates the distance of the zone of the destruction of the main armament. Is this what you meant?

[AeriaGloria]

Going to be exciting to see the signal strength bar modeled to full fidelity, and what approach of the many different explanations that manuals give. Some seem indicate that the cartridges are made so that signal strength bar shows equal values at equal ranges for different strength radars (unlike currently), and there are some that show when you are in lock/missile range and act as an approximate countdown to impact once missile launch is detected.,

Edited January 12, 2024 by AeriaGloria

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

No, maybe by time MiG-29 comes out…. Clouds blocking IR sensors was Atleast in latest newsletter. Will make IRST use very dynamic

Well, the next fun part is that IRST should detect clouds as "hot/warm"...  And either see them as clutter, and/or reduce lock ranges if there is cloud behind the target.

 

Edited January 12, 2024 by Harlikwin

[AeriaGloria]

3 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Well, the next fun part is that IRST should detect clouds as "hot/warm"...  And either see them as clutter, and/or reduce lock ranges if there is cloud behind the target.

 

 

Yeah…. Manual says 4-9 km lock range against 0/4-1/4 aspect target against clouds, 6-10 km against earth background, 12-18 km in optimum conditions at above 5 km 

[Harlikwin]

15 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Yeah…. Manual says 4-9 km lock range against 0/4-1/4 aspect target against clouds, 6-10 km against earth background, 12-18 km in optimum conditions at above 5 km 

Yup... Pretty standard thermal contrast things for IRST. Anything "warm" is gonna reduce the contrast/lock/detect range of the Mig29 IRST. And IR signals are absorbed by water molecules and atmosphere in general, so the less of it the better so it works better at high alt vs other high alt things. I'm sure the detect range vs a Mach3 SR71 is 100km+ or so. 

Edited January 13, 2024 by Harlikwin

[WinterH]

6 minutes ago, DisplayName said:

I thought the R-27R and R-27T was actually a thing

Well I did too, but sometimes things commonly believed end up proving to be "fudd lore". Don't get me wrong, not saying it definitely isn't possible, but if the system works as described it does seem like a distinct possibility that this may not be supported, we'll find out I guess.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

18 minutes ago, DisplayName said:

R-27T which is on the right and thus firing second

Wouldn’t it make more sense to fire the R-27T first, to prevent it from locking on to the exhaust plume of the R-27R?

I heard it was common doctrine to fire both IR and radar guided on the same target…

[okopanja]

1 hour ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Wouldn’t it make more sense to fire the R-27T first, to prevent it from locking on to the exhaust plume of the R-27R?

I heard it was common doctrine to fire both IR and radar guided on the same target…

You can do 2 things:

1. either fire R-27T first, followed by R-27R

2. or fire R-27R first, wait for burn time to complete and fire R-27T

Edited January 13, 2024 by okopanja

[some1]

I don't think R-27T was used on early MiG-29 variants. Maybe as a later mod/update.

Edited January 13, 2024 by some1

[Avimimus]

14 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Which it loads and fires fine? 

In the trailer they show it carrying them. In the released version we are limited to V20 pods.

[Tarres]

As some1 said, no 27T for the 9.12. 

[Harlikwin]

7 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Wouldn’t it make more sense to fire the R-27T first, to prevent it from locking on to the exhaust plume of the R-27R?

I heard it was common doctrine to fire both IR and radar guided on the same target…

Yeah thats how it was done. 

6 hours ago, some1 said:

I don't think R-27T was used on early MiG-29 variants. Maybe as a later mod/update.

 

Again, the US pilots flying the downgraded E. german ones talk about the IR seeker R27... So yes it was wired for it. 

[Falconeer]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:54 AM, DisplayName said:

And Reference the DCS Apache: There are AH64Ds with air-to-air missiles, but because the specific Apache that we have in DCS does not have such missiles is why it isn't an option. 

Our Apache can't fit missile launchers, because of the Missile Warning System mounted on the outer wing surfaces. But Hellfires are a good substitude

[some1]

3 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah thats how it was done. 

Not really, as the manual I have explicitly says that the weapons on symmetrical pylons should be of the same type and version. So no mixed rockets salvos. But that manual also does not mention R-27T at all, so who knows how things worked when that weapon was added.

Edited January 13, 2024 by some1

[exhausted]

4 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah thats how it was done. 

Again, the US pilots flying the downgraded E. german ones talk about the IR seeker R27... So yes it was wired for it. 

USAF exchange pilots said the MiG-29Gs were wired for R-27Ts but they were not deployed.

[Pavlin_33]

On 1/12/2024 at 11:08 PM, okopanja said:

1. Nike is mentioned as the most dangerous, soon after it refers to less dangerous emitters
2. There is statically lit scale indicating strength of the emitter, and statement that it can be used to determine the distance.
3. If I read this correctly flashing 2Hz light on the signal strength scale indicates the distance of the zone of the destruction of the main armament. Is this what you meant?

I am talking about the "red" middle light that flashes, a long with audible beeping tone, when there's a missile launch.
Cookbook of the export version of the MiGgy mentions it only in context of "Nike Hercules" missile launch. It makes me wonder if other missile launches can be detected or not.
I guess yes, but there's no mention of them in the documentation.

[Harlikwin]

6 hours ago, some1 said:

Not really, as the manual I have explicitly says that the weapons on symmetrical pylons should be of the same type and version. So no mixed rockets salvos. But that manual also does not mention R-27T at all, so who knows how things worked when that weapon was added.

 

Which manual specifically. Cuz there are russian ones, polish ones, czech ones, Serbian ones etc.

5 hours ago, exhausted said:

USAF exchange pilots said the MiG-29Gs were wired for R-27Ts but they were not deployed.

Yeah same thing as the ER/ET... The E. Germans were just cheap, never bought the missiles. Same thing with CZ migs, they never bought the R73, so they used R60M... But no one is gonna argue that the 9.12 couldn't use the R-73... 

Edited January 14, 2024 by Harlikwin

[okopanja]

2 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Which manual specifically. Cuz there are russian ones, polish ones, czech ones, Serbian ones etc.

Yeah same thing as the ER/ET... The E. Germans were just cheap, never bought the missiles. Same thing with CZ migs, they never bought the R73, so they used R60M... But no one is gonna argue that the 9.12 couldn't use the R-73... 

 

LOL

Same things were discussed 18 years ago. Some of the community follow the logic of lawyers, insisting on document they may have is a proof of limitations.

However they often forget that the manuals are updated, and their own copy may not be up to date.

Just to add that ED roughly stated: "R-27 familiy and R-73"... as a part of larger Mig-29 project.

I am pretty sure that they have more complete informmation.

[some1]

5 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Which manual specifically.

Polish one.

2 hours ago, okopanja said:

However they often forget that the manuals are updated, and their own copy may not be up to date.

Just to add that ED roughly stated: "R-27 familiy and R-73"... as a part of larger Mig-29 project.

I am pretty sure that they have more complete informmation.

It's more of a question of what will be the cutoff point for ED. You could argue the same way, that our F-16 block is "wired" for APKWS and bunch of other weapons, good luck with convincing ED to add them.

Personally I don't mind having extra weapons to choose from, the more the merrier.

[okopanja]

14 minutes ago, some1 said:

Polish one.

It's more of a question of what will be the cutoff point for ED. You could argue the same way, that our F-16 block is "wired" for APKWS and bunch of other weapons, good luck with convincing ED to add them.

Personally I don't mind having extra weapons to choose from, the more the merrier.

Not familiar to which requirements APKWS imposes on avionics, but for 29 it's plain and simple. The thing that will be a subject change is they way it guides before the SARH heads become active. Perhaps we do not get instant launch warnings anymore?

[pepin1234]

20 hours ago, Tarres said:

As some1 said, no 27T for the 9.12. 

that's totally wrong! Stop tell false information. Before you told only 20 Mig-29S were on Russian Air force and now Mig-29A never use R-27T...!!! every single user of Mig-29A have both missiles variants. 

[Volator]

2 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

every single user of Mig-29A have both missiles variants

You probably mean "theoretically, every single user of MiG-29A could use both missile variants", because according to my book source, the East German AF for example never aquired the R-27T, only the R-27R.