Russian cockpit images used in English printed manual

[Frakin Toasters]

To be fair, the Russian cockpit is the stock cockpit isn't it? Does the English version of the game come with a translated cockpit?

[EtherealN]

Yes.

[MadTommy]

pbsmgm.. said it better than i did.

 

I'll happily continue using my pdf manual.

 

But my point is, if you think I'm buying a manual with all Russian cockpit labels etc, forget it.

 

And listen I'm loving this sim/game. And will continue to tell all that care to listen how good it is. So you DCS fanboys can calm down :D

 

It is very technical, and has a great manual, disregarding the screengrabs.

 

Maybe some of us are different, i'm visual person, images that match the cockpit/sim i'm trying to learn are an integral part of a manual like this. For me its a major flaw in the manual. I'd pinned my hopes on this 'English' extended version, might actually be the finished deal, but no.

 

Still love you DCS, just finish the English manual please. ;)

[Chizh]

Man this sucks. I found myself taking screenshots from my own cockpit so i could understand the buttons/features better. Viewing them along side the downloadable pdf.

 

There is no way i'm paying for this manual comprised of images in a language i don't understand. It doesn't take much work to get localised images and is to be expected, especially in English.

 

Sorry DSC team, but it seems a bit lazy of you. Shame i was looking forward to this manual.

Sorry MadTommy, but Russian cockpit is the real cockpit, English cockpit is the game fiction.

[Feuerfalke]

I don't know why this initial request is so much polarizing, honestly.

 

For learning the cockpit offline, the manual is pretty handy in the language you play the game, for simple reasons:

1. You learn the names and the functions and don't have to compare the English meaning the the Cyrillic labels.

2. As the panels are listed seperately, learning from the manual with Russian labels and no access to the game, then switching to the English cockpit, is quite disturbing, as you have to find the sniplets of the panels shown in the manual with the cockpit ingame.

3. This obviously takes some time and it obviously does not aid the learning process in the beginning.

After all, we are not talking about pros who know the game from previews and screenshots they studied. If you want to attract new players, you simply try to help and support them, you don't demand they learn the Russian labels, because it's more realistic.

And then, this request is as old as the wishlist and was stated there several times.

 

On the other hand, if you really know your way around in the pit, no matter if it is Russian or English, but want the explanation in English, you could simply modify the manual. It was done for other languages as well.

 

To the matter of the translated cockpit:

It's not translated completely anyway. There are several buttons and labels still in Russian, like the label of the EKRAN, for example. :smilewink:

 

 

Long post short: If you want it in Russian and play in Russian, that's nice for you. Denying it for fresh starters with the argument that the way you play it is more real, is pretty selfish and surely not supportive for newcomers, which are so desperately needed in this genre.

[einar-st]

Um, the manual that came with the English download has the cockpit in Russian as well.

 

This is the printed version of that same manual, with a few extras thrown in.

 

We asked for a printed version of the .pdf, as printing locally is far more expensive than a mass produced version, and got it.

 

Good gravy, I won't ever get into making flight sims - there is no pleasing people.

 

QFT... That is so friggin true. I felt a bit agitated almost reading through some of the comments. I'm completely at awe at how someone decides to buy/not buy the manual because of some pictures. And especially since the majority (I would guess) plays with the russian cockpit becuase of authenticity.

 

For christs sake finding the buttons isn't exactly rocket science, even with the cyrillic alphabet. I used the english cockpit to get to know the aircraft, and later switched to russian, but I never had any problems matching whatever was spoken about in the manual to the english cockpit.

 

It's not a big deal.

[einar-st]

Long post short: If you want it in Russian and play in Russian, that's nice for you. Denying it for fresh starters with the argument that the way you play it is more real, is pretty selfish and surely not supportive for newcomers, which are so desperately needed in this genre.

 

Come on... frankly if the russian images in the manual is severely hindering your learning process, I would guess you're playing the wrong game. And as people have said, it would be just as unfair to have english cockpit images to the people who play with the russian cockpit.

[192nd_Erdem]

Also, not to mention the huge amount of work needed to get ALL those pictures in English again. There's just no possibility.

[coolts]

Well, as someone who has extensive experience in training and providing training materials, if I was to provide materials to my users / trainees with RUSSIAN labels whilst they were looking at ENGLISH equipment, I would be out of a job pretty quickly, (or being chased by men with butterfly nets).

However, I have pre-ordered the manual and, although I groaned when Wags posted that the English manual would have the Cyrillic labels, (which does make the learning process much harder, let’s be honest), I am sure that I will figure it all out and it’s got to be better than squinting at a PDF or printing your own, (and cheaper).

There is also the extra content to consider, which, if you look at the contents pages, (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=39994), are quite extensive. For £20? Bargain.

Well done ED. Bring on the A-10! You can add Russian labels to that if you like ;)

C

[Legolasindar]

The text of manual have labels in english and cirilic, is easy understand and locate buttons in the picture. Example:

 

"Turn off the “ППМ” (Waypoints) push-light on the PVI-800 Navigation Control panel. This light and the WP indication number on the display will go out."

 

And in the start pages pictures have numbered butons and panel with the description. Is easy know what cirilic button is associated with english name.

The pictures in the manual with russian labels is not problem for learn.

 

I understand write diferents manuals with diferents language pictures is more dificult, and not its necessarily critical.

Yes, I would like the manual was in color, which takes pictures in English. But I understand that it can not be.

[Chizh]

Could somebody remind me about any a simulator manual with not original the cockpit label pictures?

Edited April 2, 2009 by Chizh

[EtherealN]

People just didn't notice that they were original since the originals were in english, and were quite certain that they were customized to fit them. :P

[Raz_Specter]

personally I would have liked the UK manual screen shots in English, if you are paying for an extra manual you would normally expect something in addition to what is actually included with the PDF.

 

I could have quite easily take the pdf down to staples and had it colour laser printed and bound rather than waiting to hear that the manual being printed is actually black and white.

 

Its like ED realease a fantastic game then state they are releasing a manual then put a downer on it by only doing it in Black and white.

 

for me I will be getting my pdf printed and not buying the other manual.

 

This is personnal preference, i hate black and white manuals as they feel cheap.

 

thanks Mithandra

[Acedy]

personally I would have liked the UK manual screen shots in English, if you are paying for an extra manual you would normally expect something in addition to what is actually included with the PDF.

 

Well, there is a lot more content in the printed manual that you don't get in the PDF.

[twobells]

Printed Manual: The facts?

 

Ok, I have to say how unhappy I am that the manual is NOT in colour, many of us would have paid the extra but there you go....

 

Anyway, now I have to consider my options.

I could go the way of Mad Dog Mq's superb example:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=40031

 

or stick to the forthcoming manual for £20.

Now I have heard that the new manual contains at least five new chapters, is this true and if so what does it cover?

 

Also, LionPride & Mad Dog McQ don't state which .pdf they use, is it the new UK version?

If so is it available to us all by way of a download?

If not please describe which version you used in print production, the paper quality and thickness.

 

Forgive me if these questions have been answered elsewhere, I did search but they came up empty.

 

Best wishes in advance

 

 

tb

[Feuerfalke]

Come on... frankly if the russian images in the manual is severely hindering your learning process, I would guess you're playing the wrong game. And as people have said, it would be just as unfair to have english cockpit images to the people who play with the russian cockpit.

 

Not all people who are interested in this game are interested to invest additional time to familiarize themselves with the manual in coordination with the ingame cockpit.

 

And if it is unfair to force the people with a Russian cockpit to look at an English cockpit, how can it be fair to make a player with an English cockpit look at the Russian manual?

 

I can't believe you are building on the "realism"-argument with this, while you have English text and radio-coms, a completely translated ABRIS, etc. Not even daring to speak of other compromises that were made to make the game accessable for the western world and less pro-sim players, like the game-mode for example. Or other sims that would be vital for a realistic sim.

 

Using realism for the manual is pettyfoggery in an area that is not even visible in the game, thus does not lower realism for those not wanting it. Even if we get a full English manual, that won't heart the selfpadding realism-loving Russian-cockpit users. :smilewink:

[Prophet]

I don't expect them to release the updated manual in PDF. I would love to see it so I could get it in color.

[Mapi]

From my point of view, its not mixing and matching anything. This a simulation of the KA-50. The real KA-50 has a cockpit in Russian. There is no KA-50 that has an English cockpit. A "simulation" of a KA-50 with an English cockpit is not a simulation at all, as the aircraft it purports to simulate does not exist (and in all likelihood will never exist).

 

I see learning the Russian cockpit as no different than learning the other aspects of the real helo, such as the avionics, flight model, start procedures etc. If someone is not willing to invest the time to learn each of those things, then there are "assists" like easy avionics, easy flight model and the English cockpit...

 

 

So - i hope YOU USE the RU MANUALS ( text in ru!) and have fun. Hey it is a game and not real heheh

[Acedy]

Sorry twobells, I merged your new thread into this one, we already have more than enough threads about the printed manual. :)

[Acedy]

Now I have heard that the new manual contains at least five new chapters, is this true and if so what does it cover?

 

You can view the table of content of the expanded print manual here:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=39994

[815TooCooL]

I'm not a native English speaker myself but first thing to made me hard to read the manual was Russian cockpit images on pdf.

Actually I gave it up and stuck to training and Producer's notes movies.

Like driving car? hey, the complexity of all the switches is uncomparable.

I'm a BS fanboy but it really would be fanboish if you tell me to fly in Russian cockpit for realism and read manual with Russian labels.

[Fakum]

I guess I am one of the minoritys here,, so be it. I will say this, I had no intentions of purchasing the sim with Russian labels, so I waited for the English version, because thats the only language I know. So am i disappointed that I can not get a manual that shows the english version of the cockpit labels, of course, for those that suggest investing even more time to learn the russian text, that is your decission, and I respect that. My position is that I bearly can make enough time to learn what I need as the sim is comprehensive enough as it is with out trying to learn Russian text to boot. No disrespect intended here, just stating my position. I am as entiltled to my opinion as you are that oppose my position. If you have more time to add the learning curve to your schedule,,, lucky you. But If you try and convince me that it makes no difference, I will not agree with you, simple as that. I just want to continue to learn how to use this sim, hard copy manual would have been helpfull, especially if the cockpit text was in the only language I understand. I will have to manage without it.

[McVittees]

I WILL buy the manual from ED to support their efforts.

 

While I whole heartidly support your sentiment, I doubt ED are making any money on the manual (or very little). I think it is more for our benefit than anytrhing else. If you want to support them buy a copy of the game for a friend and get them hooked on sims!:smilewink:

[McVittees]

What size paper is the manual printed on? A4 or A5 like the Lockon manual?

[wombat778]

So - i hope YOU USE the RU MANUALS ( text in ru!) and have fun. Hey it is a game and not real heheh

 

Eh, that's a rather silly thing to say. The manual is not what's being simulated. Its the aircraft that's being simulated. The purpose of the English manual is simply to familiarize the English speaking player with the Russian aircraft. The purpose of the Russian manual is to familiarize a Russian speaker with the Russian aircraft. These are game manuals, not the actual flight manuals for the aircraft. What possible realism goal would an English speaking player using the Russian game manual serve? None. In contrast, learning the Russian cockpit has a definite realism goal, which is that it is learning the aircraft as it actually exists.

 

Obviously different people have different perceptions on realism and the right balance between realism and accessibility, and that is fine. For me personally, I find that the best combination is the Russian cockpit, Russian ABRIS, Russian comms, and English subtitles.