MiG-29A FF: capabilities and how will it fit into the (meta)game?

[Fighter29]

8 minutes ago, Volator said:

You probably mean "theoretically, every single user of MiG-29A could use both missile variants", because according to my book source, the East German AF for example never aquired the R-27T, only the R-27R.

This is because they didn’t have them )). R-27T was quite a rare rocket even for USSR. 

[pepin1234]

9 minutes ago, Volator said:

You probably mean "theoretically, every single user of MiG-29A could use both missile variants", because according to my book source, the East German AF for example never aquired the R-27T, only the R-27R.

Not available for certain users in that particular time. 

[KrazyPilot]

On 1/10/2024 at 6:16 AM, pepin1234 said:

I will say Mig-25 was a very impressive fighter iconic of Cold War. ED can make export variants, as well late variants as the ex Soviets republics now NATO kept some of them, based them and they have retired pilots. Of course, for ED priority is western modules first. 

 

No, That is not how this works again as explained many times from ED that ANY aircraft the Russian Defense Currently use including The MiG-25 no matter the variant or where it is exported could and highly likely will cause legal issues. The ONLY reason the MiG-29A is even coming to us is because they had gotten prior approval before the law changes occured and probably got the go ahead from the proper channels. This is been stated afaik multiple times.

[pepin1234]

2 hours ago, Fighter29 said:

All planes 9.12 and 9.13 can use all R-27R,ER,T,ET,P,EP

 

ED have something to say about this picture. We were asking for the EP and P (passive for radiation seeker, goes to your radar signal)?? 

they probably need to see ones captured by Ukrainian. Then they will bring them to DCS.

2 hours ago, KrazyPilot said:

No, That is not how this works again as explained many times from ED that ANY aircraft the Russian Defense Currently use including The MiG-25 no matter the variant or where it is exported could and highly likely will cause legal issues. The ONLY reason the MiG-29A is even coming to us is because they had gotten prior approval before the law changes occured and probably got the go ahead from the proper channels. This is been stated afaik multiple times.

There we go again. But the very funny of this is that many people repeat everywhere that funny invention. With MiG-29 they were telling the same every where and every time.

[okopanja]

26 minutes ago, KrazyPilot said:

No, That is not how this works again as explained many times from ED that ANY aircraft the Russian Defense Currently use including The MiG-25 no matter the variant or where it is exported could and highly likely will cause legal issues.

Slight digression, since Mig-25 is my favorite airplane.

The last operator of Mig-25 is Algerian air force.  In 2022 they showed the last 3 in the air show.  There were supposed to withdraw them from the service. Although: not sure if this actually occurred.

https://en.topwar.ru/199817-mig-25-okonchatelnyj-uhod-v-istoriju.html

It should be noted that manuals for all variants appeared in internet recently. However, legal status is still unknown.

Perhaps shared heritage with Mig-31 could cause still the issues. It would be cool and if ED would in future implement this aircraft.

 

[KrazyPilot]

2 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

ED have something to say about this picture. We were asking for the EP and P (passive for radiation seeker, goes to your radar signal)?? 

they probably need to see ones captured by Ukrainian. Then they will bring them to DCS.

There we go again. But the very funny of this is that many people repeat everywhere that funny invention. With MiG-29 they were telling the same every where and every time.

"There we go again. But the very funny of this is that many people repeat everywhere that funny invention. With MiG-29 they were telling the same every where and every time." Do you actually have quotes? Screens? Ect? of this claim? Because literally the only thing I have ever read (From ED officially) is literally what I just quoted above. As for MiG-25 vs. MiG-31 thr Russian Ministry I do believe did not distinguish between the two atleast in the legal sense of the laws they implemented in recent years.. It may even be a pre-caution just to be safe. I much rather ED practice what they do best while also respecting the laws of those aircrafts Origins and more so to prevent any issue preventing ED from operating in general.. If any Third party feels confident enough to write the respective officials for permission and can obtain it I think that would be the best route to go.. But that is my opinion.. No one wants to see Multiple Models of MiG-29's and 25/31's than myself ESPECIALLY the Su-25 and her variants... Side Note, any Aircraft captured from ANY nation again does not mean it would be legal for them to utilize that information obtained if the Government of Origin does not give the Ok.. If a F-35 is captured from a foreign government and put everything online that would not mean ED would have the legal ability to utilize that information.. Just not how it works.. 

Edited January 14, 2024 by KrazyPilot

[BIGNEWY]

A reminder for all, please do not post real world manuals unless it complies with our 1.16 rule, which includes linking the source of the document showing it is unrestricted and unclassified for public use. 

thank you

[Ramius007]

Hopefully with FF Mig 29 we also get old APG 66 radar to simulate early A Viper in cold war setting, so playing field will be equal, while features like restricting helmet, DL and weapons are nice, it's still gives Viper pilots radar and ECM  adventage they shouldnt have in any cold war setting, and similar treatment for Hornet. Just as editor option we have for other systems

Edited January 14, 2024 by Ramius007

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, Ramius007 said:

Hopefully with FF Mig 29 we also get old APG 66 radar to simulate early A Viper in cold war setting, so playing field will be equal, while features like restricting helmet, DL and weapons are nice, it's still gives Viper pilots radar and ECM  adventage they shouldnt have in any cold war setting, and similar treatment for Hornet. Just as editor option we have for other systems

 

Last we heard ED nor other 3rd parties have plans to do a 16A, so the mig29 will have to snack on F4's. 

8 hours ago, some1 said:

Polish one.

It's more of a question of what will be the cutoff point for ED. You could argue the same way, that our F-16 block is "wired" for APKWS and bunch of other weapons, good luck with convincing ED to add them.

Personally I don't mind having extra weapons to choose from, the more the merrier.

Yeah most likely the Poles didn't buy the 27T. As others have said it was "rare". 

[Pavlin_33]

If we get proper GCI link, neither will 27T , matter nor the "crappy" (less capable) EOS. You will have a target on the HUD provided by the ground stations.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Pavlin_33

[AeriaGloria]

3 hours ago, Pavlin_33 said:

If we get proper GCI link, meither will 27T , matter nor the "crappy" (less capable) EOS. You will have a target on the HUD provided by the ground stations.

Within LOS and radio range

[Harlikwin]

30 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Within LOS and radio range

I think this is one factor that in general is done super badly in DCS. Like IRL fighters would almost always have a connection back to GCI, its just basic radio planning stuff, but DCS doesn't simulate re-broadcast stations etc for datalink at this point and there would be tons of them around if you read anything about how IADS was done soviet style.  I honestly hope ED and Razbam collaborate on this somehow because the mig23 will need it too. 

Edited January 15, 2024 by Harlikwin

[pepin1234]

13 hours ago, KrazyPilot said:

"There we go again. But the very funny of this is that many people repeat everywhere that funny invention. With MiG-29 they were telling the same every where and every time." Do you actually have quotes? Screens? Ect? of this claim? Because literally the only thing I have ever read (From ED officially) is literally what I just quoted above. As for MiG-25 vs. MiG-31 thr Russian Ministry I do believe did not distinguish between the two atleast in the legal sense of the laws they implemented in recent years.. It may even be a pre-caution just to be safe. I much rather ED practice what they do best while also respecting the laws of those aircrafts Origins and more so to prevent any issue preventing ED from operating in general.. If any Third party feels confident enough to write the respective officials for permission and can obtain it I think that would be the best route to go.. But that is my opinion.. No one wants to see Multiple Models of MiG-29's and 25/31's than myself ESPECIALLY the Su-25 and her variants... Side Note, any Aircraft captured from ANY nation again does not mean it would be legal for them to utilize that information obtained if the Government of Origin does not give the Ok.. If a F-35 is captured from a foreign government and put everything online that would not mean ED would have the legal ability to utilize that information.. Just not how it works.. 

 

You just told I am right. If you see before was officially told that was not possible make a Russian 4th gen because a particular reason…. (Don’t wanna repeat the same crap) then now we get a MiG-29 made by public manual. 
 

my question to you: WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? Saying again what we all know was not a real reason. Do you really think people gonna believe certain government gonna put in jail the programmer. There are documents and features out there even for new weapons. It’s a leak old Information not secret anymore, nothing that make any difference in the battlefield, because there are newer weapons already.
 

Moreover, there are weapons that were or are banned in this simulator, with the reason: "there is not proof of real use” Example of that is the S-25O. This rocket was not available for very long time. People asked and the answer was there were not proof for the real combat use. After the Ukraine war erupted, They brought the S-25O (by ED with super weak power destruction) to DCS. That was a real proof they are not going to take anything from Russia from manual or documents even when they are for real. It’s a game not a simulator. It’s a manipulation, not an implementation.

[AeriaGloria]

8 hours ago, Pavlin_33 said:

If we get proper GCI link, meither will 27T , matter nor the "crappy" (less capable) EOS. You will have a target on the HUD provided by the ground stations.

Went through manual, R-862 which receives the radio link has range of 120-350 km depending on altitude. Should be interesting 

 

3 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

They brought the S-25O (by ED with super weak power destruction) to DCS.

Not going to address everything else you wrote, but in my experience S-25O is very destructive. It may have a low LUA value but there is C++ coding behind that in DCS so LUA can’t always be trusted. Here is a picture a single S-25 did to many trucks 

Unfortunately, I don’t think we get that weapon in MiG-29 9.12, only B-8 pods and S-24. Looking forward to using it as a air to ground platform regardless 

Edited January 15, 2024 by AeriaGloria

[okopanja]

5 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

You just told I am right. If you see before was officially told that was not possible make a Russian 4th gen because a particular reason…. (Don’t wanna repeat the same crap) then now we get a MiG-29 made by public manual. 
 

my question to you: WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? Saying again what we all know was not a real reason. Do you really think people gonna believe certain government gonna put in jail the programmer. There are documents and features out there even for new weapons. It’s a leak old Information not secret anymore, nothing that make any difference in the battlefield, because there are newer weapons already.
 

Moreover, there are weapons that were or are banned in this simulator, with the reason: "there is not proof of real use” Example of that is the S-25O. This rocket was not available for very long time. People asked and the answer was there were not proof for the real combat use. After the Ukraine war erupted, They brought the S-25O (by ED with super weak power destruction) to DCS. That was a real proof they are not going to take anything from Russia from manual or documents even when they are for real. It’s a game not a simulator. It’s a manipulation, not an implementation.

Although I am firmly in 29 camp, lets try to put this aside.

Manuals do exist and we do not need to spend much time discussing what is realistic and what not, and I am pretty sure we will get what ED is allowed to simulate. At minimum I believe ET/ER are withing the limits.

[Silver_Dragon]

6 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

My question to you: WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? Saying again what we all know was not a real reason. Do you really think people gonna believe certain government gonna put in jail the programmer. There are documents and features out there even for new weapons. It’s a leak old Information not secret anymore, nothing that make any difference in the battlefield, because there are newer weapons already.

Do you remember what happened to an ED programmer for trying to sell an "open" manual outside of the USA? Now imagine what would happen to a Russian, if he made a Russian/Soviet plane without the approval of the Russian government.

I think that here, there have already been more than enough statements from ED and other 3rd parties, about what is happening regarding the construction of Russian modules, for you to come to distort a problem that is more than confirmed.

[Sabadin]

6 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

Do you really think people gonna believe certain government gonna put in jail the programmer.

It's already happened to ED once, that's why forum rule 1.16 exists.

[WinterH]

7 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

Do you really think people gonna believe certain government gonna put in jail the programmer.

Yes.

[BIGNEWY]

7 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

You just told I am right. If you see before was officially told that was not possible make a Russian 4th gen because a particular reason…. (Don’t wanna repeat the same crap) then now we get a MiG-29 made by public manual. 
 

my question to you: WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? Saying again what we all know was not a real reason. Do you really think people gonna believe certain government gonna put in jail the programmer. There are documents and features out there even for new weapons. It’s a leak old Information not secret anymore, nothing that make any difference in the battlefield, because there are newer weapons already.
 

Moreover, there are weapons that were or are banned in this simulator, with the reason: "there is not proof of real use” Example of that is the S-25O. This rocket was not available for very long time. People asked and the answer was there were not proof for the real combat use. After the Ukraine war erupted, They brought the S-25O (by ED with super weak power destruction) to DCS. That was a real proof they are not going to take anything from Russia from manual or documents even when they are for real. It’s a game not a simulator. It’s a manipulation, not an implementation.

Please just keep to the rules here on our forum, no classified or restricted documents, and no politics. 

Warnings will be handed out otherwise and we dont want that. 

thank you 

[okopanja]

5 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please just keep to the rules here on our forum, no classified or restricted documents, and no politics. 

Was that page really confirmed classified? Asking since after you removed the message, the URL of image was still hosted by forum software.

[BIGNEWY]

25 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Was that page really confirmed classified? Asking since after you removed the message, the URL of image was still hosted by forum software.

We have no way of knowing, which is why when posting we require a source showing it is unrestricted. 

We will always hide the post and ask questions later, we have to be very careful about this kind of thing for your and our safety. 

[Viper33]

5 hours ago, okopanja said:

Manuals do exist and we do not need to spend much time discussing what is realistic and what not, and I am pretty sure we will get what ED is allowed to simulate. At minimum I believe ET/ER are withing the limits.

ER and all the T variants are supported by the 9.12 29 out of the box. It's just a plug that tells the WCS what missile it carries. The reason why a lot of 9.12 operators did not use the ER was mostly weight an cost, as well as the radar not really taking full advantage of the ER anyway. The T and ET is mainly not used because it is too restrictive, requiring lock on before launch as well as haiving a limited coolant time. Ontop of that the T and ET should have worse aerodynamics due to the more rounded nose, resulting in less practical range. It's simply not as useful or fire and forget like it is in DCS.

But I guess we should wait until the 29 featurelist is annouced to confirm all of this. For any soviet era LARP you'd stick to the 27R anyway.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Viper33

[Pavlin_33]

1 hour ago, Viper33 said:

It's simply not as useful or fire and forget like it is in DCS.

All IR missiles are fire-and-forget. They require no external guidance.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Pavlin_33

[Viper33]

48 minutes ago, Pavlin_33 said:

All IR missiles are fire-and-forget. They require no external guidance.

 

That's not what I was getting at. It shouldn't track through clouds for one and also depend on atmospheric conditions. Actual lock on ranges will be much shorter than its useful range in most cases. All depends on how ED model it.

[CrazyGman]

I've read from a source that the MiG-29 with the centerline external tank is limited to mach 0.9 while the external tank is attached, can anyone confirm this?