Thoughts on the new flight model changes?

[Poptart]

I'm still downloading but has anyone tested the new flight model changes? Particularly the high AOA and PA mode for carrier landings?

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/2e25949d76e12cdc0862b99a0e41f0ca/

[sigfan86]

So far i love the changes. 

Things I've noticed:

1. During BFM you can really bleed speed to get high AOA shots off. The tradeoff is once you bleed speed down to 250-260kts, you really have put yourself at risk of getting too slow. And is hard to get it back above 280 without disengaging.

2. The aircraft seems to hold speed better in turns IF you stay aware of your energy state and not yank on the stick.

 

3. During landing i did not notice the ballooning when turning down wind and setting flaps to full and gear down

4. flaps to full and coming over the ramp on roosevelt i did not notice the floating effect the previous FM had.

[Lace]

Agree with the points above.  Though not tried any BFM yet.  Very noticeable that there are no big trim changes required when changing configuration.  Managed a couple of decent traps despite having not flown it in a while.

Overall very positive I think.

[Ogata_Rina]

apart from what sigfan86 mentioned

- It maintains on-speed AOA by itself much better now, to the point I'm not used to how good it is and over correct all the time.
- I don't find it difficult to regain speed at all if you unload a bitt, but it does bleed speed much faster than before (correct behavior).

It'll be interesting to see how it fares against mirage 2000 now, as the latter was known to be the one-circle king.

[Indianajon]

With regards BFM and bleeding speed I'm liking the new feel. It's a little closer to the tomcat in as far as much finer inputs have a bigger impact, be it bleeding or adding knots. I'm finding I'm pulling on the stick a lot less and getting a better rate in the turn.

I did notice the undercarriage feels much softer on landing though. Made me feel like one side had collapsed momentarily. 

All in all I'm really liking it. Haven't tried pulling on the paddle yet, there was a suggestion it could lead to jamming surfaces etc at high G. Would be interested to see if that's the case as I like the idea.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 hours ago, sigfan86 said:

Things I've noticed:

Pretty much that yes
I did some BFM too, and got some pretty fancy gun kills by yanking the stick back into silly AoA. Risky? Yes. Fun? Absolutely! 

[MarkyMark]

I busted my rear gear twice landing at a short FARP (Tal Siman), not sure if it happened on landing or jamming the brakes to stop in time. I could hear some skid noises on my 3rd try so I pulsed the brakes a bit and didn’t wreck my plane. 
 

oh yeah, and, and As close to a Cobra as you’ll get outside of a Flanker, and low speed high AoA passes are fun heh

Edited February 23, 2024 by MarkyMark

[MarkyMark]

5 hours ago, Indianajon said:

With regards BFM and bleeding speed I'm liking the new feel. It's a little closer to the tomcat in as far as much finer inputs have a bigger impact, be it bleeding or adding knots. I'm finding I'm pulling on the stick a lot less and getting a better rate in the turn.

I did notice the undercarriage feels much softer on landing though. Made me feel like one side had collapsed momentarily. 

All in all I'm really liking it. Haven't tried pulling on the paddle yet, there was a suggestion it could lead to jamming surfaces etc at high G. Would be interested to see if that's the case as I like the idea.

Yeah. See my post below. Something definitely got weaker. It does stay straight better rolling down the runway, and stops quicker but I busted my gear twice on a really bad, short FARP. 

[Jackjack171]

Planted one onboard TR after downloading. Got an OK 4 followed by an OK 3. I'm liking it!

[fagulha]

2 hours ago, Jackjack171 said:

Planted one onboard TR after downloading. Got an OK 4 followed by an OK 3. I'm liking it!

Only tomorrow i will do a test flight. Did the landing animation/caracteristics were improved or the landing animation is still cartoonish? the animation of the Hornet at carrier traps was clunky.

[Dragon1-1]

Is it stable in roll now? Specifically, in landing configuration.

Edited February 23, 2024 by Dragon1-1

[Joch1955]

had a chance to do some CV/airfield landings, lots of changes to assimilate:

-pitch and roll inputs are twitchier/more precise;

-you can pull much tighter turns, I have to go easier on the break turn to get the same amount of Gs;

-trim feels different. My old settings no longer work, it does not seem to require as much input as before. Trim also feels less mushy and you can feel the input right away. OTOH, the trim changes feel more abrupt. 

Not saying the changes are good or bad, but it will take some time getting used to and getting the optimum performance out of it.

 

[Slick_441]

When gear and flaps are extended it wants to pitch up even more than before. I thought this was something they "fixed"?

[Nealius]

Going gear/flaps down at 230kts I noticed pitch down moment with very minimal ballooning, which feels normal to me comparing to other aircrafts' behavior.

[Slick_441]

I get a slight pitch down initially, but that it followed by what feels like runaway trim to nose up. Need almost full forward stick to stay level at 200 kts.

[Valkyrie1-1]

15 hours ago, MarkyMark said:

I busted my rear gear twice landing

 

Welcome to the club,  I've busted the left main leg 4x in a row while coming aboard.... Always left and in isolation, never right. On speed, level and at an ever decreasing weight, to be fair I probably was a bit heavy on the first attempt but by the 4th I'd ditched all stores and was flying on fumes. Seems to be made of tooth picks now.

Edited February 23, 2024 by Valkyrie1-1

[MarkyMark]

42 minutes ago, Valkyrie1-1 said:

Welcome to the club,  I've busted the left main leg 4x in a row while coming aboard.... Always left and in isolation, never right. On speed, level and at an ever decreasing weight, to be fair I probably was a bit heavy on the first attempt but by the 4th I'd ditched all stores and was flying on fumes. Seems to be made of tooth picks now.

 

Both times, I was under 4,000 lbs fuel with only 2 AMRAAMs remaining on the cheeks, plus 2 aim9 on the wingtips. 

the 3rd time was successful, but I adjusted so my AoA was lower and my speed a bit faster, instead of slamming it down like I’m used to at that particular airfield. But, I did stop on time and before I hit the dirt at the end of the strip.  This will take some getting used to. 

[Valkyrie1-1]

Think there's something wrong to be honest.... I finally made it down in one piece then while taxing on deck I busted it again by crossing the wires at walking pace:

 null

[MarkyMark]

Mine seemed to break after landing as well, it was a rough runway. Maybe we should report / ask / flag it in the bug section? 
 

or as intended?

I don’t know 

Edited February 23, 2024 by MarkyMark

[Indianajon]

Having more of a play around and whilst I think the undercarriage feels a little soft if you land air force style, doing case recoveries on the boat or landing navy style at an airfield it feels much better to me. Kinda liking it.

Also the quality of the kneeboard in VR is amazing! Just did a Raven One mission and was able to read it off the knee rather than opening up a window. Very immersive!

[KLaFaille]

Autopilot has issues where at higher altitudes and slower speeds the plane starts rolling back and forth trying to capture the heading. It will attempt to hold the heading, start to roll slightly, then roll the other way trying to correct but overshoots the heading and this repeats with the roll increasing more and more each time. I've had it happen in CPLD, HSEL, and BALT, basically any mode that automatically trims to keep 0 degrees roll angle. The roll has been upwards of 15 degrees at it's worst. There's been a couple instances where coming out of BALT at high altitudes causes the plane to pitch wildly up and down, but that's much less common than the roll problem. A clean jet with no stores seems to stay stable, but the behavior starts even with just the asymmetry of an ATFLIR and 120C on the cheek stations.

There's something going on with fuel consumption as well. I have posted my findings in the bug report section.

Edited February 28, 2024 by KLaFaille
Added bug report

[Jackjack171]

15 hours ago, fagulha said:

Only tomorrow i will do a test flight. Did the landing animation/caracteristics were improved or the landing animation is still cartoonish? the animation of the Hornet at carrier traps was clunky.

For me, it is almost like when the Tomcat got it's "bounciness." It didn't feel like the magnet effect that I'd felt previously. Seemed like a nice and violent trap. IMHO, good job ED!

[MarkyMark]

Overall it’s amazing, it feels much more refined. And if the landing gear issue is “correct as-is”, that’s fine too I just need a few lessons from wags or something to help document what’s changed so I can adjust my method.

 

been doing it a certain way for a long time so it’s a bit tricky 

[wilbur81]

I finally had a chance to play around with the new FM today. As everyone has said, the low speed, higher AoA capability has certainly improved. However, it does appear to me that there's  been a fairly significant reduction in the Hornet's instantaneous and (especially noticeable) sustained turn rates. Before the update, if you kept your speed up between 350 an 400 kts, you could maintain a good rate (19-20ish deg. per sec.) without too much bleed. Now in 2.9.3, you cannot maintain airspeed if you initiate a turn at or below 400kts (any altitude) without major bleed down...and I'm talking no stores, in full AB, with only 55-60% back-stick deflection and roughly only 65-70% of max allowable G. I will post tracks tracks when I get a chance. I'm not saying this is wrong necessarily... but the new FM definitely appears to suffer more in ITR and STR than it did before. I'm also fiddling around with why, at lower weights and optimal airspeeds for higher sustained G's between 400 and 500 kts, the FCS-indicated available G cannot be sustained as it did before? ...but I'll obviously have to post some tracks.... I'm sure, overall, we've made a step closer to reality.

[maxTRX]

I don't know what's going on... do we have different Hornet builds floating around or what?

After having read reports about landing gear failing and lower turn rates I hopped in for a quick test.  Landing gear first - T/O weight 46.5k lbs (8xMk83s) ,  flipped her around without raising gear or flaps,  flaps to full, slammed it on the runway at over 1100f/m descent rate, bounced back and dropped again... not a scratch.

As far as turning and burning, I didn't see any major issues,  (I'll post a vid later... of course )

Touch and go's (or bolters) still the same though

Edited February 24, 2024 by oldcrusty